From herlo1 at gmail.com Fri May 1 13:10:37 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Fri May 1 13:10:41 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Utah Open Source Events for May 2009 Message-ID: The Utah Open Source Foundation, in its goal to promote Open Source throughout Utah and beyond, is proud to promote the following events. These events are generally related to Open Source and Technology in Utah. If your event is not listed below, please contact clint@utos.org to get it added. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Utah Technology Community Announcements Utah Open Source 2009 conference dates / venue / theme - http://2009.utosc.com If you have announcements or events that do not happen on a regular monthly basis which you would like included, please contact clint@utos.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Upcoming Activities for May 2009 Sat, May 9th, 12pm Utah CodeAway Link: http://codeaway.org/ Where: Rocky Mountain Pizza Company, 3977 Wasatch Boulevard, Holladay, Utah 84124 Contact: Laura Moncur, laura @ moncur.biz Sat, May 9, 6pm ? 8pm Ubuntu-Utah Meeting Link: http://utah.ubuntu-us.org Where: University of Utah - Merrill Engineering Building (MEB) Comp-Sci Labs Rm 2555 Contact: Aaron Toponce, aarontoponce@ gmail.com Wed, May 13, 11:30pm ? 1:00pm SLLUG: Daytime SIG Meeting Where: Salt Lake Public Library - Conference Room A Lower Level Contact: Clint Savage, herlo1 @gmail.com Wed, May 13, 7:30pm ? 9:00pm Provo Linux Users Group Link: http://plug.org Where: Omniture Contact: Ryan Simpkins, simpkins.ryan @gmail.com Thu, May 14, 6pm ? 9pm Utah Mobile Developers Group Where: STG Dev Center, 555 South 300 East, Salt Lake City, Utah Contact: Glen Lewis, glen @ glenlewis.com Thu, May 14, 7:00pm ? 8:30pm Utah Python User Group Meeting Link: http://utahpython.org Topic: GUI Toolkit Extravaganza Where: University of Utah, Emma Eccles Jones Medical Research Building, Room 1200 Contact: Dave, tonedevf AT gmail.com Wed, May 20, 7:10pm ? 8:40pm Salt Lake Linux User Group (SLLUG) Link: http://sllug.org Where: University of Utah, Warnock Engineering Building (WEB) room 101/103 (Previously known as EMCB) Contact: Marc Christensen marc aT mecworks.com Thu, May 21, 6pm ? 9pm Utah Java User's Group (ujug.org) Link: http://ujug.org Where: SelectHealth (IHC), 4646 West Lake Park Blvd., West Valley City Contact: Chris Maki, chrismaki AT me.com Thu, May 21, 7:00pm ? 8:30pm Utah PHP User Group (UPHPU) Topic: Security + PHP by Erik Johnson Link: http://uphpu.org Where: Bill Good Marketing, Draper, Utah Contact: Victor Villa, vvilla @ gmail.com Tue, May 26, 6:30pm ? 8:00pm SLC Ruby (slc.rb) Link: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/urug Where: Neumont University Room #300 Contact: Jake Mallory, tinomen @gmail.com Tue, April 28, 7:30pm - 9:00pm Ogden Area Linux User Group Link: http://oalug.com Where: Weber County Main Library, Board Room Contact: Seth House, whiteinge@ gmail.com Thu, May 28, 8:00am ? 9:30am CTO Breakfast Link: http://www.windley.com/cto_forum Where: Novell Cafeteria Contact: Phil Windley, phil At windley.org Thu, May 28, 6pm ? 8pm Logan Dev Group Where: Room 208 (Faculty Seminar Lounge), Merrill-Cazier Library, Utah State University, Logan, UT Contact: Matthew Reinbold, matthew.reinbold At voxpopdesign.com Fri, May 29, 12:30pm ? 2pm UTOS/UPHPU Geek Lunch Link: http://utos.org/geek-lunch Contact: Victor Villa, vvilla AT gmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Each of the events below was pulled from the Utah Tech Events calendar, feel free to subscribe by clicking the link below (or adding the following feed to your calendaring program) Utah Tech Events Calendar - Google Calendar: http://sn.im/ute-calendar Utah Tech Events Calendar - iCal Feed: http://sn.im/ute-calendar-ics Utah Open Source Foundation also regularly records Local User Group (LUG) meetings throughout the state. Feel free to check out our podcasts and live streaming schedules. Utah Open Source Podcasts - http://podcast.utos.org From remo at italy1.com Sat May 2 12:24:45 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (remo) Date: Sat May 2 12:24:57 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: OT Job opportunity Message-ID: I got this from my wife who works at Bridgepoint.. >Here is the Engineering job we are hoping to fill ASAP. We are specifically >looking to find someone who is able to take some of our current products, >redesign them and prepare them for manufacturing or rework. We also need to >build new products from scratch. >If anyone is interest in applying, they can send a resume to >jobs@bridgepoint.com. >Thanks! >Vonnie remo From benko.kevin at gmail.com Sat May 2 18:43:32 2009 From: benko.kevin at gmail.com (Kevin Benko) Date: Sat May 2 18:44:14 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Opinions/Suggestions Wanted on Mail {Retrieval/Delivery} Agents Message-ID: <200905021844.01130.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Greetings: I am currently using fetchmail as an MRA and procmail as an MDA. I know these tools are considered, by some, to be a bit obsolete. I have looked into other MRAs and MDAs, but the literature on it is, of course, a bit biased. Really, whose going to write/maintain an application and then state that the application is feature-poor or a pain in the &#@ to use? I am always on the lookout for the opportunity to entirely restructure, redesign, break, debug, and fix anything on our home network that is working perfectly. -- Kevin Benko You might be a Fascist if you applaud extra taxes on guns and ammunition, prohibition of sales between private parties, licenses for gun dealers, limits on the number of firearms someone can own or buy, and bans on brass knuckles, nunchucks, pen knives, big knives, pepper spray, stun guns, sword canes, or anything else that can be used to defend against a criminal. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090502/4c23b4e5/attachment.pgp From benko.kevin at gmail.com Sat May 2 18:59:12 2009 From: benko.kevin at gmail.com (Kevin Benko) Date: Sat May 2 18:59:42 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? Message-ID: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Greetings: This has happened more than once: I am in $BIGSTORE with the intent of buying a computer, since it's usually cheaper at $BIGSTORE than through system76.com. I first ask if I can get a computer without an OS, and save the Moft "tax" that the OEMs pass on. After this elicits a negative response, I ask if they are aware of Linux compatibility of the hardware. Then, sometimes, the sales person says something damn foolish: "Linux isn't compatible with very much hardware" "The only reason Linux isn't targeted by viruses is because not many people use it" Or any number of equally clueless comments that makes me want to rip my own arm off and start beating people with the wet end. Question [FINALLY]: Under what circumstances do you decide to take advantage of the opportunity to advocate for GNU+Linux? PS: I have never had the opportunity to test the following: In my opinion, if computer hardware is incompatible with Linux, then I assert that it is *broken* and will assert that I should not pay a "restocking fee". However, in 2009, Linux is compatible "out of the box" with more hardware than any other OS. -- Kevin Benko If it takes a hen-and-a-half a day-and-a-half to lay an egg-and-a-half, then how long will it take a grasshopper with a wooden leg to kick all the seeds out of a dill pickle? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090502/2da0b7e4/attachment.pgp From fyyht at punchcutter.ml1.net Sat May 2 19:42:37 2009 From: fyyht at punchcutter.ml1.net (David J Iannucci) Date: Sat May 2 19:42:39 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1241314957.18366.1313456349@webmail.messagingengine.com> > Then, sometimes, the sales person says something damn foolish: > > "The only reason Linux isn't targeted by viruses is because not many > people use it" Well, this is actually true :-) It's also true, of course, that Linux is far more secure than Windows. But if the day comes when a significant percentage of the corporate and home desktop markets is using Linux (say 25% or more), then I believe we'll begin to see more attempts on it by the black hats. > Under what circumstances do you decide to take advantage of the > opportunity to advocate for GNU+Linux? Almost never. Occasionally I'll say something to someone who I think might really benefit from it, and certainly help anyone who seeks to see the Light, but I wouldn't waste time on the type of salespeople you mention. I've learned that most people tend not to like to change what they're accustomed to and comfortable with, even if what they've got is bad for them, and making a simple change would improve their lives significantly. That's just How People Is(sm). Dave From jakea at xmission.com Sat May 2 20:04:17 2009 From: jakea at xmission.com (Jacob Albretsen) Date: Sat May 2 20:04:25 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200905022004.17288.jakea@xmission.com> On Saturday 02 May 2009, Kevin Benko wrote: > I first ask if I can get a computer without an OS, and save the Moft "tax" > that the OEMs pass on. After this elicits a negative response, I ask if > they are aware of Linux compatibility of the hardware. Prime Systems in Kaysville will sell you a computer without Windows installed. In fact, when I bought my last PC from them about 6 months ago, the sales guy told me they were getting a lot of requests for Ubuntu. I also bought a PC from them over 4 years ago with having to buy windows. They've been doing it for some time. They are a great company. Talk to Josh. Tell him I sent you. > Then, sometimes, the sales person says something damn foolish: > > "Linux isn't compatible with very much hardware" > > "The only reason Linux isn't targeted by viruses is because not many people > use it" So much like Linux fanboys like to use the properties of Windows 95/98/ME to justify why Linux is better than Windows, Windows fanboys use the properties of Linux from the same era to justify why Windows better than Linux. > Under what circumstances do you decide to take advantage of the opportunity > to advocate for GNU+Linux? Instead of just assuming that GNU / Linux / Open Source is right for someone, I first access what their needs are as well as their computer skills and desire to learn. If they are hooked on a lot of software the requires windows where a Linux solution would be more hassle for them then its worth, I'll help them get Windows set up for their needs and at the same time, sneak something like Firefox on it and tell them to try it sometime. Back when I was a fanboy and preached it was the only solution, most of the time I turned people off the idea of Linux than onto the idea. In another example, my brother started going to Weber State and needed something to write papers. He didn't care what. He had already gotten an old computer running Windows my other brother used to have. So after I uninstalled all the extra HP software that was pointless, I suggested he try Open Office. He didn't really know the difference between it and MS Office, but OO works for his needs and he is happy. So the end game for me is fullfilling my friends / family's needs rather than forcing something down their throat. Often times they come back and ask "How did you get such and such to work on your system" and it opens up Linux opportunities. - Jake From u235sentinel at gmail.com Sat May 2 20:37:17 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Sat May 2 20:37:22 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49FD035D.2060100@gmail.com> Kevin Benko wrote: > > Then, sometimes, the sales person says something damn foolish: > > "Linux isn't compatible with very much hardware" > I haven't seen that problem in a while. In fact my Asus P5Q motherboard came with a driver disk that has all the linux drivers on it. How about that now :-) > "The only reason Linux isn't targeted by viruses is because not many people > use it" > Rubbish. People target Wintendow because it's all over the place an it's easy pickings. But for some reason leave the worlds most popular web server alone and pick on poor #2 IIS. I'm talking about Apache. It's running around 60% of the web sites you see out there. And yet people go after IIS.. How about that :-) > Under what circumstances do you decide to take advantage of the opportunity > to advocate for GNU+Linux? > I look at the problem and the person using it. Lately I've been handing out more Ubuntu CD's than ever. Simply because people are sick of where Micro$oft is going. Still in some cases recently I've been telling people that Windows is the better solution for what they are trying to do. Yeah I'm a heretic. But I've been hearing that for the last few years at work anyway... I'm used to it now ;-) > PS: I have never had the opportunity to test the following: In my opinion, > if computer hardware is incompatible with Linux, then I assert that it is > *broken* and will assert that I should not pay a "restocking fee". > However, in 2009, Linux is compatible "out of the box" with more hardware > than any other OS People ask me a lot of questions about how I'm running Windows stuff under Linux using WINE. I've got it nearly 100% now.. at least the software I have I should say :-) From jfriend31 at comcast.net Sat May 2 22:08:13 2009 From: jfriend31 at comcast.net (Jack B. Friend) Date: Sat May 2 22:08:21 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <200905022004.17288.jakea@xmission.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <200905022004.17288.jakea@xmission.com> Message-ID: <1241323693.12292.4.camel@jack-desktop> Software and More (which may no longer exist) used to sell computers with or without OS. one could buy pieces or the whole thing as desired. i am sure there are other such companies all over the area. jack On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 20:04 -0600, Jacob Albretsen wrote: > On Saturday 02 May 2009, Kevin Benko wrote: > > > I first ask if I can get a computer without an OS, and save the Moft "tax" > > that the OEMs pass on. After this elicits a negative response, I ask if > > they are aware of Linux compatibility of the hardware. > > Prime Systems in Kaysville will sell you a computer without Windows installed. > In fact, when I bought my last PC from them about 6 months ago, the sales guy > told me they were getting a lot of requests for Ubuntu. I also bought a PC > from them over 4 years ago with having to buy windows. They've been doing it > for some time. They are a great company. Talk to Josh. Tell him I sent > you. > > > Then, sometimes, the sales person says something damn foolish: > > > > "Linux isn't compatible with very much hardware" > > > > "The only reason Linux isn't targeted by viruses is because not many people > > use it" > > So much like Linux fanboys like to use the properties of Windows 95/98/ME to > justify why Linux is better than Windows, Windows fanboys use the properties > of Linux from the same era to justify why Windows better than Linux. > > > Under what circumstances do you decide to take advantage of the opportunity > > to advocate for GNU+Linux? > > Instead of just assuming that GNU / Linux / Open Source is right for someone, > I first access what their needs are as well as their computer skills and > desire to learn. If they are hooked on a lot of software the requires > windows where a Linux solution would be more hassle for them then its worth, > I'll help them get Windows set up for their needs and at the same time, sneak > something like Firefox on it and tell them to try it sometime. > > Back when I was a fanboy and preached it was the only solution, most of the > time I turned people off the idea of Linux than onto the idea. > > In another example, my brother started going to Weber State and needed > something to write papers. He didn't care what. He had already gotten an > old computer running Windows my other brother used to have. So after I > uninstalled all the extra HP software that was pointless, I suggested he try > Open Office. He didn't really know the difference between it and MS Office, > but OO works for his needs and he is happy. > > So the end game for me is fullfilling my friends / family's needs rather than > forcing something down their throat. Often times they come back and ask "How > did you get such and such to work on your system" and it opens up Linux > opportunities. > > - Jake > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members From jfriend31 at comcast.net Sat May 2 22:10:21 2009 From: jfriend31 at comcast.net (Jack B. Friend) Date: Sat May 2 22:10:29 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <49FD035D.2060100@gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <49FD035D.2060100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1241323821.12292.6.camel@jack-desktop> did you have to re-install the Windows software with Wine? how does one know whether the software he desires to use will run under Wine? jack On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 20:37 -0600, u235sentinel wrote: > Kevin Benko wrote: > > > > Then, sometimes, the sales person says something damn foolish: > > > > "Linux isn't compatible with very much hardware" > > > I haven't seen that problem in a while. In fact my Asus P5Q motherboard > came with a driver disk that has all the linux drivers on it. How about > that now :-) > > > "The only reason Linux isn't targeted by viruses is because not many people > > use it" > > > > Rubbish. People target Wintendow because it's all over the place an > it's easy pickings. But for some reason leave the worlds most popular > web server alone and pick on poor #2 IIS. I'm talking about Apache. > It's running around 60% of the web sites you see out there. And yet > people go after IIS.. How about that :-) > > Under what circumstances do you decide to take advantage of the opportunity > > to advocate for GNU+Linux? > > > > I look at the problem and the person using it. Lately I've been handing > out more Ubuntu CD's than ever. Simply because people are sick of where > Micro$oft is going. Still in some cases recently I've been telling > people that Windows is the better solution for what they are trying to > do. Yeah I'm a heretic. But I've been hearing that for the last few > years at work anyway... I'm used to it now ;-) > > PS: I have never had the opportunity to test the following: In my opinion, > > if computer hardware is incompatible with Linux, then I assert that it is > > *broken* and will assert that I should not pay a "restocking fee". > > However, in 2009, Linux is compatible "out of the box" with more hardware > > than any other OS > People ask me a lot of questions about how I'm running Windows stuff > under Linux using WINE. I've got it nearly 100% now.. at least the > software I have I should say :-) > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Sat May 2 22:54:08 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Sat May 2 22:54:13 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <1241323821.12292.6.camel@jack-desktop> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <49FD035D.2060100@gmail.com> <1241323821.12292.6.camel@jack-desktop> Message-ID: software and more is certainly still around. On 5/2/09, Jack B. Friend wrote: > did you have to re-install the Windows software with Wine? how does one > know whether the software he desires to use will run under Wine? > > jack > > On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 20:37 -0600, u235sentinel wrote: >> Kevin Benko wrote: >> > >> > Then, sometimes, the sales person says something damn foolish: >> > >> > "Linux isn't compatible with very much hardware" >> > >> I haven't seen that problem in a while. In fact my Asus P5Q motherboard >> came with a driver disk that has all the linux drivers on it. How about >> that now :-) >> >> > "The only reason Linux isn't targeted by viruses is because not many >> > people >> > use it" >> > >> >> Rubbish. People target Wintendow because it's all over the place an >> it's easy pickings. But for some reason leave the worlds most popular >> web server alone and pick on poor #2 IIS. I'm talking about Apache. >> It's running around 60% of the web sites you see out there. And yet >> people go after IIS.. How about that :-) >> > Under what circumstances do you decide to take advantage of the >> > opportunity >> > to advocate for GNU+Linux? >> > >> >> I look at the problem and the person using it. Lately I've been handing >> out more Ubuntu CD's than ever. Simply because people are sick of where >> Micro$oft is going. Still in some cases recently I've been telling >> people that Windows is the better solution for what they are trying to >> do. Yeah I'm a heretic. But I've been hearing that for the last few >> years at work anyway... I'm used to it now ;-) >> > PS: I have never had the opportunity to test the following: In my >> > opinion, >> > if computer hardware is incompatible with Linux, then I assert that it >> > is >> > *broken* and will assert that I should not pay a "restocking fee". >> > However, in 2009, Linux is compatible "out of the box" with more >> > hardware >> > than any other OS >> People ask me a lot of questions about how I'm running Windows stuff >> under Linux using WINE. I've got it nearly 100% now.. at least the >> software I have I should say :-) >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com Sat May 2 23:24:19 2009 From: justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com (Justin Brinkerhoff) Date: Sat May 2 23:24:22 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <49FD035D.2060100@gmail.com> <1241323821.12292.6.camel@jack-desktop> Message-ID: <2f932a4a0905022224q11ee054fx2967600b7ac7509@mail.gmail.com> Well, like a couple others said already, Linux just isn't targeted for viruses, only because it's not as popular. Just because you use some variance of UNIX, doesn't mean you're blackhat proof. People will write viruses, trojans, worms, etc... just to raise hell over the internet, they can care less what OS it is. And the sad part is, any Linux distro out of the box, is open to so many attacks it's not even funny. It's your and my job to make sure its secured so it's not vulnerable to script kiddies and the sort. As far as hardware compatability is concerned, that really isn't a problem these days. It all depends on what kind of hardware your dealing with too. Things like video cards, sound cards, HBA's, NIC's, etc... are practically 100% compatible these days with a few exceptions give or take. And where there isn't a driver, just write one yourself. All UNIX hardware drivers are wrote in C, so it's not too bad. I also used to be a fanboy, but like the other guy said, I really assess their needs, and determine what would be the best solution. I remember trying to get my grandma using Fedora Core once. Let's just say that didn't last long... I ended up installing Windows 2000 on it. I can vouch for Prime Systems also. I work in IT for Stevens Henager College on the corporate side, and we bought quite a few systems from them in the past. They were nice beefy 1st generation Xeon tower servers. We have a contract with HP now, since our change in management, but they are a good company. On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Christian Horne wrote: > software and more is certainly still around. > > On 5/2/09, Jack B. Friend wrote: >> did you have to re-install the Windows software with Wine? how does one >> know whether the software he desires to use will run under Wine? >> >> jack >> >> On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 20:37 -0600, u235sentinel wrote: >>> Kevin Benko wrote: >>> > >>> > Then, sometimes, the sales person says something damn foolish: >>> > >>> > "Linux isn't compatible with very much hardware" >>> > >>> I haven't seen that problem in a while. ?In fact my Asus P5Q motherboard >>> came with a driver disk that has all the linux drivers on it. ?How about >>> that now :-) >>> >>> > "The only reason Linux isn't targeted by viruses is because not many >>> > people >>> > use it" >>> > >>> >>> Rubbish. ?People target Wintendow because it's all over the place an >>> it's easy pickings. ?But for some reason leave the worlds most popular >>> web server alone and pick on poor #2 IIS. ?I'm talking about Apache. >>> It's running around 60% of the web sites you see out there. ?And yet >>> people go after IIS.. How about that :-) >>> > Under what circumstances do you decide to take advantage of the >>> > opportunity >>> > to advocate for GNU+Linux? >>> > >>> >>> I look at the problem and the person using it. ?Lately I've been handing >>> out more Ubuntu CD's than ever. ?Simply because people are sick of where >>> Micro$oft is going. ?Still in some cases recently I've been telling >>> people that Windows is the better solution for what they are trying to >>> do. ?Yeah I'm a heretic. ?But I've been hearing that for the last few >>> years at work anyway... I'm used to it now ;-) >>> > PS: I have never had the opportunity to test the following: In my >>> > opinion, >>> > if computer hardware is incompatible with Linux, then I assert that it >>> > is >>> > *broken* and will assert that I should not pay a "restocking fee". >>> > However, in 2009, Linux is compatible "out of the box" with more >>> > hardware >>> > than any other OS >>> People ask me a lot of questions about how I'm running Windows stuff >>> under Linux using WINE. ?I've got it nearly 100% now.. at least the >>> software I have I should say :-) >>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >>> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >>> sllug-members@sllug.org >>> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> > > > -- > the blendmaster > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From jfriend31 at comcast.net Sat May 2 23:30:51 2009 From: jfriend31 at comcast.net (Jack B. Friend) Date: Sat May 2 23:30:53 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <49FD035D.2060100@gmail.com> <1241323821.12292.6.camel@jack-desktop> Message-ID: <1241328651.14624.2.camel@jack-desktop> good! jack On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 22:54 -0600, Christian Horne wrote: > software and more is certainly still around. > > On 5/2/09, Jack B. Friend wrote: > > did you have to re-install the Windows software with Wine? how does one > > know whether the software he desires to use will run under Wine? > > > > jack > > > > On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 20:37 -0600, u235sentinel wrote: > >> Kevin Benko wrote: > >> > > >> > Then, sometimes, the sales person says something damn foolish: > >> > > >> > "Linux isn't compatible with very much hardware" > >> > > >> I haven't seen that problem in a while. In fact my Asus P5Q motherboard > >> came with a driver disk that has all the linux drivers on it. How about > >> that now :-) > >> > >> > "The only reason Linux isn't targeted by viruses is because not many > >> > people > >> > use it" > >> > > >> > >> Rubbish. People target Wintendow because it's all over the place an > >> it's easy pickings. But for some reason leave the worlds most popular > >> web server alone and pick on poor #2 IIS. I'm talking about Apache. > >> It's running around 60% of the web sites you see out there. And yet > >> people go after IIS.. How about that :-) > >> > Under what circumstances do you decide to take advantage of the > >> > opportunity > >> > to advocate for GNU+Linux? > >> > > >> > >> I look at the problem and the person using it. Lately I've been handing > >> out more Ubuntu CD's than ever. Simply because people are sick of where > >> Micro$oft is going. Still in some cases recently I've been telling > >> people that Windows is the better solution for what they are trying to > >> do. Yeah I'm a heretic. But I've been hearing that for the last few > >> years at work anyway... I'm used to it now ;-) > >> > PS: I have never had the opportunity to test the following: In my > >> > opinion, > >> > if computer hardware is incompatible with Linux, then I assert that it > >> > is > >> > *broken* and will assert that I should not pay a "restocking fee". > >> > However, in 2009, Linux is compatible "out of the box" with more > >> > hardware > >> > than any other OS > >> People ask me a lot of questions about how I'm running Windows stuff > >> under Linux using WINE. I've got it nearly 100% now.. at least the > >> software I have I should say :-) > >> ______________________________________________________________________ > >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > >> sllug-members@sllug.org > >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > > From u235sentinel at gmail.com Sat May 2 23:32:59 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Sat May 2 23:33:04 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <1241323821.12292.6.camel@jack-desktop> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <49FD035D.2060100@gmail.com> <1241323821.12292.6.camel@jack-desktop> Message-ID: <49FD2C8B.7060704@gmail.com> Jack B. Friend wrote: > did you have to re-install the Windows software with Wine? how does one > know whether the software he desires to use will run under Wine? > > > winehq.com is my best friend :-) I do have to install the software under WINE however I don't purchase Windows software unless it's at least Gold or Platinum rated. Just isn't worth the hassle otherwise :D From jfriend31 at comcast.net Sat May 2 23:37:11 2009 From: jfriend31 at comcast.net (Jack B. Friend) Date: Sat May 2 23:37:18 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <49FD2C8B.7060704@gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <49FD035D.2060100@gmail.com> <1241323821.12292.6.camel@jack-desktop> <49FD2C8B.7060704@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1241329031.14624.7.camel@jack-desktop> thank you. i will keep that in mind. i only have a couple pieces of Windows software that are really important to me. both are ham radio related. sadly i can find nothing that matches them for any other OS than Windows. jack On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 23:32 -0600, u235sentinel wrote: > Jack B. Friend wrote: > > did you have to re-install the Windows software with Wine? how does one > > know whether the software he desires to use will run under Wine? > > > > > > > winehq.com is my best friend :-) > > I do have to install the software under WINE however I don't purchase > Windows software unless it's at least Gold or Platinum rated. > > Just isn't worth the hassle otherwise :D > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members From u235sentinel at gmail.com Sat May 2 23:43:13 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Sat May 2 23:43:21 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <1241329031.14624.7.camel@jack-desktop> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <49FD035D.2060100@gmail.com> <1241323821.12292.6.camel@jack-desktop> <49FD2C8B.7060704@gmail.com> <1241329031.14624.7.camel@jack-desktop> Message-ID: <49FD2EF1.3040100@gmail.com> Jack B. Friend wrote: > thank you. i will keep that in mind. i only have a couple pieces of > Windows software that are really important to me. both are ham radio > related. sadly i can find nothing that matches them for any other OS > than Windows. > jack Whats the name of the software? I can poke around winehq and quickly see what it says. From jfriend31 at comcast.net Sat May 2 23:47:10 2009 From: jfriend31 at comcast.net (Jack B. Friend) Date: Sat May 2 23:47:16 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <49FD2EF1.3040100@gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <49FD035D.2060100@gmail.com> <1241323821.12292.6.camel@jack-desktop> <49FD2C8B.7060704@gmail.com> <1241329031.14624.7.camel@jack-desktop> <49FD2EF1.3040100@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1241329630.15190.0.camel@jack-desktop> LOGic8 and MixW2. i found no reference to either of them on the website. thanks, jack On Sat, 2009-05-02 at 23:43 -0600, u235sentinel wrote: > Jack B. Friend wrote: > > thank you. i will keep that in mind. i only have a couple pieces of > > Windows software that are really important to me. both are ham radio > > related. sadly i can find nothing that matches them for any other OS > > than Windows. > > jack > Whats the name of the software? I can poke around winehq and quickly > see what it says. > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members From u235sentinel at gmail.com Sun May 3 00:20:41 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Sun May 3 00:21:05 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <1241329630.15190.0.camel@jack-desktop> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <49FD035D.2060100@gmail.com> <1241323821.12292.6.camel@jack-desktop> <49FD2C8B.7060704@gmail.com> <1241329031.14624.7.camel@jack-desktop> <49FD2EF1.3040100@gmail.com> <1241329630.15190.0.camel@jack-desktop> Message-ID: <49FD37B9.2000801@gmail.com> Jack B. Friend wrote: > LOGic8 and MixW2. i found no reference to either of them on the website. > thanks, > Ok. That being the case there is a chance it may work. If it doesn't work with the stable release then try one of the development ones. Currently I'm running 1.1.20 (the latest development version) with stuff like Counterstrike Source and Team Fortress 2. My fps is unbelievably high now compared to the stable release and now I have a few people calling me a hacker. My game play has improved big time but I still can't get the stupid mic to work with WINE games :/ Good Luck! From jfriend31 at comcast.net Sun May 3 06:42:10 2009 From: jfriend31 at comcast.net (Jack B. Friend) Date: Sun May 3 06:42:18 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <49FD37B9.2000801@gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <49FD035D.2060100@gmail.com> <1241323821.12292.6.camel@jack-desktop> <49FD2C8B.7060704@gmail.com> <1241329031.14624.7.camel@jack-desktop> <49FD2EF1.3040100@gmail.com> <1241329630.15190.0.camel@jack-desktop> <49FD37B9.2000801@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1241354530.23497.1.camel@jack-desktop> thank you i will do just that! i am ready to say goodbye to MSN! jack On Sun, 2009-05-03 at 00:20 -0600, u235sentinel wrote: > Jack B. Friend wrote: > > LOGic8 and MixW2. i found no reference to either of them on the website. > > thanks, > > > Ok. That being the case there is a chance it may work. If it doesn't > work with the stable release then try one of the development ones. > > Currently I'm running 1.1.20 (the latest development version) with stuff > like Counterstrike Source and Team Fortress 2. My fps is unbelievably > high now compared to the stable release and now I have a few people > calling me a hacker. My game play has improved big time but I still > can't get the stupid mic to work with WINE games :/ > > Good Luck! > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members From fyyht at punchcutter.ml1.net Sun May 3 11:43:40 2009 From: fyyht at punchcutter.ml1.net (David J Iannucci) Date: Sun May 3 11:43:42 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Wine (was Re: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities?) In-Reply-To: <49FD2C8B.7060704@gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <49FD035D.2060100@gmail.com><1241323821.12292.6.camel@jack-desktop> <49FD2C8B.7060704@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1241372620.13059.1313518255@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Sat, 02 May 2009, "u235sentinel" wrote: > winehq.com is my best friend :-) This thread seems to have devolved into a private conversation, so in an attempt to bring it back.... Have you tried CrossOver Linux? If so, any thoughts about it, compared to straight Wine? I picked up a reg code for it when they were giving it away free last fall, and then thought "geez, there's really nothing I really need to run on it", so I forgot about it and failed to cash in the reg code and get the software! Now I'm regretting it. I still don't have any Windows s/w I need to run, just regretting the missed chance :-) Dave From u235sentinel at gmail.com Sun May 3 12:05:07 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Sun May 3 12:05:12 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Wine (was Re: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities?) In-Reply-To: <1241372620.13059.1313518255@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <49FD035D.2060100@gmail.com><1241323821.12292.6.camel@jack-desktop> <49FD2C8B.7060704@gmail.com> <1241372620.13059.1313518255@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <49FDDCD3.8040107@gmail.com> David J Iannucci wrote: > On Sat, 02 May 2009, "u235sentinel" wrote: > >> winehq.com is my best friend :-) >> > > This thread seems to have devolved into a private conversation, so in > an attempt to bring it back.... > Perhaps :-) > Have you tried CrossOver Linux? If so, any thoughts about it, compared > to straight Wine? > > I picked up a reg code for it when they were giving it away free last > fall, and then thought "geez, there's really nothing I really need to > run on it", so I forgot about it and failed to cash in the reg code and > get the software! Now I'm regretting it. I still don't have any > Windows s/w I need to run, just regretting the missed chance :-) > > I did. I have both their Pro and Games variety. I did run in to some problems running say Counterstrike Source (for example). Seems it would drop out of the game back to my desktop with little explanation. After messing with a couple other games (TF2 and Warcraft III) I wasn't able to get it to behave properly. After messing with the unstable versions of WINE I discovered most of my software ran far better. Not perfect but definitely better. From bob.l.lewis at gmail.com Sun May 3 12:07:00 2009 From: bob.l.lewis at gmail.com (Robert Lewis) Date: Sun May 3 12:07:12 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Wine (was Re: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities?) In-Reply-To: <1241372620.13059.1313518255@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <49FD035D.2060100@gmail.com> <1241323821.12292.6.camel@jack-desktop> <49FD2C8B.7060704@gmail.com> <1241372620.13059.1313518255@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <86d2b63e0905031107w2b77322eif9d7d235f904d903@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, David J Iannucci wrote: > On Sat, 02 May 2009, "u235sentinel" wrote: > > winehq.com is my best friend :-) > > This thread seems to have devolved into a private conversation, so in > an attempt to bring it back.... > > Have you tried CrossOver Linux? If so, any thoughts about it, compared > to straight Wine? > > I picked up a reg code for it when they were giving it away free last > fall, and then thought "geez, there's really nothing I really need to > run on it", so I forgot about it and failed to cash in the reg code and > get the software! Now I'm regretting it. I still don't have any > Windows s/w I need to run, just regretting the missed chance :-) > > Dave > ___________________________________ I use crossloop quite often with SUSE 11.1 under wine. It works very well except upon exit usually the process doesn't die requiring me to kill it manually before I can bring up crossloop for another session. In my view crossloop is a well designed and thought out product. I am hopeful in time that they will come out with a native Linux client. Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090503/7bb131e3/attachment.htm From benko.kevin at gmail.com Sun May 3 18:54:55 2009 From: benko.kevin at gmail.com (Kevin Benko) Date: Sun May 3 18:55:40 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200905031855.13476.benko.kevin@gmail.com> On Saturday 02 May 2009 18:59:12 Kevin Benko wrote: > Greetings: [snip] But wouldn't one expect a salesperson at $BIGSTORE, specifically in the computer hardware section, to be aware of hardware interoperability with the Linux kernel? This was a rhetorical question, since far too many so-called salespeople don't seem to be actually wanting to sell the stuff enough to answer what is becoming a more common question that more people have the potential to asking. In my opinion, the average Joe Bagof Donuts probably doesn't want, nor need, to hear GNU+Linux advocacy. However, the people working with the hardware, which, unfortunately, includes salespeople, need to be aware and cognizant of the fact that more people are opting for GNU+Linux. The salespeople who ignore this fact need to be prodded with the clue-tip of advocacy, or the clue-by-four of their own inadequacy as a salesperson who is probably much more suited to potato farming. Or something like that. -- Kevin Benko "Cease this detestable boo-hooing!" -- My Fair Lady -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090503/79b6fb40/attachment.pgp From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Sun May 3 21:06:52 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Sun May 3 21:07:11 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <200905031855.13476.benko.kevin@gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <200905031855.13476.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49FE5BCC.3080608@ridgecrestherbals.com> Kevin Benko wrote: > On Saturday 02 May 2009 18:59:12 Kevin Benko wrote: > In my opinion, the average Joe Bagof Donuts probably doesn't want, nor > need, to hear GNU+Linux advocacy. However, the people working with the > hardware, which, unfortunately, includes salespeople, need to be aware and > cognizant of the fact that more people are opting for GNU+Linux. The > salespeople who ignore this fact need to be prodded with the clue-tip of > advocacy, or the clue-by-four of their own inadequacy as a salesperson who > is probably much more suited to potato farming. My own "advocacy" is limited to asking if they know whether Linux will run on it or not. I often tell them that I only use Linux (at least on MY PERSONAL desktop), so if it won't run Linux, its no earthly good to me. And I also ask if I can return it if it doesn't work (i.e. meet my needs). Most stores allow this, and if they won't, I doubt I'll shop there much. I can always take it home, test it with a liveCD, and return it pretty much intact if it doesn't run. -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From seth at eseth.com Sun May 3 21:33:31 2009 From: seth at eseth.com (Seth House) Date: Sun May 3 22:24:29 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Wine (was Re: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities?) In-Reply-To: <1241372620.13059.1313518255@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <49FD035D.2060100@gmail.com> <1241323821.12292.6.camel@jack-desktop> <49FD2C8B.7060704@gmail.com> <1241372620.13059.1313518255@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 11:43, David J Iannucci wrote: > Have you tried CrossOver Linux? ?If so, any thoughts about it, compared > to straight Wine? I think CrossOver is a great buy even though it isn't necessary. You can run anything in Wine that you can run in CrossOver. The main difference is you (often) have to pour over the user comments in Wine's AppDB [1] to know what little tweaks to make for a given app. Whereas CrossOver has those tweaks pre-set for any app in their "supported" list [2], and they test each release for regressions against all those apps. Also their GUI is pretty nice. The CrossOver "bottles" are (mostly) WINEPREFIXes so you can use regular Wine with an app you've installed via CrossOver with just WINEPREFIX=$HOME/.cxgames/BOTTLENAME wine "c:\Path\To.exe". I tried CrossOver during their Lame Duck Challenge too, and I'm happy I did. Buying CrossOver is a great way to support the Wine project (short of directly supporting the Wine project, I suppose) since they give back to the project and employ several of the core devs. :) .. [1] http://appdb.winehq.org/ .. [2] http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name From sdmorrey at gmail.com Mon May 4 09:14:52 2009 From: sdmorrey at gmail.com (Steven Morrey) Date: Mon May 4 09:14:55 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: OT Job opportunity In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just curious but am I missing something here? There is a job oddly devoid of any relevant description including but not limited to requirements, or even field of expertise. On Sat, May 2, 2009 at 12:24 PM, remo wrote: > > I got this from my wife who works at Bridgepoint.. > > >Here is the Engineering job we are hoping to fill ASAP. We are > specifically > >looking to find someone who is able to take some of our current products, > >redesign them and prepare them for manufacturing or rework. We also need > to > >build new products from scratch. > > >If anyone is interest in applying, they can send a resume to > >jobs@bridgepoint.com. > > >Thanks! > >Vonnie > > remo > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090504/535e51ec/attachment.htm From bwhiteley at novell.com Mon May 4 09:51:07 2009 From: bwhiteley at novell.com (Bart Whiteley) Date: Mon May 4 09:51:18 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <49FE5BCC.3080608@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <200905031855.13476.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <49FE5BCC.3080608@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <49FF0EEB.1070709@novell.com> Matt Warnock wrote: > > I can always take it home, test it with a liveCD, and return it pretty > much intact if it doesn't run. Take a liveCD with you into $BIGSTORE, and boot up the display model with the liveCD. I've done that before. From benko.kevin at gmail.com Mon May 4 11:45:55 2009 From: benko.kevin at gmail.com (Kevin Benko) Date: Mon May 4 11:46:10 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <49FF0EEB.1070709@novell.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <49FE5BCC.3080608@ridgecrestherbals.com> <49FF0EEB.1070709@novell.com> Message-ID: <200905041145.57165.benko.kevin@gmail.com> On Monday 04 May 2009 09:51:07 Bart Whiteley wrote: > Take a liveCD with you into $BIGSTORE, and boot up the display model > with the liveCD. I've done that before. I once tried to get a look at the BIOS option screens on the display computers in $BIGSTORE so I could check for a PATA/IDE compatibility setting. Management didn't take too kindly to my rebooting all their computers, even though I got the OK from one of their employees, and asked me to leave the store. -- Kevin Benko "Very funny Scotty, now beam me down my clothes..." -- Kirk From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Mon May 4 12:04:17 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Mon May 4 12:04:26 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <49FF0EEB.1070709@novell.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <200905031855.13476.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <49FE5BCC.3080608@ridgecrestherbals.com> <49FF0EEB.1070709@novell.com> Message-ID: <49FF2E21.40806@ridgecrestherbals.com> Bart Whiteley wrote: > Take a liveCD with you into $BIGSTORE, and boot up the display model > with the liveCD. I've done that before. Good idea. Better yet, keep a LiveUSB on your keychain. Then you can test proper USB boot into the bargain. Guess I better figure out how to do that with Debian and other distribs (Ubuntu makes it real easy, just pick "USB Startup Disk Creator" from the "Administration" menu). -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From unum at unum5.org Mon May 4 13:21:59 2009 From: unum at unum5.org (Kyle Waters) Date: Mon May 4 13:22:15 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <200905022004.17288.jakea@xmission.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <200905022004.17288.jakea@xmission.com> Message-ID: <49FF4057.4050409@unum5.org> Jacob Albretsen wrote: > On Saturday 02 May 2009, Kevin Benko wrote: > > >> I first ask if I can get a computer without an OS, and save the Moft "tax" >> that the OEMs pass on. After this elicits a negative response, I ask if >> they are aware of Linux compatibility of the hardware. >> > > Prime Systems in Kaysville will sell you a computer without Windows installed. > In fact, when I bought my last PC from them about 6 months ago, the sales guy > told me they were getting a lot of requests for Ubuntu. I also bought a PC > from them over 4 years ago with having to buy windows. They've been doing it > for some time. They are a great company. Talk to Josh. Tell him I sent > you. > For a while there if you went into Prime Systems in Kaysville and asked about Linux you were likely to get referred to me :) This is a really good question that I know have gone back and forth on. I'm now more likely to state that "Linux is all I use" and leave it at that. Maybe say that "I feel too limited on Windows". It tends to give people a bit of shock and let them know that there are other viable options for people, with out being too rude. Effective campaigns can and have been launched. Dell now sells Linux based desktops. The others will follow when they realize they have to. For now I suggest taking your money else where that is what speaks loudest and will bring people around. I try to be less of a jerk about telling people why their ipods suck(I buy cohan's they support oggs, and plug in like a regular flash drive). I just hope enough of us our buying these products to keep them viable. Kyle From fyyht at punchcutter.ml1.net Mon May 4 13:43:50 2009 From: fyyht at punchcutter.ml1.net (David J Iannucci) Date: Mon May 4 13:43:52 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <49FF4057.4050409@unum5.org> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com><200905022004.17288.jakea@xmission.com> <49FF4057.4050409@unum5.org> Message-ID: <1241466230.14783.1313695679@webmail.messagingengine.com> > I try to be less of a jerk about telling people why their ipods suck Oh, ipods running Rockbox don't suck that much, can be plugged in like a regular flash drive, and even support ogg-vorbis :-) http://www.rockbox.org > (I buy cohan's they support oggs, and plug in like a regular > flash drive). What's a cohan? Dave From unum at unum5.org Mon May 4 13:48:14 2009 From: unum at unum5.org (Kyle Waters) Date: Mon May 4 13:48:21 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <1241466230.14783.1313695679@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com><200905022004.17288.jakea@xmission.com> <49FF4057.4050409@unum5.org> <1241466230.14783.1313695679@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <49FF467E.10207@unum5.org> David J Iannucci wrote: > >> (I buy cohan's they support oggs, and plug in like a regular >> flash drive). >> > > What's a cohan? > > doh, I spelled it wrong again cowan iaudio http://www.jetaudio.com/ no fuss it just does what I want. Kyle From unum at unum5.org Mon May 4 13:52:37 2009 From: unum at unum5.org (Kyle Waters) Date: Mon May 4 13:52:44 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <49FF467E.10207@unum5.org> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com><200905022004.17288.jakea@xmission.com> <49FF4057.4050409@unum5.org> <1241466230.14783.1313695679@webmail.messagingengine.com> <49FF467E.10207@unum5.org> Message-ID: <49FF4785.5020906@unum5.org> Kyle Waters wrote: > David J Iannucci wrote: >> >>> (I buy cohan's they support oggs, and plug in like a regular >>> flash drive). >>> >> >> What's a cohan? >> >> > > doh, I spelled it wrong again cowan iaudio > still wrong cowon. Kyle From ewfalor at gmail.com Mon May 4 17:54:17 2009 From: ewfalor at gmail.com (Erik Falor) Date: Mon May 4 17:54:29 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <200905031855.13476.benko.kevin@gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <200905031855.13476.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090504235415.GA8895@gemini.doesntexist.org> On Sun, May 03, 2009 at 06:54:55PM -0600, Kevin Benko wrote: > On Saturday 02 May 2009 18:59:12 Kevin Benko wrote: > > Greetings: > > [snip] > > But wouldn't one expect a salesperson at $BIGSTORE, specifically in the > computer hardware section, to be aware of hardware interoperability with > the Linux kernel? > I don't know which value of $BIGSTORE you're assuming, but for all ${BIGSTORE}s I've encountered, the salespeople are as qualified to give technology advice as I am qualified to give advice on basketball. Let's face it. They're salespeople. If they were real geeks, they wouldn't have to take a job where the dresscode involved a name badge and a necktie. I can imagine that any training these folks get amounts to whatever they glean from the contents of a Windows Vista pamphlet they read in the breakroom, or whatever sit-down meeting the marketing department of $BIGOEM sponsors. At least, that's how it was when I worked one summer at $OFFICESUPPLYSTORE. I stopped asking the salespersons what he/she thinks about a particular computer when one of them referred to virtual memory as "pretend memory". Another gem was the time a salesman told me that I should buy the computer in front of me because "it has a really big hard drive, and it won't slow down even if you install a lot of video games." Thanks, I could have gotten /that/ advice from my father. For those of you who do shop for PCs at a $BIGSTORE, do you actually ask a salesperson questions, or do you walk in there with a good idea of what you want to buy? If you do ask questions, what sorts of CAPTCHA questions do you guys ask salespeople to sift the wheat from the tares? I can imagine that a question involving the words "linux" and "hardware" would elicit a predictable knee-jerk reaction along the lines of "Linux is bad, m'kay, because Ballmer says so. Why don't you watch what happens when I press Win+Tab on this Vista desktop?" I wouldn't want that guy's advice. How do you find out if the salesperson knows what he/she is talking about? -- Erik Falor Registered Linux User #445632 http://counter.li.org From jfriend31 at comcast.net Mon May 4 18:08:39 2009 From: jfriend31 at comcast.net (Jack B. Friend) Date: Mon May 4 18:08:49 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <20090504235415.GA8895@gemini.doesntexist.org> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <200905031855.13476.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090504235415.GA8895@gemini.doesntexist.org> Message-ID: <1241482119.6653.5.camel@jack-desktop> Folks: i had a most interesting experience at BestBuy the other day. a tech from behind the service counter actually knew more than i did about routers. i had gone to find one that would allow me to connect more than 2 computers to my Comcast cable. he even told me how to configure the router once i had it installed. he was right on. jack On Mon, 2009-05-04 at 17:54 -0600, Erik Falor wrote: > On Sun, May 03, 2009 at 06:54:55PM -0600, Kevin Benko wrote: > > On Saturday 02 May 2009 18:59:12 Kevin Benko wrote: > > > Greetings: > > > > [snip] > > > > But wouldn't one expect a salesperson at $BIGSTORE, specifically in the > > computer hardware section, to be aware of hardware interoperability with > > the Linux kernel? > > > > I don't know which value of $BIGSTORE you're assuming, but for all > ${BIGSTORE}s I've encountered, the salespeople are as qualified to > give technology advice as I am qualified to give advice on basketball. > Let's face it. They're salespeople. If they were real geeks, they > wouldn't have to take a job where the dresscode involved a name > badge and a necktie. > > I can imagine that any training these folks get amounts to whatever > they glean from the contents of a Windows Vista pamphlet they read in > the breakroom, or whatever sit-down meeting the marketing department of > $BIGOEM sponsors. At least, that's how it was when I worked one > summer at $OFFICESUPPLYSTORE. > > I stopped asking the salespersons what he/she thinks about a > particular computer when one of them referred to virtual memory as > "pretend memory". Another gem was the time a salesman told me that I > should buy the computer in front of me because "it has a really big > hard drive, and it won't slow down even if you install a lot of video > games." Thanks, I could have gotten /that/ advice from my father. > > For those of you who do shop for PCs at a $BIGSTORE, do you actually > ask a salesperson questions, or do you walk in there with a good idea > of what you want to buy? If you do ask questions, what sorts of > CAPTCHA questions do you guys ask salespeople to sift the wheat from > the tares? > > I can imagine that a question involving the words "linux" and > "hardware" would elicit a predictable knee-jerk reaction along the > lines of "Linux is bad, m'kay, because Ballmer says so. Why don't you > watch what happens when I press Win+Tab on this Vista desktop?" I > wouldn't want that guy's advice. How do you find out if the > salesperson knows what he/she is talking about? > From ewfalor at gmail.com Mon May 4 21:24:56 2009 From: ewfalor at gmail.com (Erik Falor) Date: Mon May 4 21:25:03 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <1241482119.6653.5.camel@jack-desktop> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <200905031855.13476.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090504235415.GA8895@gemini.doesntexist.org> <1241482119.6653.5.camel@jack-desktop> Message-ID: <20090505032454.GB8895@gemini.doesntexist.org> On Mon, May 04, 2009 at 06:08:39PM -0600, Jack B. Friend wrote: > Folks: > > i had a most interesting experience at BestBuy the other day. a tech > from behind the service counter actually knew more than i did about > routers. i had gone to find one that would allow me to connect more than > 2 computers to my Comcast cable. he even told me how to configure the > router once i had it installed. he was right on. > > jack > Wow! Give that guy a raise! Or get him to work for Comcast. Someone who knows how to set up a router would be a great asset to their organization. -- Erik Falor Registered Linux User #445632 http://counter.li.org From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Mon May 4 21:47:57 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Mon May 4 21:48:05 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <20090504235415.GA8895@gemini.doesntexist.org> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <200905031855.13476.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090504235415.GA8895@gemini.doesntexist.org> Message-ID: <49FFB6ED.9070203@ridgecrestherbals.com> Erik Falor wrote: > For those of you who do shop for PCs at a $BIGSTORE, do you actually > ask a salesperson questions, or do you walk in there with a good idea > of what you want to buy? If you do ask questions, what sorts of > CAPTCHA questions do you guys ask salespeople to sift the wheat from > the tares? If I say I only use Linux, either the conversation ends really quick (usually) or (sometimes) they steer me to someone on staff who has at least used it, and may be a fan, though not usually a full-fledged geek. You know pretty quick what distributions they know, what they do with Linux, what applications/desktops they run, and whether you will get useful info. That guy is usually not afraid to let you see the BIOS screen, or more detailed specs like chipsets used, and let you check the hardware compatibility list for linux support. > I can imagine that a question involving the words "linux" and > "hardware" would elicit a predictable knee-jerk reaction along the > lines of "Linux is bad, m'kay, because Ballmer says so. Why don't you > watch what happens when I press Win+Tab on this Vista desktop?" I > wouldn't want that guy's advice. How do you find out if the > salesperson knows what he/she is talking about? I never waste time with these types, unless I have a real specific question. They can't possibly help unless it is to look up info that may not be on display. -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From aaron.toponce at gmail.com Tue May 5 09:22:11 2009 From: aaron.toponce at gmail.com (Aaron Toponce) Date: Tue May 5 09:22:19 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090505152211.GF17476@helios.cocyt.us> On Sat, May 02, 2009 at 06:59:12PM -0600, Kevin Benko wrote: > Under what circumstances do you decide to take advantage of the opportunity > to advocate for GNU+Linux? http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20080608 -- . O . O . O . . O O . . . O . . . O . O O O . O . O O . . O O O O . O . . O O O O . O O O -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 490 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090505/0ef810dc/attachment-0001.pgp From ewfalor at gmail.com Tue May 5 09:47:14 2009 From: ewfalor at gmail.com (Erik Falor) Date: Tue May 5 09:47:27 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <20090505152211.GF17476@helios.cocyt.us> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505152211.GF17476@helios.cocyt.us> Message-ID: <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> On Tue, May 05, 2009 at 09:22:11AM -0600, Aaron Toponce wrote: > On Sat, May 02, 2009 at 06:59:12PM -0600, Kevin Benko wrote: > > Under what circumstances do you decide to take advantage of the opportunity > > to advocate for GNU+Linux? > > http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20080608 > And if anyone says that thought has never crossed his mind, he's a liar. -- Erik Falor Registered Linux User #445632 http://counter.li.org From shaun.kruger at gmail.com Tue May 5 10:28:17 2009 From: shaun.kruger at gmail.com (Shaun Kruger) Date: Tue May 5 10:28:25 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505152211.GF17476@helios.cocyt.us> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> Message-ID: On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Erik Falor wrote: > > And if anyone says that thought has never crossed his mind, he's a > liar. > I usually pause and ask myself, "Is this a person I want calling me three times a week asking me for help?". I often will suggest windows because I don't want to have a pile of people who are depending on me for support when it turns out that they aren't inquisitive enough to try and figure things out for themselves. It is possible that I'm being unkind, but I do know some people I would never offer Ubuntu. Shaun From dbb at beatties.us Tue May 5 12:02:17 2009 From: dbb at beatties.us (Doug Beattie) Date: Tue May 5 12:05:28 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [usergroups@informit.com: Pearson Education User Group Program Newsletter -- May 2009] Message-ID: <20090505180217.GA8713@beatties.us> -- -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "InformIT User Groups" Subject: Pearson Education User Group Program Newsletter -- May 2009 Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 13:31:05 -0400 Size: 36875 Url: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090505/2ed9fdc3/attachment-0001.mht From jeffquiparle at gmail.com Tue May 5 13:41:20 2009 From: jeffquiparle at gmail.com (Jeff Shipley) Date: Tue May 5 13:41:24 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <20090505152211.GF17476@helios.cocyt.us> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505152211.GF17476@helios.cocyt.us> Message-ID: > http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20080608 You can still help people find their way to Linux. Just use something other than $POPULAR_DISTRO and you can still be "cool." From fyyht at punchcutter.ml1.net Tue May 5 17:03:16 2009 From: fyyht at punchcutter.ml1.net (David J Iannucci) Date: Tue May 5 17:03:19 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com><20090505152211.GF17476@helios.cocyt.us><20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> Message-ID: <1241564596.5945.1313987375@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Tue, 05 May 2009 "Shaun Kruger" wrote: > I usually pause and ask myself, "Is this a person I want calling me > three times a week asking me for help?". > > ....people who are depending on me for support when it turns out that > they aren't inquisitive enough to try and figure things out for > themselves. It's sad that this is still an issue for desktop Linux, in spite of all the (really tremendous) progress that has been made in recent years. There *are* still too many circumstances in which a "granny" with no particular technical inclination will find herself in need of help just to do something basic. At least, more so than for Windows or Mac. I don't have a lot of hope that this situation can be improved much in the near future... we may be approaching an asymptote which is still somewhat shy of Things-Just-Work. Dave From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Tue May 5 17:40:15 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Tue May 5 17:40:24 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <1241564596.5945.1313987375@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com><20090505152211.GF17476@helios.cocyt.us><20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <1241564596.5945.1313987375@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <4A00CE5F.4020804@ridgecrestherbals.com> David J Iannucci wrote: > There *are* still too many circumstances in which a "granny" with no > particular technical inclination will find herself in need of help just > to do something basic. At least, more so than for Windows or Mac. > I don't have a lot of hope that this situation can be improved much in > the near future... we may be approaching an asymptote which is still > somewhat shy of Things-Just-Work. I'm not sure it's more than Windows or Mac. I tried my daughter's Mac recently and did not find it completely intuitive either. And finding "Log out" under the "Start" button on Windows isn't user interface genius, for sure. Some of the problem is that program names and icons aren't intuitive, like "Firefox" and "Safari" are less intuitive names than, say "Internet Explorer" (but IE is a trademark nightmare). Ubuntu now puts "Ekiga softphone" or "Firefox Web Browser" on the menu, which helps a lot early on. I find the Apple launcher and single-button mouse really clunky after the Ubuntu interface, and I love being able to pan between about 6 desktops. -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Tue May 5 20:36:20 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Tue May 5 20:36:24 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <4A00CE5F.4020804@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505152211.GF17476@helios.cocyt.us> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <1241564596.5945.1313987375@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4A00CE5F.4020804@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: I think you can "pan" which desktop you're on in mac too. but sometihin ya cahnt doo is have the X screen size bigger than the display screen size. at least, not without trickery. I can turn that on in a GUI! can't do dat in a mac! so you guys think that not everybody should be using linux? okay, I guess that's right. just as long as they don't use mac or windows. don't want apple or rn1cr0$oft to survive the economic crisis, now do we? On 5/5/09, Matt Warnock wrote: > David J Iannucci wrote: >> There *are* still too many circumstances in which a "granny" with no >> particular technical inclination will find herself in need of help just >> to do something basic. At least, more so than for Windows or Mac. >> I don't have a lot of hope that this situation can be improved much in >> the near future... we may be approaching an asymptote which is still >> somewhat shy of Things-Just-Work. > > I'm not sure it's more than Windows or Mac. I tried my daughter's Mac > recently and did not find it completely intuitive either. And finding > "Log out" under the "Start" button on Windows isn't user interface > genius, for sure. > > Some of the problem is that program names and icons aren't intuitive, > like "Firefox" and "Safari" are less intuitive names than, say "Internet > Explorer" (but IE is a trademark nightmare). Ubuntu now puts "Ekiga > softphone" or "Firefox Web Browser" on the menu, which helps a lot early > on. I find the Apple launcher and single-button mouse really clunky > after the Ubuntu interface, and I love being able to pan between about 6 > desktops. > > -- > Matt Warnock, President > RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From fozz at xmission.com Tue May 5 22:51:10 2009 From: fozz at xmission.com (Doran L. Barton) Date: Tue May 5 22:51:20 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> Message-ID: <200905052251.11030.fozz@xmission.com> On Tuesday 05 May 2009 10:28:17 Shaun Kruger wrote: > On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Erik Falor wrote: > > And if anyone says that thought has never crossed his mind, he's a > > liar. > > I usually pause and ask myself, "Is this a person I want calling me > three times a week asking me for help?". My dad and my brother have been running on Linux for many years now because I got sick and tired of them calling me with their Windows problems. At one point, I threatened (and eventually made good on that threat) that if I had to reinstall the OS on my dad's home computer one more time, it wouldn't be Windows that I put on it. He's runs Fedora on his home computer, his laptop, and his office computer. I love it because if he has a problem, I can just SSH in and check it out. Far fewer trips driving to his home or office. -- Doran L. "Fozz" Barton Open-source developer, sysadmin, consultant, and all-around geeky dude "Bank Drive-in Window Blocked by Board" -- Headline seen in a newspaper From justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com Tue May 5 22:58:20 2009 From: justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com (Justin Brinkerhoff) Date: Tue May 5 22:58:23 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <200905052251.11030.fozz@xmission.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <200905052251.11030.fozz@xmission.com> Message-ID: <2f932a4a0905052158g34fb0494l6e51ca92f1d605a4@mail.gmail.com> LOL nice! I've done the same thing with my family before too, is the funny part. Nice ol' "come to Jesus meeting" over OS's". On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Doran L. Barton wrote: > On Tuesday 05 May 2009 10:28:17 Shaun Kruger wrote: >> On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Erik Falor wrote: >> > And if anyone says that thought has never crossed his mind, he's a >> > liar. >> >> I usually pause and ask myself, "Is this a person I want calling me >> three times a week asking me for help?". > > My dad and my brother have been running on Linux for many years now because I > got sick and tired of them calling me with their Windows problems. At one > point, I threatened (and eventually made good on that threat) that if I had to > reinstall the OS on my dad's home computer one more time, it wouldn't be > Windows that I put on it. > > He's runs Fedora on his home computer, his laptop, and his office computer. I > love it because if he has a problem, I can just SSH in and check it out. Far > fewer trips driving to his home or office. > > -- > Doran L. "Fozz" Barton > Open-source developer, sysadmin, consultant, and all-around geeky dude > ?"Bank Drive-in Window Blocked by Board" > ? ?-- Headline seen in a newspaper > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From fozz at xmission.com Tue May 5 23:00:42 2009 From: fozz at xmission.com (Doran L. Barton) Date: Tue May 5 23:00:50 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Looking for a "multi-tool" Linux administrator Message-ID: <200905052300.42869.fozz@xmission.com> See the full job description below for all the criteria. I'll tell you right off the bat that we're looking for serious administrator and ACR will pay generously/competitively for the right person. Send resumes (*not* in Word format, thank you very much) to itjobs@acrllc.com. Also, don't look at http://www.acrllc.com/ as the shining example of the company's line-up. It's badly out of date and the designers have been working on a replacement for it. If you get an interview, you'll get to see all the cool stuff the company is working on (and if you get the job, you can push the designers' work live! :)) If you have any questions, you may direct them to me. Job description follows: ACR International is a holding company in Provo that operates several web- based businesses. We are looking for a Linux systems administrator with a diverse set of skills to help manage infrastructure for a fast-growing website. The ideal candidate should meet the following requirements: - Substantial experience administering Linux, especially Red Hat Enterprise, CentOS, and/or Fedora Linux installations. RHCE is a plus but demonstrated competence equivalence acceptable. - Experience managing database installations using MySQL and PostgreSQL. - Experience configuring and maintaining Linux firewalls (iptables and shorewall). - Understanding of common backup terminology and experience using open source backup applications like bacula. - Experience managing a growing set of multiple systems in a data center environment. - Ability to configdently configure, deploy, and troubleshoot server applications such as Apache, Lighttpd, Flash Media Server, MySQL server, NFS, Bacula, Bind, ISC DHCP server, and Sendmail and/or Postfix. - Familiarity with open source monitoring toolkits including Nagios, Munin, Cacti, and MRTG. The following skills are highly desired: - Solid understanding of VPNs. OpenVPN and open source IPSEC implementations are a plus. - Open source high availability familiarity is a plus. - Good understanding of opens source audio and video data conversion, streaming, transcoding and encoding technology including FFMPEG and mplayer/mencoder. - Good understanding of Asterisk and open source VOIP technology - Good ability to debug and troubleshoot script and application code written in PHP, Perl, and Bash shell script. - Ability to crank out simple system administration scripts in Perl and Bash shell script. - Familiarity with Red Hat kickstart technology and managed network installation and deployment systems such as Cobbler. - Experience working with SNMP nodes, managed ethernet switches, and onboard embedded server management/monitoring solutions such as IPMI. - Good server hardware troubleshooting skills. - Good understanding of web video conventions and standards including Flash video, MPEG4, and mobile video formats such as 3GP. Familiarity with open source tools for working with this data is definitely a plus. - Highly-effective communication skills, written and oral. - Appreciation of sports is beneficial. Job responsibilities include: - Help maintain server and application uptime. - Participate in an on-call rotation schedule that guarantees response to problems 24/7. - Design and implement new, more efficient and more effective ways to monitor, maintain, and deploy systems. - Work at least part-time at ACR's headquarters in Provo. Remainder of time may be spent working remotely. - Deploy and configure new servers in data center as needed. -- Doran L. Barton Open-source developer, sysadmin, consultant, and all-around geeky dude "Directions: Use like regular soap." -- Seen on bar-soap packaging From unum at unum5.org Wed May 6 09:34:45 2009 From: unum at unum5.org (Kyle Waters) Date: Wed May 6 09:35:18 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <4A00CE5F.4020804@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com><20090505152211.GF17476@helios.cocyt.us><20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <1241564596.5945.1313987375@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4A00CE5F.4020804@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <4A01AE15.2090008@unum5.org> Matt Warnock wrote: > > I'm not sure it's more than Windows or Mac. I tried my daughter's Mac > recently and did not find it completely intuitive either. And finding > "Log out" under the "Start" button on Windows isn't user interface > genius, for sure. Have you ever tried to change your keyboard layout to Dvorak under windows? Apparently it's a language.... Also adding an ip printer under windows. Apparently a network printer isn't a network printer but a local printer..... Windows is NOT easy and intuitive. I'm sure if I actually used windows I would know more examples. People grow up with it. They are forced to use it at school. I had to prove I could use Power Point before they would let me graduate college. I'm not joking. NO ONE can graduate from USU with out proving they can use Power Point and Excel(you can pick between Wordperfect and Word). Also I had to take a test which told me Linux was command line only and the study material for the test said all free software was bad. Your tax money is being used to push and train everyone on Windows and that is why everyone think it is easy. It is not easy. Kyle From noblejames at gmail.com Wed May 6 15:05:30 2009 From: noblejames at gmail.com (James Noble) Date: Wed May 6 15:05:36 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <4A01AE15.2090008@unum5.org> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505152211.GF17476@helios.cocyt.us> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <1241564596.5945.1313987375@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4A00CE5F.4020804@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4A01AE15.2090008@unum5.org> Message-ID: > > > Have you ever tried to change your keyboard layout to Dvorak under windows? > Apparently it's a language.... Also adding an ip printer under windows. > Apparently a network printer isn't a network printer but a local > printer..... > Windows is NOT easy and intuitive. I'm sure if I actually used windows I > would know more examples. People grow up with it. They are forced to use > it at school. I had to prove I could use Power Point before they would let > me graduate college. I'm not joking. NO ONE can graduate from USU with out > proving they can use Power Point and Excel(you can pick between Wordperfect > and Word). Also I had to take a test which told me Linux was command line > only and the study material for the test said all free software was bad. > Your tax money is being used to push and train everyone on Windows and that > is why everyone think it is easy. It is not easy. > > Kyle > > What year did you graduate from USU? James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090506/43e58d3b/attachment.htm From thatch45 at gmail.com Wed May 6 15:16:05 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Wed May 6 15:16:22 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505152211.GF17476@helios.cocyt.us> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <1241564596.5945.1313987375@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4A00CE5F.4020804@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4A01AE15.2090008@unum5.org> Message-ID: <6172c17e0905061416u360c555ew98878a885d38b7aa@mail.gmail.com> I thought Kyle never graduated, because he can't use Power Point :) -Tom Hatch On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 3:05 PM, James Noble wrote: > > >> >> Have you ever tried to change your keyboard layout to Dvorak under >> windows? Apparently it's a language.... Also adding an ip printer under >> windows. Apparently a network printer isn't a network printer but a local >> printer..... >> Windows is NOT easy and intuitive. I'm sure if I actually used windows I >> would know more examples. People grow up with it. They are forced to use >> it at school. I had to prove I could use Power Point before they would let >> me graduate college. I'm not joking. NO ONE can graduate from USU with out >> proving they can use Power Point and Excel(you can pick between Wordperfect >> and Word). Also I had to take a test which told me Linux was command line >> only and the study material for the test said all free software was bad. >> Your tax money is being used to push and train everyone on Windows and that >> is why everyone think it is easy. It is not easy. >> >> Kyle >> >> > What year did you graduate from USU? > > James > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090506/341f763f/attachment.html From unum at unum5.org Wed May 6 15:59:36 2009 From: unum at unum5.org (Kyle Waters) Date: Wed May 6 15:59:49 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505152211.GF17476@helios.cocyt.us> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <1241564596.5945.1313987375@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4A00CE5F.4020804@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4A01AE15.2090008@unum5.org> Message-ID: <4A020848.1030002@unum5.org> James Noble wrote: > > > What year did you graduate from USU? > > James Technically Dec 2006, but I left in Dec of 2005. Some FSLC people ended up working with those test and were going to start offering openoffice.org and google as options, but last I heard they were shot down. Kyle From thatch45 at gmail.com Wed May 6 16:30:27 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Wed May 6 16:30:39 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <4A020848.1030002@unum5.org> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505152211.GF17476@helios.cocyt.us> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <1241564596.5945.1313987375@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4A00CE5F.4020804@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4A01AE15.2090008@unum5.org> <4A020848.1030002@unum5.org> Message-ID: <6172c17e0905061530i6e5c4429h25e44e47a9820296@mail.gmail.com> SUU has an openoffice option now, a lot of departments have switched too. They like it, what with the budget cuts everyone in the world has been getting On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 3:59 PM, Kyle Waters wrote: > James Noble wrote: > >> >> >> What year did you graduate from USU? >> >> James >> > > Technically Dec 2006, but I left in Dec of 2005. Some FSLC people ended up > working with those test and were going to start offering openoffice.organd google as options, but last I heard they were shot down. > > > Kyle > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090506/255169d1/attachment.htm From bms at mscis.org Wed May 6 17:29:51 2009 From: bms at mscis.org (Brandon Stout) Date: Wed May 6 17:30:16 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0905061530i6e5c4429h25e44e47a9820296@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505152211.GF17476@helios.cocyt.us> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <1241564596.5945.1313987375@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4A00CE5F.4020804@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4A01AE15.2090008@unum5.org> <4A020848.1030002@unum5.org> <6172c17e0905061530i6e5c4429h25e44e47a9820296@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A021D6F.7000400@mscis.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I wasn't forced to know any office product at BYU in 99. I could use whatever I wanted. Go BYU! Brandon Thomas S Hatch wrote: > SUU has an openoffice option now, a lot of departments have switched > too. They like it, what with the budget cuts everyone in the world > has been getting -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkoCHW8ACgkQx0pgn74qrcJZkQCfXIBJAk6gqVhkSWBqSSceMtxO 1PQAoJibUeDbCT3nuwbNrSToddh0yYbj =9dry -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ewfalor at gmail.com Wed May 6 17:34:46 2009 From: ewfalor at gmail.com (Erik Falor) Date: Wed May 6 17:34:51 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <4A01AE15.2090008@unum5.org> References: <1241564596.5945.1313987375@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4A00CE5F.4020804@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4A01AE15.2090008@unum5.org> Message-ID: <20090506233445.GC8966@gemini.sti> On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 09:34:45AM -0600, Kyle Waters wrote: > Have you ever tried to change your keyboard layout to Dvorak under windows? > Apparently it's a language.... Also adding an ip printer under windows. > Apparently a network printer isn't a network printer but a local > printer..... I love setting up a printer on Windows, and scrolling through the 1000's of printer drivers five at a time because their "user friendly" Wizard can't be resized, and doesn't have a search feature. At least it doesn't throw all drivers from all manufacturers into the same listbox. > Windows is NOT easy and intuitive. I'm sure if I actually used windows I > would know more examples. People grow up with it. They are forced to use > it at school. And that's how M$ likes it. This is third-hand information now, and maybe somebody closer to education has a better story, but I've heard about M$ giving school districts steep discounts if they use Windows-based solutions throughout their organization, from print servers to webservers to mailservers, etc. Throw one non-M$ box in the mix, and it'll cost you more. In light of stuff like this: http://www.ecis.eu/documents/Finalversion_Consumerchoicepaper.pdf it's hard not to believe that they're up to it. > I had to prove I could use Power Point before they would let > me graduate college. I'm not joking. NO ONE can graduate from USU with out > proving they can use Power Point and Excel(you can pick between Wordperfect > and Word). May I presume that you're talking about the BCIS 1400 course? Maybe that's because the BCIS people are barely qualified to program a VCR. At least, that's how most Computer Science students regarded that department. Many of the CS faculty, for their part, are very friendly to Linux (or rabidly anti-Windows, depending upon your point of view). At any rate, BCIS 1400 was a waste of time, and I'm glad that I was able to take that class through my High School for free. The first day of class was "This is a mouse. This is a monitor. The monitor is not the computer itself, that's the box the monitor is sitting upon. This is a keyboard...." The rest of the semester was equally mind-numbing. Maybe in the late '80s when many people still hadn't had contact with a computer, it would have been helpful. But c'mon, 1999? In 1999 the "information superhighway" was already an old expression. > Also I had to take a test which told me Linux was command line > only and the study material for the test said all free software was bad. > Your tax money is being used to push and train everyone on Windows and that > is why everyone think it is easy. It is not easy. Yep. -- Erik Falor Registered Linux User #445632 http://counter.li.org From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Wed May 6 18:48:44 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Wed May 6 18:48:52 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <200905052251.11030.fozz@xmission.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <200905052251.11030.fozz@xmission.com> Message-ID: <4A022FEC.60206@ridgecrestherbals.com> You are my hero. I've often thought about it, but your experience gives me great hope. My dad is change-averse in the extreme, but I just got him off Quattro Pro 2002 in favor of OpenOffice, so maybe I should change out his OS while I am at it. Doran L. Barton wrote: > On Tuesday 05 May 2009 10:28:17 Shaun Kruger wrote: >> On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Erik Falor wrote: >>> And if anyone says that thought has never crossed his mind, he's a >>> liar. >> I usually pause and ask myself, "Is this a person I want calling me >> three times a week asking me for help?". > > My dad and my brother have been running on Linux for many years now because I > got sick and tired of them calling me with their Windows problems. At one > point, I threatened (and eventually made good on that threat) that if I had to > reinstall the OS on my dad's home computer one more time, it wouldn't be > Windows that I put on it. > > He's runs Fedora on his home computer, his laptop, and his office computer. I > love it because if he has a problem, I can just SSH in and check it out. Far > fewer trips driving to his home or office. > -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Thu May 7 12:01:38 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Thu May 7 12:01:43 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <4A022FEC.60206@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <200905052251.11030.fozz@xmission.com> <4A022FEC.60206@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: wow, lets start a VOLUNTEER ddos network to get microsoft.com off the web... just kidding. it scares me how much microsoft will do to hold on to it's monopoly. they don't care that linux is better, that they should probably GPL windows and move on to another product, nothing. creepy. I wonder if it has ever crossed "our good friend" bil gate's mind that turning windows into a desktop for linux (like kde or gnome, i mean) would eliminate the war and keep both sides happy? okay, for us not as happy as if rn$ went away, (rn=m), but microsoft would survive... they're just being stubborn at this point. they could take over the world by asking "can we control the world" nicely, with "windows-as-a-desktop", but they have to use force. which of course is the real reason we hate them. On 5/6/09, Matt Warnock wrote: > You are my hero. I've often thought about it, but your experience gives > me great hope. My dad is change-averse in the extreme, but I just got > him off Quattro Pro 2002 in favor of OpenOffice, so maybe I should > change out his OS while I am at it. > > Doran L. Barton wrote: >> On Tuesday 05 May 2009 10:28:17 Shaun Kruger wrote: >>> On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Erik Falor wrote: >>>> And if anyone says that thought has never crossed his mind, he's a >>>> liar. >>> I usually pause and ask myself, "Is this a person I want calling me >>> three times a week asking me for help?". >> >> My dad and my brother have been running on Linux for many years now >> because I >> got sick and tired of them calling me with their Windows problems. At one >> point, I threatened (and eventually made good on that threat) that if I >> had to >> reinstall the OS on my dad's home computer one more time, it wouldn't be >> Windows that I put on it. >> >> He's runs Fedora on his home computer, his laptop, and his office >> computer. I >> love it because if he has a problem, I can just SSH in and check it out. >> Far >> fewer trips driving to his home or office. >> > > -- > Matt Warnock, President > RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From sdmorrey at gmail.com Thu May 7 12:50:24 2009 From: sdmorrey at gmail.com (Steven Morrey) Date: Thu May 7 12:50:28 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <200905052251.11030.fozz@xmission.com> <4A022FEC.60206@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: Those are common arguments but they are incorrect. There are thousands of proprietary technologies licensed from third parties into windows. Microsoft couldn't open source windows or even release it as a closed source desktop that ran on top of a gnu linux, because of these licenses, it's the same argument for nVidia and Ati and closed source drivers BTW. These people aren't stupid, they wouldn't pass up the opportunity to slash dev costs by billions, unless analysis showed that moving to linux or anything else for a core would cost more than it would make. Another thing to remember is that the majority of MS income is from sales of software such as Office and Exchange, not sales of Windows. One would think, why not just release a version of each product for each OS like Mac or Linux or FreeBSD or insert favorite OS here, but the fact is they are and they have. Remember though most computers are not sitting on desktops. They are everywhere around you, and because of this, the OS isn't as important as it once was. The embedded space which is the majority of computers in use today, is already ruled by a mish mash of different proprietary OS's and the server space basically belongs to Unix/Linux in any serious environment. The desktop is almost insiginifcant and as has been shown by the recent rise of the netbooks, people really don't care too much about the OS as long as the darn thing works! If MS, Google, IBM, Amazon and all the other big players have their way, we will all be renting our software and using it through our browsers, or some other net enabled platform such as JVM or god help us .NET They are moving us away from the shrinkwrapped boxed product, turning everything into SaS and making everything cloud based. If this happens then as long as there is a network connection the software will "just work". At that point it won't matter what OS we are using, since everything will be running neat and clean, on demand in a tidy little web-controlled VM running on our desktop / laptop / phone / neural interface / data enema or what have you. That my friends is what I believe the future is, it's in the past. We didn't learn our lessons in the mainframe days and now we're about to repeat these same decisions, hopefully we'll get it right this time :) Sincerely, Steve On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Christian Horne wrote: > wow, lets start a VOLUNTEER ddos network to get microsoft.com off the > web... just kidding. > it scares me how much microsoft will do to hold on to it's monopoly. > they don't care that linux is better, that they should probably GPL > windows and move on to another product, > nothing. creepy. I wonder if it has ever crossed "our good friend" bil > gate's mind that turning windows into a desktop for linux (like kde or > gnome, i mean) would eliminate the war > and keep both sides happy? okay, for us not as happy as if rn$ went > away, (rn=m), but microsoft would survive... > > they're just being stubborn at this point. they could take over the > world by asking "can we control the world" nicely, with > "windows-as-a-desktop", but they have to use force. > > which of course is the real reason we hate them. > > On 5/6/09, Matt Warnock wrote: > > You are my hero. I've often thought about it, but your experience gives > > me great hope. My dad is change-averse in the extreme, but I just got > > him off Quattro Pro 2002 in favor of OpenOffice, so maybe I should > > change out his OS while I am at it. > > > > Doran L. Barton wrote: > >> On Tuesday 05 May 2009 10:28:17 Shaun Kruger wrote: > >>> On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Erik Falor wrote: > >>>> And if anyone says that thought has never crossed his mind, he's a > >>>> liar. > >>> I usually pause and ask myself, "Is this a person I want calling me > >>> three times a week asking me for help?". > >> > >> My dad and my brother have been running on Linux for many years now > >> because I > >> got sick and tired of them calling me with their Windows problems. At > one > >> point, I threatened (and eventually made good on that threat) that if I > >> had to > >> reinstall the OS on my dad's home computer one more time, it wouldn't be > >> Windows that I put on it. > >> > >> He's runs Fedora on his home computer, his laptop, and his office > >> computer. I > >> love it because if he has a problem, I can just SSH in and check it out. > >> Far > >> fewer trips driving to his home or office. > >> > > > > -- > > Matt Warnock, President > > RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > > > -- > the blendmaster > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090507/6ae4804b/attachment.html From herlo1 at gmail.com Thu May 7 13:43:53 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Thu May 7 13:44:00 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Stout Family needs your help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Monday, I sent out this announcement to some mailing lists. I meant to get it out here too, but haven't had time until now. I know some of you have heard about Brandon Stout's wife's issues. I'd like to pass this on for Brandon and his family. ?Earlier today I sent him an email informing him of the collection we're taking, and here's his response. This is in relation to the story that ran on KSL recently. http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=6340968 We're taking donations on http://utos.org if you are wanting to help. UTOS is paying for the paypal fees to make the amounts round out to what was actually donated. Clint ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Brandon Stout Date: Mon, May 4, 2009 at 1:08 PM Subject: Re: Hey, we saw the thing on KSL.com To: Clint Savage -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Clint, Thank you very much. ?I have wanted to put up a site with a paypal link, but have not had the time with so much going on all at once. ?I cannot find the words to adequately express my gratitude. ?You've been a great friend since the day I met you when you gave me a ride to UPHPU, and I appreciate it. ?You can take some pictures off of http://flfn.org/ or Facebook from my profile, you can refer people to http://flfn.org/ , and you can reference my request for help letter on FLFN.org: http://flfn.org/blog/brasto/help-request-letter The letter is a little out-dated because people are already sending us to Disneyland and our front yard is done, and I think someone is secretly planning to do our backyard, but it still adequately shows what's happening, where cash donations can help, and how really wanted to try and be self-sufficient to the last. Thank you again. Brandon Clint Savage wrote: > And the guys from UPHPU and UTOS have put up a donation site at > chipin.com (you can see the widget on blog.utos.org). ?UTOS is paying > all the paypal fees and I'll be putting out a blog post shortly about > the situation. > > We're gonna do everything we can to help. > > Cheers, > > Clint -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkn/PUgACgkQx0pgn74qrcJdMwCguWCjCLQXgVCcMXHdFIvzTAbb hFcAoJLnSb2YAdrhQ1KBGZh+XXmlmNpk =2KoQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From aaron.toponce at gmail.com Thu May 7 14:29:26 2009 From: aaron.toponce at gmail.com (Aaron Toponce) Date: Thu May 7 14:29:34 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <200905052251.11030.fozz@xmission.com> <4A022FEC.60206@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <20090507202926.GD7119@helios.cocyt.us> On Thu, May 07, 2009 at 12:01:38PM -0600, Christian Horne wrote: > which of course is the real reason we hate them. "BSD users use BSD because they love Unix. Linux users use Linux because they hate Windows." ~ unknown Personally, I'd much rather choose something because I love it rather than because I hate the competition. Maybe that's just me. -- . O . O . O . . O O . . . O . . . O . O O O . O . O O . . O O O O . O . . O O O O . O O O -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 490 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090507/8794009b/attachment.pgp From thatch45 at gmail.com Thu May 7 14:41:13 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Thu May 7 14:41:18 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <20090507202926.GD7119@helios.cocyt.us> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <200905052251.11030.fozz@xmission.com> <4A022FEC.60206@ridgecrestherbals.com> <20090507202926.GD7119@helios.cocyt.us> Message-ID: <6172c17e0905071341t473b9664v1fccdcd4e8dc6c2d@mail.gmail.com> I must admit, I started using Linux because I grew to hate Windows, but I quickly fell in love with Linux - which is why I continue to use it. I don't use BSD because I love KVM On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Aaron Toponce wrote: > On Thu, May 07, 2009 at 12:01:38PM -0600, Christian Horne wrote: > > which of course is the real reason we hate them. > > "BSD users use BSD because they love Unix. Linux users use Linux because > they hate Windows." ~ unknown > > Personally, I'd much rather choose something because I love it rather > than because I hate the competition. Maybe that's just me. > > -- > . O . O . O . . O O . . . O . > . . O . O O O . O . O O . . O > O O O . O . . O O O O . O O O > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJKA0SlAAoJEM55Ebf8BAiP4B4H/iaeTDydnqXQ8mvTCHbiN9nf > 0huXakRg/mj8mDUeUIXed2XMmlasvv9Eq4NeHQDpJEiQ4YfyumGHgJ+PBYLCYGzT > hV3u5g5o/QgetQUy15lbgs4N4gKuUu5tJG9vSjsNii3rVQm7GbEbRhwSITz1lkiu > Cv+p2czg41EEkuoJCi54tQrtBzZnlSD9e5Gu8H6SQHGL2C40c/TXDh9p61ZtyPUe > WfhHyukhOCTvzWSZdGySGyO+BQfWNEon5rKkHbGn6SCR0H9+k9tMYttRHjZFItbH > gBPzwy4hhIhGJbfCP6Z00tX4+ZGEje41jLQmZ3TsSjdxWtJX3ya3GOFsv0GJuF0= > =TXD0 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090507/9d2797e3/attachment.html From justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com Thu May 7 15:23:07 2009 From: justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com (Justin Brinkerhoff) Date: Thu May 7 15:23:15 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0905071341t473b9664v1fccdcd4e8dc6c2d@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <200905052251.11030.fozz@xmission.com> <4A022FEC.60206@ridgecrestherbals.com> <20090507202926.GD7119@helios.cocyt.us> <6172c17e0905071341t473b9664v1fccdcd4e8dc6c2d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f932a4a0905071423x18a6b1acp13aac4da9d0ab35d@mail.gmail.com> Well, I started using Linux, because I wanted to learn what else was out there. And fell in love with it shortly after. I tried BSD, and never got real far with it, so gave up on it. Although I guess I use BSD everyday... lol. Mac is BSD if you think about it. I'm very open minded about OS', and each OS has their place. I use Windows, Mac, and Linux on a daily basis most of the time, but for different purposes. And let's face it, Mac is the most universally commercially supported flavor of UNIX on the planet. Sure Apple modified the BSD kernel a bit here and there, but for the most part, it's BSD. Anyway, that got a bit off the subject there. Steve and Aaron do make good valid points though. Cloud computing is coming more and more into acceptance. Now, I love it, yet I hate it. I personally think things would be more efficient using cloud applications. On a side note of that of course is, for them to run in the cloud, there are of course incurring costs; server hardware has to run, they have to pay developers to keep it maintained (in an agile way I would hope), bandwidth has to be used, WAN links have to be created, etc..., therefore resulting in some monthly fee like Steve mentioned. Also, in order to run them, you have to have an internet connection. That seems so primitive these days, but there are a lot of people without one as we speak, and the recession contributed to that. So if we put cloud computing into consideration, we just ask ourselves, is not having to deal with application maintenance and data integrity where it can be backed up, and managed remotely worth paying a monthly fee? That's what it really boils down too. Say I write a Ruby on Rails photo gallery application using AJAX. And let's say I had the balls to be brave enough to go up to Adobe, and be like, let's make a full fledged version of Photoshop web based. And assuming this really was a perfect world ;) and they said yes, we'd start this endeaver. So we get done writing a cloud based Photoshop, but I write more into my original app. So I write in this functionality into the application that once you create and/or edit your images using Photoshop, you can now manage them in a remote file system, and you can change file names, move them between directories, etc... Well if you were a graphic artist, photographer, or everyday hobbyist, this would be an awesome app, just as it stands. Well along with that, there are nightly tape backups, and files are also copied over a SAN with RAID-DP. Now, let's just speculate here, I ran my app from some colo from a rack server, and setup a burstable DS1, and got it all running. Well just with those few elements involved, I would be looking at $25,000 roughly for the hardware, then about $500 - $700 a month in recurring expenses. So, I'd have to find a way to curb that cost, and would have to charge something to get a decent ROI. Now, if I had the financial backing, and I knew this app would be popular, I may consider around the ballpark of $20 I would guess. So I mean thats really what it comes down to, convenience and efficiency meets cost. On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > I must admit, I started using Linux because I grew to hate Windows, but I > quickly fell in love with Linux - which is why I continue to use it. > > I don't use BSD because I love KVM > > On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Aaron Toponce > wrote: >> >> On Thu, May 07, 2009 at 12:01:38PM -0600, Christian Horne wrote: >> > which of course is the real reason we hate them. >> >> "BSD users use BSD because they love Unix. Linux users use Linux because >> they hate Windows." ~ unknown >> >> Personally, I'd much rather choose something because I love it rather >> than because I hate the competition. Maybe that's just me. >> >> -- >> . O . ? O . O ? . . O ? O . . ? . O . >> . . O ? . O O ? O . O ? . O O ? . . O >> O O O ? . O . ? . O O ? O O . ? O O O >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) >> >> iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJKA0SlAAoJEM55Ebf8BAiP4B4H/iaeTDydnqXQ8mvTCHbiN9nf >> 0huXakRg/mj8mDUeUIXed2XMmlasvv9Eq4NeHQDpJEiQ4YfyumGHgJ+PBYLCYGzT >> hV3u5g5o/QgetQUy15lbgs4N4gKuUu5tJG9vSjsNii3rVQm7GbEbRhwSITz1lkiu >> Cv+p2czg41EEkuoJCi54tQrtBzZnlSD9e5Gu8H6SQHGL2C40c/TXDh9p61ZtyPUe >> WfhHyukhOCTvzWSZdGySGyO+BQfWNEon5rKkHbGn6SCR0H9+k9tMYttRHjZFItbH >> gBPzwy4hhIhGJbfCP6Z00tX4+ZGEje41jLQmZ3TsSjdxWtJX3ya3GOFsv0GJuF0= >> =TXD0 >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > From u235sentinel at gmail.com Thu May 7 16:33:41 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Thu May 7 16:33:47 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0905071341t473b9664v1fccdcd4e8dc6c2d@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <200905052251.11030.fozz@xmission.com> <4A022FEC.60206@ridgecrestherbals.com> <20090507202926.GD7119@helios.cocyt.us> <6172c17e0905071341t473b9664v1fccdcd4e8dc6c2d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A0361C5.206@gmail.com> Thomas S Hatch wrote: > I must admit, I started using Linux because I grew to hate Windows, > but I quickly fell in love with Linux - which is why I continue to use it. > > I don't use BSD because I love KVM > > My big thing with Linux is that I have options far beyond what Micro$oft can provide. I'm an MCSE and very familiar with their products. I've noticed they do a pretty lousy job with many things. Take something simple like TCP/IP. On the same computer and network my latency is nearly double under Windows XP. Reboot to Ubuntu and running the same games under WINE was amazing. In some cases my latency was at least cut in half. It was stunning. How can I NOT switch to Linux :D And now that I have several copies of Quake 4 and the linux client, I can frag with the best of them ;-) From herlo1 at gmail.com Thu May 7 19:48:00 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Thu May 7 19:48:08 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG May 13 11:30am-1pm, Introduction to Puppet Message-ID: Hi gang, Presentation: Basics of Puppet Presenter: Andrew Shafer Next Wednesday, May 13 is the next SLLUG Daytime SIG meeting. We'll be getting a great presentation on Puppet from Andrew Shafer of Reductive Labs. Andrew is a full-time Puppet developer and has been demonstrating the value of puppet for some time. He lives here in Salt Lake and is excited to show the basics of Puppet. What is Puppet? (for the curious and uninitiated) Puppet is an open-source next-generation server automation tool. It is composed of a declarative language for expressing system configuration, a client and server for distributing it, and a library for realizing the configuration. http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/FrequentlyAskedQuestions ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We meet in conference room A on the lower level of the Salt Lake Library. Head down the stairs, make a left turn. The conference room is directly under the foyer area (the area with all the shops on the 1st level) If you aren?t clear, ask the information desk. Also, our meetings should be posted on the Electric Signs by the entrance to the library on the first floor. Cheers, Clint From matt at frozenatom.com Thu May 7 20:24:19 2009 From: matt at frozenatom.com (Matt Nelson) Date: Thu May 7 20:24:23 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG May 13 11:30am-1pm, Introduction to Puppet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <148f6bb30905071924l74eae914r4e6602ab918f8238@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 7:48 PM, Clint Savage wrote: > Hi gang, > > Presentation: Basics of Puppet > Presenter: Andrew Shafer > > Next Wednesday, May 13 is the next SLLUG Daytime SIG meeting. We'll > be getting a great presentation on Puppet from Andrew Shafer of > Reductive Labs. Andrew is a full-time Puppet developer and has been > demonstrating the value of puppet for some time. He lives here in > Salt Lake and is excited to show the basics of Puppet. > > What is Puppet? (for the curious and uninitiated) > > Puppet is an open-source next-generation server automation tool. It is > composed of a declarative language for expressing system > configuration, a client and server for distributing it, and a library > for realizing the configuration. > > http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/FrequentlyAskedQuestions > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > We meet in conference room A on the lower level of the Salt Lake > Library. Head down the stairs, make a left turn. The conference room > is directly under the foyer area (the area with all the shops on the > 1st level) If you aren?t clear, ask the information desk. > > Also, our meetings should be posted on the Electric Signs by the > entrance to the library on the first floor. > > Cheers, > > Clint > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > Very Cool! I know there are a handful of guys that I work with that are interested as well. We'll see you then. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090507/3943c0cb/attachment.html From justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com Thu May 7 20:32:12 2009 From: justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com (Justin Brinkerhoff) Date: Thu May 7 20:32:21 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG May 13 11:30am-1pm, Introduction to Puppet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2f932a4a0905071932u2ac8711ej7f232ab274606626@mail.gmail.com> Sweet. I'll be there. I live like 5 mins away, so no problem getting there for me ;) On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 7:48 PM, Clint Savage wrote: > Hi gang, > > Presentation: Basics of Puppet > Presenter: Andrew Shafer > > Next Wednesday, May 13 is the next SLLUG Daytime SIG meeting. ?We'll > be getting a great presentation on Puppet from Andrew Shafer of > Reductive Labs. ?Andrew is a full-time Puppet developer and has been > demonstrating the value of puppet for some time. ?He lives here in > Salt Lake and is excited to show the basics of Puppet. > > What is Puppet? ?(for the curious and uninitiated) > > Puppet is an open-source next-generation server automation tool. It is > composed of a declarative language for expressing system > configuration, a client and server for distributing it, and a library > for realizing the configuration. > > http://reductivelabs.com/trac/puppet/wiki/FrequentlyAskedQuestions > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > We meet in conference room A on the lower level of the Salt Lake > Library. ?Head down the stairs, make a left turn. ?The conference room > is directly under the foyer area (the area with all the shops on the > 1st level) ?If you aren?t clear, ask the information desk. > > Also, our meetings should be posted on the Electric Signs by the > entrance to the library on the first floor. > > Cheers, > > Clint > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From fozz at xmission.com Thu May 7 21:25:14 2009 From: fozz at xmission.com (Doran L. "Fozz" Barton) Date: Thu May 7 21:26:11 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <20090507202926.GD7119@helios.cocyt.us> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090507202926.GD7119@helios.cocyt.us> Message-ID: <200905072125.15072.fozz@xmission.com> On Thursday 07 May 2009 14:29:26 Aaron Toponce wrote: > "BSD users use BSD because they love Unix. Linux users use Linux because > they hate Windows." ~ unknown I've heard that too... I was a Unix guy before I was a Linux guy. I dabbled with FreeBSD, OpenBSD, BSDI, etc. I learned Unix on pre-Solaris SunOS, so I had plenty of Berkeley influence. I remember in the early days of Linux, BSD had a much nicer networking stack and that was the pride and joy of every BSD user in the world. That didn't last too long, though, in the world of open source development. Linux's networking is every bit as good, if not better, than BSD's now. I never got too far with BSD systems mostly because it became so much more difficult, relatively speaking, to compile stuff there versus Linux. I gotta hand it to the BSD camp, though... they've got much sexier mascots. < http://www.fozzilinymoo.org/events/2001-LWCE-NY/images/0131/bsd- devilettes.medium.jpg > -- fozz@xmission.com is Doran L. "Fozz" Barton " Stop: Drive Sideways." -- Detour sign in Kyushi, Japan From aaron.toponce at gmail.com Thu May 7 21:48:08 2009 From: aaron.toponce at gmail.com (Aaron Toponce) Date: Thu May 7 21:48:17 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <200905072125.15072.fozz@xmission.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090507202926.GD7119@helios.cocyt.us> <200905072125.15072.fozz@xmission.com> Message-ID: <20090508034808.GE7119@helios.cocyt.us> On Thu, May 07, 2009 at 09:25:14PM -0600, Doran L. Fozz Barton wrote: > I gotta hand it to the BSD camp, though... they've got much sexier mascots. Tux has to be one of the worst mascots on the Internet. Not only is it a horrid rendition of a penguin, but it doesn't inspire what made Linus want to use nte penguin for in the first place. The logo is very juvenile and just can't be taken seriously. Thank heavens Red Hat, Canonical and even Novell have better logos to represent their distribution. Then there's the fact that people think it's cute or funny to put a fly swatter in his fin, or a bazooka, or suit him up in bullet-proof armor. Not only is it horrid, but it's overused and just as childish. I'm not really a fan of the BSD daemon either. That is, the cartoon with the Converse sneakers. FreeBSD and DragonflyBSD have done good with their logos, as the artwork is vastly superior. Funny, FreeBSD had a contest with their new logo too. Maybe we should bring over their artists. I look forward when Tux, and Tuz for that matter, go the way of the dodo, and we get something that actually looks like it was designed by a mature experienced artist. -- . O . O . O . . O O . . . O . . . O . O O O . O . O O . . O O O O . O . . O O O O . O O O -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 490 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090507/b9d40886/attachment-0001.pgp From justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com Thu May 7 22:32:13 2009 From: justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com (Justin Brinkerhoff) Date: Thu May 7 22:32:20 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Anyone know what the exact Broadcom chipset the Dell 1390 wireless uses? Message-ID: <2f932a4a0905072132k1bba0a4bk6caff2f4eff1914@mail.gmail.com> Hey Guys, So decided to finally dual boot this Dell Latitude D520 I got from work. Well, I slapped 9.04 on there, and everything works like a charm for the most part, but the wireless of course (it's always the last thing to work LOL). So question is, anyone know the exact Broadcom chipset the Dell 1390 wireless architecture uses? I am almost positive isn't not the Airport One 43xx chipset. As a positive note, I never realized how much I loved Rythymbox! LOL Random comment I know, but I never even opened it in any distro ever until today. I thought I'd give it a shot finally, and connected up with last.fm, and it's so freaking awesome! Anyway, back to the question, I've tried googling it, but get so many crossed answers, I thought I'd find out for sure from the honeypot itself :P Thanks in advance for the help. Justin From sdmorrey at gmail.com Fri May 8 08:31:00 2009 From: sdmorrey at gmail.com (Steven Morrey) Date: Fri May 8 08:31:09 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Anyone know what the exact Broadcom chipset the Dell 1390 wireless uses? In-Reply-To: <2f932a4a0905072132k1bba0a4bk6caff2f4eff1914@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f932a4a0905072132k1bba0a4bk6caff2f4eff1914@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Well whats the output of lspci ? On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Justin Brinkerhoff < justinbrinkerhoff@gmail.com> wrote: > Hey Guys, > > So decided to finally dual boot this Dell Latitude D520 I got from > work. Well, I slapped 9.04 on there, and everything works like a charm > for the most part, but the wireless of course (it's always the last > thing to work LOL). > > So question is, anyone know the exact Broadcom chipset the Dell 1390 > wireless architecture uses? I am almost positive isn't not the Airport > One 43xx chipset. > > As a positive note, I never realized how much I loved Rythymbox! LOL > Random comment I know, but I never even opened it in any distro ever > until today. I thought I'd give it a shot finally, and connected up > with last.fm, and it's so freaking awesome! laugh here> > > Anyway, back to the question, I've tried googling it, but get so many > crossed answers, I thought I'd find out for sure from the honeypot > itself :P > > Thanks in advance for the help. > > Justin > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090508/1620da38/attachment.htm From tvanry at gmail.com Fri May 8 14:22:33 2009 From: tvanry at gmail.com (Thad Van Ry) Date: Fri May 8 14:22:39 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <20090508034808.GE7119@helios.cocyt.us> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090507202926.GD7119@helios.cocyt.us> <200905072125.15072.fozz@xmission.com> <20090508034808.GE7119@helios.cocyt.us> Message-ID: <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Aaron Toponce wrote: > On Thu, May 07, 2009 at 09:25:14PM -0600, Doran L. Fozz Barton wrote: > > I gotta hand it to the BSD camp, though... they've got much sexier > mascots. > > > > Tux has to be one of the worst mascots on the Internet. Not only is it a > horrid rendition of a penguin, but it doesn't inspire what made Linus > want to use nte penguin for in the first place. The logo is very juvenile > and just can't be taken seriously. Have you actually read what Linus wanted in the mascot? To quote him: "Ok, so we should be thinking of a lovable, cuddly, stuffed penguin sitting down after having gorged itself on herring." [1] How does the current incarnation of Tux not fit with that description? Thad 1 - http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/9605/0855.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090508/a5ddeea2/attachment.htm From thatch45 at gmail.com Fri May 8 14:34:23 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Fri May 8 14:34:32 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090507202926.GD7119@helios.cocyt.us> <200905072125.15072.fozz@xmission.com> <20090508034808.GE7119@helios.cocyt.us> <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> NOW comes the hard part. With this image firmly etched on your eyeballs, you then scetch a stylizied version of it. Not a lot of detail - just a black brush-type outline (you know the effect you get with a brush where the thickness of the line varies). THAT requires talent. Give people the outline, and they should say [ sickly sweet voice, babytalk almost ]"Ooh, what a cuddly penguin, I bet he is just _stuffed_ with herring", and small children will jump up and down and scream "mommy mommy, can I have one too?". [1] 1 - http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/9605/0855.html For any of you who know my daugher, Hannah (3 years old), she has many times said: "daddy daddy, can I have a tux?" I couldn't be more proud! On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Thad Van Ry wrote: > On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Aaron Toponce wrote: > >> On Thu, May 07, 2009 at 09:25:14PM -0600, Doran L. Fozz Barton wrote: >> > I gotta hand it to the BSD camp, though... they've got much sexier >> mascots. >> >> >> >> Tux has to be one of the worst mascots on the Internet. Not only is it a >> horrid rendition of a penguin, but it doesn't inspire what made Linus >> want to use nte penguin for in the first place. The logo is very juvenile >> and just can't be taken seriously. > > > Have you actually read what Linus wanted in the mascot? To quote him: > > "Ok, so we should be thinking of a lovable, cuddly, stuffed penguin > sitting down after having gorged itself on herring." [1] > > How does the current incarnation of Tux not fit with that description? > > Thad > > 1 - http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/9605/0855.html > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090508/f6789a72/attachment.html From justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com Fri May 8 18:13:33 2009 From: justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com (Justin Brinkerhoff) Date: Fri May 8 18:13:36 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Anyone know what the exact Broadcom chipset the Dell 1390 wireless uses? In-Reply-To: References: <2f932a4a0905072132k1bba0a4bk6caff2f4eff1914@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f932a4a0905081713q6a443455xcadfda23cb84d659@mail.gmail.com> LOL I should've done that to begin with.... I guess it was 43xx. I just loaded it through Restricted Drivers, and rebooted, and walla! :P Thanks Steve for shining the light on that ID10T moment! On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 8:31 AM, Steven Morrey wrote: > Well whats the output of lspci ? > > On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 10:32 PM, Justin Brinkerhoff > wrote: >> >> Hey Guys, >> >> So decided to finally dual boot this Dell Latitude D520 I got from >> work. Well, I slapped 9.04 on there, and everything works like a charm >> for the most part, but the wireless of course (it's always the last >> thing to work LOL). >> >> So question is, anyone know the exact Broadcom chipset the Dell 1390 >> wireless architecture uses? I am almost positive isn't not the Airport >> One 43xx chipset. >> >> As a positive note, I never realized how much I loved Rythymbox! LOL >> Random comment I know, but I never even opened it in any distro ever >> until today. I thought I'd give it a shot finally, and connected up >> with last.fm, and it's so freaking awesome! > laugh here> >> >> Anyway, back to the question, I've tried googling it, but get so many >> crossed answers, I thought I'd find out for sure from the honeypot >> itself :P >> >> Thanks in advance for the help. >> >> Justin >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > From mike.thomas.heath at gmail.com Fri May 8 18:28:02 2009 From: mike.thomas.heath at gmail.com (Michael Heath) Date: Fri May 8 18:28:31 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Anyone know what the exact Broadcom chipset the Dell 1390 wireless uses? In-Reply-To: <2f932a4a0905072132k1bba0a4bk6caff2f4eff1914@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f932a4a0905072132k1bba0a4bk6caff2f4eff1914@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2e84de770905081728w17d6814cubab6dc3e107488d4@mail.gmail.com> I have never played with that particular Latitude model in Linux; however, the Dell Wireless 1390 chipset has several different revisions and uses several different chipsets. As far as I am aware, while some of the hcipsets are designed by Broadcom, none of them are directly equivelent to other versions of Broadcom chipset. A quick google search said that one common revision uses the BCM94311 chipset, which apparently is only supported in Ubuntu using NDISWrapper. I would start off by trying the official drivers from Dell with ndiswrapper before you try a more generic broadcom driver. Mike Heath From mike.thomas.heath at gmail.com Fri May 8 18:32:01 2009 From: mike.thomas.heath at gmail.com (Michael Heath) Date: Fri May 8 18:32:23 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Anyone know what the exact Broadcom chipset the Dell 1390 wireless uses? In-Reply-To: <2f932a4a0905081713q6a443455xcadfda23cb84d659@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f932a4a0905072132k1bba0a4bk6caff2f4eff1914@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905081713q6a443455xcadfda23cb84d659@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2e84de770905081732w2f295c1fh1f92e2ff69e045be@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Justin Brinkerhoff wrote: > I guess it was 43xx. I just loaded it through Restricted Drivers, and > rebooted, and walla! :P And proof that I need to make better use of GMail's "New Message...Update COnversation?" Dialog before finishing my replies. I completely forgot about the possibility of supported Broadcom Propreitary drivers. I'll warn you that on my Dell Mini (Different wireless chipset), I was using the broadcom proprietary drivers and had all kinds of problems with advanced encryption / authentication systems, but its working fine with equivelent open source drivers. From justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com Fri May 8 18:37:29 2009 From: justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com (Justin Brinkerhoff) Date: Fri May 8 18:37:38 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Anyone know what the exact Broadcom chipset the Dell 1390 wireless uses? In-Reply-To: <2e84de770905081728w17d6814cubab6dc3e107488d4@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f932a4a0905072132k1bba0a4bk6caff2f4eff1914@mail.gmail.com> <2e84de770905081728w17d6814cubab6dc3e107488d4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f932a4a0905081737h1aa867f3l20a43b2436bd7f57@mail.gmail.com> I agree with you there. I am using the BCM43xx for now, and it seems to be detected in wireless extensions, and seeing SSID's now, so I'll watch it, and see how well it does over the next while, and whether the connections are unstable and such. If they are, switch drivers. If not, why bother... :P On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Michael Heath wrote: > I have never played with that particular Latitude model in Linux; > however, the Dell Wireless 1390 chipset has several different > revisions and uses several different chipsets. As far as I am aware, > while some of the hcipsets are designed by Broadcom, none of them are > directly equivelent to other versions of Broadcom chipset. > > A quick google search said that one common revision uses the BCM94311 > chipset, which apparently is only supported in Ubuntu using > NDISWrapper. > > I would start off by trying the official drivers from Dell with > ndiswrapper before you try a more generic broadcom driver. > > > Mike Heath > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com Fri May 8 18:39:10 2009 From: justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com (Justin Brinkerhoff) Date: Fri May 8 18:39:17 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Anyone know what the exact Broadcom chipset the Dell 1390 wireless uses? In-Reply-To: <2e84de770905081732w2f295c1fh1f92e2ff69e045be@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f932a4a0905072132k1bba0a4bk6caff2f4eff1914@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905081713q6a443455xcadfda23cb84d659@mail.gmail.com> <2e84de770905081732w2f295c1fh1f92e2ff69e045be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f932a4a0905081739m8cf5062ybe087bdfd87edc41@mail.gmail.com> That's good to know. :) Thanks Mike. On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Michael Heath wrote: > On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Justin Brinkerhoff > wrote: > >> I guess it was 43xx. I just loaded it through Restricted Drivers, and >> rebooted, and walla! :P > > And proof that I need to make better use of GMail's "New > Message...Update COnversation?" Dialog before finishing my replies. > > I completely forgot about the possibility of supported Broadcom > Propreitary drivers. I'll warn you that on my Dell Mini (Different > wireless chipset), I was using the broadcom proprietary drivers and > had all kinds of problems with advanced encryption / authentication > systems, but its working fine with equivelent open source drivers. > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com Sat May 9 13:33:52 2009 From: justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com (Justin Brinkerhoff) Date: Sat May 9 13:33:56 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Anyone got Evolution working with Exchange/OWA 2007? Message-ID: <2f932a4a0905091233w1ec4cfb2g5fb808d680e153a@mail.gmail.com> Anyone had any luck getting Evolution to work with Exchange 07? I've tried Googling it, and a lot of results say to use OpenChange, but I go to the OpenChange site, and it says it will be part of Gnome 2.26, which Ubuntu 9.04 has Gnome 2.26.1, but have no clue how or where to find it. I tried an apt-cache search, but the only results are a command line exchange client, server, and something else. And of course in Evolution says it only works with OWA 2000/2003. Anyone found a workaround to this? From aaron.toponce at gmail.com Sat May 9 14:36:24 2009 From: aaron.toponce at gmail.com (Aaron Toponce) Date: Sat May 9 14:36:32 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Anyone got Evolution working with Exchange/OWA 2007? In-Reply-To: <2f932a4a0905091233w1ec4cfb2g5fb808d680e153a@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f932a4a0905091233w1ec4cfb2g5fb808d680e153a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090509203624.GH7119@helios.cocyt.us> On Sat, May 09, 2009 at 01:33:52PM -0600, Justin Brinkerhoff wrote: > Anyone had any luck getting Evolution to work with Exchange 07? Yes. I use it at work. > I've tried Googling it, and a lot of results say to use OpenChange, > but I go to the OpenChange site, and it says it will be part of Gnome > 2.26, which Ubuntu 9.04 has Gnome 2.26.1, but have no clue how or > where to find it. I tried an apt-cache search, but the only results > are a command line exchange client, server, and something else. sudo aptitude install evolution-mapi. Then setup Evolution to connect to the Exchange server. The only catch is that MAPI must be enabled in the Exchange 2007 server. Otherwise, it's a no-go. -- . O . O . O . . O O . . . O . . . O . O O O . O . O O . . O O O O . O . . O O O O . O O O -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 490 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090509/ff26255d/attachment.pgp From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Sat May 9 14:58:31 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Sat May 9 14:58:33 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090507202926.GD7119@helios.cocyt.us> <200905072125.15072.fozz@xmission.com> <20090508034808.GE7119@helios.cocyt.us> <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: that's really funny - I didn't know Linus wanted tux to play ice hockey with the freebsd demon! lol... how would I present open-source to someone who has decided that free can not possibly be better that paid creations? of course we all need to know this... he wants proof that free is better. what do I do? On 5/8/09, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > NOW comes the hard part. With this image firmly etched on your eyeballs, > you > then scetch a stylizied version of it. Not a lot of detail - just a black > brush-type outline (you know the effect you get with a brush where the > thickness of the line varies). THAT requires talent. Give people the > outline, and they should say [ sickly sweet voice, babytalk almost ]"Ooh, > what a cuddly penguin, I bet he is just _stuffed_ with herring", and small > children will jump up and down and scream "mommy mommy, can I have one > too?". [1] > > 1 - http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/9605/0855.html > > > For any of you who know my daugher, Hannah (3 years old), she has many times > said: > > "daddy daddy, can I have a tux?" > > I couldn't be more proud! > > > > > On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Thad Van Ry wrote: > >> On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Aaron Toponce >> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, May 07, 2009 at 09:25:14PM -0600, Doran L. Fozz Barton wrote: >>> > I gotta hand it to the BSD camp, though... they've got much sexier >>> mascots. >>> >>> >>> >>> Tux has to be one of the worst mascots on the Internet. Not only is it a >>> horrid rendition of a penguin, but it doesn't inspire what made Linus >>> want to use nte penguin for in the first place. The logo is very juvenile >>> and just can't be taken seriously. >> >> >> Have you actually read what Linus wanted in the mascot? To quote him: >> >> "Ok, so we should be thinking of a lovable, cuddly, stuffed penguin >> sitting down after having gorged itself on herring." [1] >> >> How does the current incarnation of Tux not fit with that description? >> >> Thad >> >> 1 - http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/9605/0855.html >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> >> > -- the blendmaster From justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com Sat May 9 15:23:47 2009 From: justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com (Justin Brinkerhoff) Date: Sat May 9 15:23:57 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Anyone got Evolution working with Exchange/OWA 2007? In-Reply-To: <20090509203624.GH7119@helios.cocyt.us> References: <2f932a4a0905091233w1ec4cfb2g5fb808d680e153a@mail.gmail.com> <20090509203624.GH7119@helios.cocyt.us> Message-ID: <2f932a4a0905091423u62dd3acj483a5174856ae78e@mail.gmail.com> Sorry for the delayed response. Was waiting for VLC to download first. Ok, got it loaded, now what are the proper arguments? Should Server be the URL to OWA? Username and Domain are self explanatory, but not sure if I'm using the right arguments. On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Aaron Toponce wrote: > On Sat, May 09, 2009 at 01:33:52PM -0600, Justin Brinkerhoff wrote: >> Anyone had any luck getting Evolution to work with Exchange 07? > > Yes. I use it at work. > >> I've tried Googling it, and a lot of results say to use OpenChange, >> but I go to the OpenChange site, and it says it will be part of Gnome >> 2.26, which Ubuntu 9.04 has Gnome 2.26.1, but have no clue how or >> where to find it. I tried an apt-cache search, but the only results >> are a command line exchange client, server, and something else. > > sudo aptitude install evolution-mapi. Then setup Evolution to connect > to the Exchange server. The only catch is that MAPI must be enabled in > the Exchange 2007 server. Otherwise, it's a no-go. > > -- > . O . ? O . O ? . . O ? O . . ? . O . > . . O ? . O O ? O . O ? . O O ? . . O > O O O ? . O . ? . O O ? O O . ? O O O > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) > > iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJKBelHAAoJEM55Ebf8BAiPyCUH/3K8B5qwxQM8NAKjyNjLdtD5 > 6+lwJMHWkf0XQbShD6RyfgJy+/Aqfdq9Qkkly/Ejocb8fiZsJUqeBU4ExexTto7U > 0oJr//zAOwvE5fOmPZmwXmSsfFvc/i8kqjyQtWqI786BOyLItEnvxW6h6jT7Cn/a > urfzL1KiZxb0LYVyT8v6oGIEXR4HBAvMKS2G0Xz4qsZaUwg/Q7Juv0znsnkEcOdS > 9YT7Q7hZXodlT/rE6QWjAX2nofbAiueOQezOx7FQwayo3rWJ8FFjovV12koxe7ly > 2ErUE8AIjJDGYIRuyiNt13ZrHkrDfc1zxyAhXbNLh/ozTjVWExKOiWYuLMNH9OA= > =NS8q > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > From justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com Sat May 9 15:26:58 2009 From: justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com (Justin Brinkerhoff) Date: Sat May 9 15:27:06 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090507202926.GD7119@helios.cocyt.us> <200905072125.15072.fozz@xmission.com> <20090508034808.GE7119@helios.cocyt.us> <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> That is a tough one. Bring a live cd of Ubuntu or Knoppix or something, and show him what it can do out of box. Explain to him that when changes are wanted/needed to an app, you don't have to pay for it; just let the developers know, and they'll usually help if your not a programmer yourself. Open source usually provides for expandability. Applications you'd typically use can be used traditionally without half the hassle, things like that. On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 2:58 PM, Christian Horne wrote: > that's really funny - I didn't know Linus wanted tux to play ice > hockey with the freebsd demon! lol... > > > how would I present open-source to someone who has decided that free > can not possibly be better that paid creations? > of course we all need to know this... > > he wants proof that free is better. what do I do? > > On 5/8/09, Thomas S Hatch wrote: >> ?NOW comes the hard part. With this image firmly etched on your eyeballs, >> you >> then scetch a stylizied version of it. Not a lot of detail - just a black >> brush-type outline (you know the effect you get with a brush where the >> thickness of the line varies). THAT requires talent. Give people the >> outline, and they should say [ sickly sweet voice, babytalk almost ]"Ooh, >> what a cuddly penguin, I bet he is just _stuffed_ with herring", and small >> children will jump up and down and scream "mommy mommy, can I have one >> too?". [1] >> >> 1 - http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/9605/0855.html >> >> >> For any of you who know my daugher, Hannah (3 years old), she has many times >> said: >> >> "daddy daddy, can I have a tux?" >> >> I couldn't be more proud! >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Thad Van Ry wrote: >> >>> On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 9:48 PM, Aaron Toponce >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, May 07, 2009 at 09:25:14PM -0600, Doran L. Fozz Barton wrote: >>>> > I gotta hand it to the BSD camp, though... they've got much sexier >>>> mascots. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Tux has to be one of the worst mascots on the Internet. Not only is it a >>>> horrid rendition of a penguin, but it doesn't inspire what made Linus >>>> want to use nte penguin for in the first place. The logo is very juvenile >>>> and just can't be taken seriously. >>> >>> >>> Have you actually read what Linus wanted in the mascot? To quote him: >>> >>> "Ok, so we should be thinking of a lovable, cuddly, stuffed penguin >>> sitting down after having gorged itself on herring." [1] >>> >>> How does the current incarnation of Tux not fit with that description? >>> >>> Thad >>> >>> 1 - http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/9605/0855.html >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >>> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >>> sllug-members@sllug.org >>> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >>> >>> >> > > > -- > the blendmaster > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From zspecialk at gmail.com Sat May 9 18:14:50 2009 From: zspecialk at gmail.com (Scott K) Date: Sat May 9 18:14:54 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090507202926.GD7119@helios.cocyt.us> <200905072125.15072.fozz@xmission.com> <20090508034808.GE7119@helios.cocyt.us> <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> >> he wants proof that free is better. what do I do? >> Most everyone has used some broken proprietary software. That was what inspired Stallman to start the gnu in the first place. Find the things he hates about computers and different pieces of software, and show him how open source allows you to fix the problem rather than being held hostage by the creators. Scott From jfriend31 at comcast.net Sat May 9 18:31:31 2009 From: jfriend31 at comcast.net (jack User) Date: Sat May 9 18:31:41 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Ubuntu 8.10 and SATA drive Message-ID: <1241915491.6017.8.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> today i installed a 500 GB drive, used Seagate's Disk Wizzard to move everything from the original 80 GB drive. my machine now dual boots to WinXP or Ubuntu 8.10 as it did before. i can see the old 80 GB drive in Windows but can't see it in Places in U 8.10. running ls /dev/sd* shows sda, sdb, sdc, sdd, sda1, sdb1, sdc1, sdd1 how do i help U 8.10 see the 80 GB drive? thanks, jack From justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com Sat May 9 18:38:29 2009 From: justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com (Justin Brinkerhoff) Date: Sat May 9 18:38:37 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Ubuntu 8.10 and SATA drive In-Reply-To: <1241915491.6017.8.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> References: <1241915491.6017.8.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> Message-ID: <2f932a4a0905091738g41606a5cqbff4cc8b01c70e13@mail.gmail.com> You're going to have to mount the drive, and more than likely add it to /etc/fstab. You familiar with drive mounting? On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 6:31 PM, jack User wrote: > today i installed a 500 GB drive, used Seagate's Disk Wizzard to move > everything from the original 80 GB drive. my machine now dual boots to > WinXP or Ubuntu 8.10 as it did before. i can see the old 80 GB drive in > Windows but can't see it in Places in U 8.10. > running ls /dev/sd* shows > sda, sdb, sdc, sdd, sda1, sdb1, sdc1, sdd1 > how do i help U 8.10 see the 80 GB drive? > thanks, > jack > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From jfriend31 at comcast.net Sat May 9 19:58:33 2009 From: jfriend31 at comcast.net (jack User) Date: Sat May 9 19:58:41 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Ubuntu 8.10 and SATA drive In-Reply-To: <2f932a4a0905091738g41606a5cqbff4cc8b01c70e13@mail.gmail.com> References: <1241915491.6017.8.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> <2f932a4a0905091738g41606a5cqbff4cc8b01c70e13@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1241920713.6017.9.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> sorry no i have no idea despite reading about that stuff in the literature. please enlighten me. thank you jack On Sat, 2009-05-09 at 18:38 -0600, Justin Brinkerhoff wrote: > You're going to have to mount the drive, and more than likely add it > to /etc/fstab. > > You familiar with drive mounting? > > On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 6:31 PM, jack User wrote: > > today i installed a 500 GB drive, used Seagate's Disk Wizzard to move > > everything from the original 80 GB drive. my machine now dual boots to > > WinXP or Ubuntu 8.10 as it did before. i can see the old 80 GB drive in > > Windows but can't see it in Places in U 8.10. > > running ls /dev/sd* shows > > sda, sdb, sdc, sdd, sda1, sdb1, sdc1, sdd1 > > how do i help U 8.10 see the 80 GB drive? > > thanks, > > jack > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members From jfriend31 at comcast.net Sat May 9 20:18:34 2009 From: jfriend31 at comcast.net (jack User) Date: Sat May 9 20:18:43 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Ubuntu 8.10 and SATA drive In-Reply-To: <2f932a4a0905091738g41606a5cqbff4cc8b01c70e13@mail.gmail.com> References: <1241915491.6017.8.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> <2f932a4a0905091738g41606a5cqbff4cc8b01c70e13@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1241921914.6017.12.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> looking at the df -h info i find: /dev/sdb1 75G 34G (used) /host that is the drive i want to be able to see in Ubuntu. the 34G are Windows files jack On Sat, 2009-05-09 at 18:38 -0600, Justin Brinkerhoff wrote: > You're going to have to mount the drive, and more than likely add it > to /etc/fstab. > > You familiar with drive mounting? > > On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 6:31 PM, jack User wrote: > > today i installed a 500 GB drive, used Seagate's Disk Wizzard to move > > everything from the original 80 GB drive. my machine now dual boots to > > WinXP or Ubuntu 8.10 as it did before. i can see the old 80 GB drive in > > Windows but can't see it in Places in U 8.10. > > running ls /dev/sd* shows > > sda, sdb, sdc, sdd, sda1, sdb1, sdc1, sdd1 > > how do i help U 8.10 see the 80 GB drive? > > thanks, > > jack > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members From jfriend31 at comcast.net Sat May 9 20:20:50 2009 From: jfriend31 at comcast.net (jack User) Date: Sat May 9 20:20:58 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Ubuntu 8.10 and SATA drive In-Reply-To: <2f932a4a0905091738g41606a5cqbff4cc8b01c70e13@mail.gmail.com> References: <1241915491.6017.8.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> <2f932a4a0905091738g41606a5cqbff4cc8b01c70e13@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1241922050.6017.13.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> running the comand (found online) mount /dev/sdb1 according to mtab, /dev/sdb1 is already mounted on /host mount failed On Sat, 2009-05-09 at 18:38 -0600, Justin Brinkerhoff wrote: > You're going to have to mount the drive, and more than likely add it > to /etc/fstab. > > You familiar with drive mounting? > > On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 6:31 PM, jack User wrote: > > today i installed a 500 GB drive, used Seagate's Disk Wizzard to move > > everything from the original 80 GB drive. my machine now dual boots to > > WinXP or Ubuntu 8.10 as it did before. i can see the old 80 GB drive in > > Windows but can't see it in Places in U 8.10. > > running ls /dev/sd* shows > > sda, sdb, sdc, sdd, sda1, sdb1, sdc1, sdd1 > > how do i help U 8.10 see the 80 GB drive? > > thanks, > > jack > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members From jfriend31 at comcast.net Sat May 9 20:42:53 2009 From: jfriend31 at comcast.net (jack User) Date: Sat May 9 20:43:02 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Ubuntu 8.10 and SATA drive In-Reply-To: <2f932a4a0905091738g41606a5cqbff4cc8b01c70e13@mail.gmail.com> References: <1241915491.6017.8.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> <2f932a4a0905091738g41606a5cqbff4cc8b01c70e13@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1241923373.6017.15.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> FOUND it! it is under HOST on the file system. all the files are visible also. thank you for asking the right question, Justin. jack On Sat, 2009-05-09 at 18:38 -0600, Justin Brinkerhoff wrote: > You're going to have to mount the drive, and more than likely add it > to /etc/fstab. > > You familiar with drive mounting? > > On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 6:31 PM, jack User wrote: > > today i installed a 500 GB drive, used Seagate's Disk Wizzard to move > > everything from the original 80 GB drive. my machine now dual boots to > > WinXP or Ubuntu 8.10 as it did before. i can see the old 80 GB drive in > > Windows but can't see it in Places in U 8.10. > > running ls /dev/sd* shows > > sda, sdb, sdc, sdd, sda1, sdb1, sdc1, sdd1 > > how do i help U 8.10 see the 80 GB drive? > > thanks, > > jack > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Sat May 9 23:28:16 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Sat May 9 23:28:19 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090507202926.GD7119@helios.cocyt.us> <200905072125.15072.fozz@xmission.com> <20090508034808.GE7119@helios.cocyt.us> <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: problem is, he has a peice of really amazing software to rub in my face, namely "star wars; force unleashed". and, right now, that IS better than any open-source stuff. that's great advice, what you guys said, but he is interested in games... and right now, closed source does top FOSS in that area... On 5/9/09, Scott K wrote: >>> he wants proof that free is better. what do I do? >>> > > Most everyone has used some broken proprietary software. That was what > inspired Stallman to start the gnu in the first place. Find the things > he hates about computers and different pieces of software, and show > him how open source allows you to fix the problem rather than being > held hostage by the creators. > > Scott > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From u235sentinel at gmail.com Sun May 10 08:02:49 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Sun May 10 08:02:57 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090507202926.GD7119@helios.cocyt.us> <200905072125.15072.fozz@xmission.com> <20090508034808.GE7119@helios.cocyt.us> <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A06DE89.8080104@gmail.com> Christian Horne wrote: > problem is, he has a peice of really amazing software to rub in my face, > namely "star wars; force unleashed". and, right now, that IS better than any > open-source stuff. > > that's great advice, what you guys said, but he is interested in games... > and right now, closed source does top FOSS in that area... > I don't know. Quake 4 is pretty good and I'm enjoying it thoroughly. And yes it has a native linux client which works great! I also purchased Neverwinter Nights Diamond and have that working natively in linux as well. It's an older game sorta like WoW. My kids are jealous and want me to install it on their computers as well :D There aren't many native linux commercial games out there which is why I use WINE pretty heavily. There are a great many games that work in WINE. By work I mean gold or platinum rated. So it's pretty good Now if I can only get my Mic working with Counterstrike Source it would be platinum rated in my book :-) From justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com Sun May 10 23:32:29 2009 From: justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com (Justin Brinkerhoff) Date: Sun May 10 23:32:38 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <4A06DE89.8080104@gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <200905072125.15072.fozz@xmission.com> <20090508034808.GE7119@helios.cocyt.us> <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> <4A06DE89.8080104@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f932a4a0905102232j6f7bc0bdyd253afa3f3f2dcef@mail.gmail.com> Introduce them to Cedega; http://www.transgaming.com/ On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 8:02 AM, u235sentinel wrote: > Christian Horne wrote: >> >> problem is, he has a peice of really amazing software to rub in my face, >> namely "star wars; force unleashed". and, right now, that IS better than >> any >> open-source stuff. >> >> that's great advice, what you guys said, but he is interested in games... >> and right now, closed source does top FOSS in that area... >> > > I don't know. ?Quake 4 is pretty good and I'm enjoying it thoroughly. ?And > yes it has a native linux client which works great! ?I also purchased > Neverwinter Nights Diamond and have that working natively in linux as well. > It's an older game sorta like WoW. ?My kids are jealous and want me to > install it on their computers as well :D > > There aren't many native linux commercial games out there which is why I use > WINE pretty heavily. ?There are a great many games that work in WINE. ?By > work I mean gold or platinum rated. ?So it's pretty good > > Now if I can only get my Mic working with Counterstrike Source it would be > platinum rated in my book :-) > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Mon May 11 00:10:14 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Mon May 11 00:10:17 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <2f932a4a0905102232j6f7bc0bdyd253afa3f3f2dcef@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090508034808.GE7119@helios.cocyt.us> <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> <4A06DE89.8080104@gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905102232j6f7bc0bdyd253afa3f3f2dcef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: that's not my point. my point is the open-source games, not the ability to run closed-source games. star wars: force unleashed is a game-console game anyway. the pont is that the real-time simulations (glass breaking realistically, walk through grass and ir moves, etc) are so much better than anything else out there that he has decided that there is no way anyone doing it for free could duplicate them. actually, if I had [a lot] more time, I could duplicate them fast. but I don't have 4 free hours a day available anymore... so, any ideas on what i should say? just the theory of open-source. how would I say "a million eyes make all problems shallow" to a non-programmer? On 5/10/09, Justin Brinkerhoff wrote: > Introduce them to Cedega; http://www.transgaming.com/ > > On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 8:02 AM, u235sentinel > wrote: >> Christian Horne wrote: >>> >>> problem is, he has a peice of really amazing software to rub in my face, >>> namely "star wars; force unleashed". and, right now, that IS better than >>> any >>> open-source stuff. >>> >>> that's great advice, what you guys said, but he is interested in games... >>> and right now, closed source does top FOSS in that area... >>> >> >> I don't know. ?Quake 4 is pretty good and I'm enjoying it thoroughly. ?And >> yes it has a native linux client which works great! ?I also purchased >> Neverwinter Nights Diamond and have that working natively in linux as >> well. >> It's an older game sorta like WoW. ?My kids are jealous and want me to >> install it on their computers as well :D >> >> There aren't many native linux commercial games out there which is why I >> use >> WINE pretty heavily. ?There are a great many games that work in WINE. ?By >> work I mean gold or platinum rated. ?So it's pretty good >> >> Now if I can only get my Mic working with Counterstrike Source it would be >> platinum rated in my book :-) >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com Mon May 11 00:29:15 2009 From: justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com (Justin Brinkerhoff) Date: Mon May 11 00:29:24 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> <4A06DE89.8080104@gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905102232j6f7bc0bdyd253afa3f3f2dcef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f932a4a0905102329j28080671xdc7b56e5d6e2ad58@mail.gmail.com> Well, I would explain to him the benefits of open source, the fact that each application, be game or other program, are written, callaborated, and maintained by the world. In context, if anyone decides he/she wants to duplicate a game, it takes little or no time, as code would be written, or modified, without the consent of any commercial organization without sacrificing quality. Explain to him in the open source world, there are no boundaries. I'm starting to zone out (I'm off to bed! :P), so I'm starting to tred off in left field here, but the summary of what I'm trying to say is, really portray the beauty of open source to him, and show him how capable it is. Show him some real world examples, so words can be put into action. On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 12:10 AM, Christian Horne wrote: > that's not my point. my point is the open-source games, > not the ability to run closed-source games. star wars: force unleashed > is a game-console game anyway. > > the pont is that the real-time simulations (glass breaking > realistically, walk through grass and ir moves, etc) > are so much better than anything else out there that he has > decided that there is no way anyone doing it for free could duplicate them. > > actually, if I had [a lot] more time, I could duplicate them fast. > but I don't have 4 free hours a day available anymore... > > so, any ideas on what i should say? just the theory of open-source. > how would I say "a million eyes make all problems shallow" to a > non-programmer? > > On 5/10/09, Justin Brinkerhoff wrote: >> Introduce them to Cedega; http://www.transgaming.com/ >> >> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 8:02 AM, u235sentinel >> wrote: >>> Christian Horne wrote: >>>> >>>> problem is, he has a peice of really amazing software to rub in my face, >>>> namely "star wars; force unleashed". and, right now, that IS better than >>>> any >>>> open-source stuff. >>>> >>>> that's great advice, what you guys said, but he is interested in games... >>>> and right now, closed source does top FOSS in that area... >>>> >>> >>> I don't know. ?Quake 4 is pretty good and I'm enjoying it thoroughly. ?And >>> yes it has a native linux client which works great! ?I also purchased >>> Neverwinter Nights Diamond and have that working natively in linux as >>> well. >>> It's an older game sorta like WoW. ?My kids are jealous and want me to >>> install it on their computers as well :D >>> >>> There aren't many native linux commercial games out there which is why I >>> use >>> WINE pretty heavily. ?There are a great many games that work in WINE. ?By >>> work I mean gold or platinum rated. ?So it's pretty good >>> >>> Now if I can only get my Mic working with Counterstrike Source it would be >>> platinum rated in my book :-) >>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >>> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >>> sllug-members@sllug.org >>> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >>> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> > > > -- > the blendmaster > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From unum at unum5.org Mon May 11 10:48:40 2009 From: unum at unum5.org (Kyle Waters) Date: Mon May 11 10:48:55 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090507202926.GD7119@helios.cocyt.us> <200905072125.15072.fozz@xmission.com> <20090508034808.GE7119@helios.cocyt.us> <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A0856E8.7010304@unum5.org> Christian Horne wrote: > problem is, he has a peice of really amazing software to rub in my face, > namely "star wars; force unleashed". and, right now, that IS better than any > open-source stuff. > > There are two camps. Free Software and Open Source. Many people don't know this, but the Stallman (founder of the Free Software movement) has never claimed technical superiority of Free Software. In fact I heard him refer to flash as being a superior product that has not been matched by the Free Software movement(this was several years ago). The Open Source people claim technical superiority. I have spoken with Bruce Perens(cofounder of the Open Source movement) on a couple of different occasions. On one occasion I asked him about games an open source, and he said he thought there would always be a market for closed source games. So if you are trying to argue that open source development creates better games, I don't think you will find as many people on your side as you think. Kyle From sllug at ryansimpkins.com Mon May 11 14:15:28 2009 From: sllug at ryansimpkins.com (Ryan Simpkins) Date: Mon May 11 14:15:42 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: May PLUG Meeting; The Open Source Datacenter Message-ID: <58926.64.0.192.232.1242072928.squirrel@io.ryansimpkins.com> You guys up north are invited too. PLUG <3 SLLUG Date: May 13th, 2009 Time: 7:30 PM - 9:30 PM Location: Omniture, Inc. Building H this month. FREE FOOD provided by Omniture! PLUG: I apologize for getting this out so late! Be sure to come. This is going to be a great presentation. Dan manages over 15,000 Linux servers. You may not have that many, but the lessons learned can help anyone who is using Linux as a server (from few to many). From Dan: "During the last 10 years of system administration I have been involved in a number of data center migrations and build-outs. As these projects came and went I began to see patterns emerge in the set of services and software required to run a successful operations infrastructure. This presentation will describe these patterns, and provide an overview of the Open Source software available to implement them." About Dan: Dan Hanks has been involved with Linux System administration since 1998, when he worked for EagleNet Online, a small ISP in Provo, which, in a sense, was the birthplace of PLUG. After EagleNet he worked as a systems and database administrator for Nothsky/About.com/Primedia/United Online and is currently a system administrator for Omniture. He has varied interests, ranging from computers and technology to astronomy, geology, music, art, and family history research. He holds a Bachelor's degree in Computer Science from BYU, and is the father of 4 adventuresome children. He (occasionally) blogs at http://brainshed.com, and tweets as @danhanks. See you all there! From lookmomnohands at gmail.com Mon May 11 15:19:53 2009 From: lookmomnohands at gmail.com (lookmomnohands@gmail.com) Date: Mon May 11 15:21:32 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Re: Appreciate Linux In-Reply-To: References: <1688873556-1241653401-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1948593383-@bxe1179.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <1428578861-1242076875-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1837900678-@bxe1179.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Great comments, actually. I'm going to say one thing to your standards note, and actually find a way to get your comments cut and pasted to my blog, and or onto one of my forums, for discussion. My follow up to your standards issue would actually be to have you look at the lack of standardization from Windows TO anything else. First, we all know how they don't play nice with any of the other kids, that goes to file system interpretation, open documents, flash vs. "silverlight," web protocols- (WINS is a huge mimicking act if you think about it). Anyway, I don't have any hatred for the man, but I will say one thing. MS is only the standard because of penetration. Bill pays everyone to think he's the best, and suddenly everyone forgets how wrong the whole concept is. NO flame intended, I just think that M$ never has done anything on a basis of "what's best for others" as opposed to "what's best for M$". They push the market, and that's helping in leaps and bounds, but you don't see Palm, or RIM or Apple for that matter, crying because MS won't share- they just conform so as to work with the rest of the .doc formatted world, for the Lusers who can't see their data getting stolen through yet another hole in the Window. I'll give you the point that MS Exchange is the best email server I've dealt with, but then again that's a pretty small podium. Outlook is probably Exchanges worst nightmare, especially since they couldn't resist putting that web browser in. I'm not trying to convince you to switch over without due diligence. Not even after, but I know that YOU at least aren't scared to try it, and eventually maybe paying for Windows7 will swing your vote. Either way, let's both keep an open mind, and hope that others do the same. I'll have to watch the video tonight: ---- Oh yea.. and someone sent this to me. It is funny, and relevant to your email. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gm2AojOHDw Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: "QuakeDragon" Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 14:26:12 To: Subject: Re: Appreciate Linux Well this came out of the blue... though I won't appreciate linux as you suggested, as there are far too many flavors to deal with. I certainly do appreciate the GNU licensing scheme and what linux represents. Once they start supporting XP updates, I'll be off the Microsoft bandwagon for a home OS and finally make the transition over to Ubuntu and use virtualization for my requires-Microsoft software... but as it stands right now, my current job and even past jobs are because it was Microsoft products that the company owners chose. Without yin there is no yang.. without Microsoft there is no Apple (running a flavor of Unix) or the GNU versions of Linux. Precious Ubuntu would not exist without a standard of interfaces provided by Microsoft, for them to 'mimic'. For now, I'll stick with Windows. But don't try to tell me to honor linux, and not MS. > > I don't know if you realize, but Linux is probably what got me > my current job. I figure that there could have been some fairly > qualified individuals who interviewed, and yet may not have had > the experience that I have outside of "Windoze." that being > said, my hobby immediately paid off, and continues to take care > of our family. I would have to say that is a generally > reasonable idea to support the hobby- and to keep learning as > much as I can. Linux now has made news by claiming 1% of the > market. That isn't anything huge, of course, but overall that > IS saying something! I've heard less conservative estimates > which were YEARS ago, and far greater in number, I believe. All > of these things add up to one statement: We have received many > benefits from Linux; appreciate Linux; respect Linux. > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Delivered using the Free Personal Edition of Mailtraq (www.mailtraq.com) > ________________________________________________________________________ Delivered using the Free Personal Edition of Mailtraq (www.mailtraq.com) From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Mon May 11 15:41:10 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Mon May 11 15:41:16 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <4A0856E8.7010304@unum5.org> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <200905072125.15072.fozz@xmission.com> <20090508034808.GE7119@helios.cocyt.us> <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> <4A0856E8.7010304@unum5.org> Message-ID: flash is NOT superior. it's great... but too slow for a 390MHz processor. which what I have. silly Stallman. and free software vs open-source software? open-source will 75% of the time be better than closed source. I think commercial open-source (you get a licence to the source with a licence to the binary, but thay're the same licence, not like LGPL or something) is a really cool idea, and too few people implement it. On 5/11/09, Kyle Waters wrote: > Christian Horne wrote: >> problem is, he has a peice of really amazing software to rub in my face, >> namely "star wars; force unleashed". and, right now, that IS better than >> any >> open-source stuff. >> >> > > There are two camps. Free Software and Open Source. Many people don't > know this, but the Stallman (founder of the Free Software movement) has > never claimed technical superiority of Free Software. In fact I heard > him refer to flash as being a superior product that has not been matched > by the Free Software movement(this was several years ago). > > The Open Source people claim technical superiority. I have spoken with > Bruce Perens(cofounder of the Open Source movement) on a couple of > different occasions. On one occasion I asked him about games an open > source, and he said he thought there would always be a market for closed > source games. So if you are trying to argue that open source > development creates better games, I don't think you will find as many > people on your side as you think. > > Kyle > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From jeffquiparle at gmail.com Mon May 11 15:59:16 2009 From: jeffquiparle at gmail.com (Jeff Shipley) Date: Mon May 11 15:59:20 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090508034808.GE7119@helios.cocyt.us> <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> <4A0856E8.7010304@unum5.org> Message-ID: Flash probably IS superior to gnash. On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Christian Horne wrote: > flash is NOT superior. it's great... but too slow for a 390MHz > processor. which what I have. > silly Stallman. > > and free software vs open-source software? open-source will 75% of the > time be better than closed source. > I think commercial open-source (you get a licence to the source with a > licence to the binary, but thay're the same licence, not like LGPL or > something) > is a really cool idea, and too few people implement it. > > On 5/11/09, Kyle Waters wrote: >> Christian Horne wrote: >>> problem is, he has a peice of really amazing software to rub in my face, >>> namely "star wars; force unleashed". and, right now, that IS better than >>> any >>> open-source stuff. >>> >>> >> >> There are two camps. ?Free Software and Open Source. ?Many people don't >> know this, but the Stallman (founder of the Free Software movement) has >> never claimed technical superiority of Free Software. ?In fact I heard >> him refer to flash as being a superior product that has not been matched >> by the Free Software movement(this was several years ago). >> >> The Open Source people claim technical superiority. ?I have spoken with >> Bruce Perens(cofounder of the Open Source movement) on a couple of >> different occasions. ?On one occasion I asked him about games an open >> source, and he said he thought there would always be a market for closed >> source games. ? ?So if you are trying to argue that open source >> development creates better games, I don't think you will find as many >> people on your side as you think. >> >> Kyle >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> > > > -- > the blendmaster > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Mon May 11 16:08:20 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Mon May 11 16:08:22 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> <4A0856E8.7010304@unum5.org> Message-ID: uhhhhh... what's gnash? On 5/11/09, Jeff Shipley wrote: > Flash probably IS superior to gnash. > > On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Christian Horne > wrote: >> flash is NOT superior. it's great... but too slow for a 390MHz >> processor. which what I have. >> silly Stallman. >> >> and free software vs open-source software? open-source will 75% of the >> time be better than closed source. >> I think commercial open-source (you get a licence to the source with a >> licence to the binary, but thay're the same licence, not like LGPL or >> something) >> is a really cool idea, and too few people implement it. >> >> On 5/11/09, Kyle Waters wrote: >>> Christian Horne wrote: >>>> problem is, he has a peice of really amazing software to rub in my face, >>>> namely "star wars; force unleashed". and, right now, that IS better than >>>> any >>>> open-source stuff. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> There are two camps. ?Free Software and Open Source. ?Many people don't >>> know this, but the Stallman (founder of the Free Software movement) has >>> never claimed technical superiority of Free Software. ?In fact I heard >>> him refer to flash as being a superior product that has not been matched >>> by the Free Software movement(this was several years ago). >>> >>> The Open Source people claim technical superiority. ?I have spoken with >>> Bruce Perens(cofounder of the Open Source movement) on a couple of >>> different occasions. ?On one occasion I asked him about games an open >>> source, and he said he thought there would always be a market for closed >>> source games. ? ?So if you are trying to argue that open source >>> development creates better games, I don't think you will find as many >>> people on your side as you think. >>> >>> Kyle >>> ______________________________________________________________________ >>> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >>> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >>> sllug-members@sllug.org >>> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >>> >> >> >> -- >> the blendmaster >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From jeffquiparle at gmail.com Mon May 11 16:16:31 2009 From: jeffquiparle at gmail.com (Jeff Shipley) Date: Mon May 11 16:16:32 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> <4A0856E8.7010304@unum5.org> Message-ID: On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Christian Horne wrote: > uhhhhh... what's gnash? http://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/ It's the GNU version of the Flash player From jeffquiparle at gmail.com Mon May 11 16:18:37 2009 From: jeffquiparle at gmail.com (Jeff Shipley) Date: Mon May 11 16:18:39 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> <4A0856E8.7010304@unum5.org> Message-ID: Another thing I've found--although many PDF readers do a pretty good job, adobe reader accurately renders some PDFs that other readers mess up. Also, if you have to digitally sign a PDF, adobe reader works best. From stevehildebrand757 at yahoo.com Mon May 11 16:43:43 2009 From: stevehildebrand757 at yahoo.com (Steve Hildebrand) Date: Mon May 11 16:43:52 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Re: Ubuntu interfaces In-Reply-To: <200905112216.n4BMGcBe004822@sllug.org> References: <200905112216.n4BMGcBe004822@sllug.org> Message-ID: <937609.45095.qm@web90406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> -----Original Message----- From: "QuakeDragon" Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 14:26:12 To: Subject: Re: Appreciate Linux Well this came out of the blue... though I won't appreciate linux as you suggested, as there are far too many flavors to deal with. I certainly do appreciate the GNU licensing scheme and what linux represents. Once they start supporting XP updates, I'll be off the Microsoft bandwagon for a home OS and finally make the transition over to Ubuntu and use virtualization for my requires-Microsoft software... but as it stands right now, my current job and even past jobs are because it was Microsoft products that the company owners chose. Without yin there is no yang.. without Microsoft there is no Apple (running a flavor of Unix) or the GNU versions of Linux. Precious Ubuntu would not exist without a standard of interfaces provided by Microsoft, for them to 'mimic'. For now, I'll stick with Windows. But don't try to tell me to honor linux, and not MS. Windows swiped that interface from Xerox, just like Apple did. And the other 'standard interfaces' you are likely referring to were swiped from Unix systems. Microsoft did just about all of their OS programming on a Sun server running UNIX until the late 90s or early 00s. It's practically UNIX with the serial numbers filed off, and a new coat of paint. ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090511/b2526f0d/attachment.htm From lookmomnohands at gmail.com Mon May 11 17:25:45 2009 From: lookmomnohands at gmail.com (lookmomnohands@gmail.com) Date: Mon May 11 17:27:21 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Re: appreciate linux- any comments welcome! Message-ID: <1440237888-1242084430-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1273904657-@bxe1179.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> KC continues: touch?. You do make ~many~ valid points. Particularly about paying for Windows... MS hands me licenses for use at home and believe it or not, I am on the up-and-up for MS Licensing these days... I used various promos and methods to obtain these legit licenses... but no, as a 'leading expert' I didn't pay a nickle for a single one. As for payoffs.. nearly everyone is a whore. Some are just more expensive to buy than others... and price is really no object when M$ is concerned. Slightly off-topic, but relevant to this discussion... call it 'proof' that MS could have done it, if they just used their heads. A fairly recent project was ressurected that I was involved in. We called it "Windows XP SP3 Performance Edition." A few of us got together and tore apart win xp, removing all the junk we believed did not belong. We then made sure to add up all the updates (current as of April 2009) and tested the hell out of it. By revision 2 it was solid like a felsic igneous rock. (read: granite.) If you want to see the full changelogs of our work, I'm afraid you'll be going over about four pages of information. However, in the end you get a lean, very responsive and clean OS that runs better than any Windows I have used before. No Media Player (just install VLC or winamp... we all knew that's what you'd do anyway! :P), no complex screensavers, and no horseschit that few/nobody ever uses or needs. We credited the system after the guy who put in the most work... a fairly young fella who goes by TJ007s13. A search for the above mentioned title on TPB will get you a copy. Is it legal? Not one bit. We violated every TOS and good-faith agreement possible in this educational project. How big is the install iso size, you ask? 279 Megs How big is the final installation? just under 500 megs in a virtualized environment. Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile From u235sentinel at gmail.com Mon May 11 17:37:32 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Mon May 11 17:37:36 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <2f932a4a0905102232j6f7bc0bdyd253afa3f3f2dcef@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <200905072125.15072.fozz@xmission.com> <20090508034808.GE7119@helios.cocyt.us> <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> <4A06DE89.8080104@gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905102232j6f7bc0bdyd253afa3f3f2dcef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A08B6BC.1030001@gmail.com> I've had better success with WINE itself. Cedega and Crossover gave me some heartburn. I'm looking at purchasing Crossover Games just so I can support their efforts. I may use it.. maybe. But 7.20 had issues with my games. Kinda weird. Justin Brinkerhoff wrote: > Introduce them to Cedega; http://www.transgaming.com/ > > On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 8:02 AM, u235sentinel wrote: > From aaron.toponce at gmail.com Mon May 11 22:28:31 2009 From: aaron.toponce at gmail.com (Aaron Toponce) Date: Mon May 11 22:28:43 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Re: Appreciate Linux In-Reply-To: <1428578861-1242076875-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1837900678-@bxe1179.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <1688873556-1241653401-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1948593383-@bxe1179.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <1428578861-1242076875-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1837900678-@bxe1179.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <20090512042831.GL7119@helios.cocyt.us> On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 09:19:53PM +0000, lookmomnohands@gmail.com wrote: > Great comments, actually. I'm going to say one thing to your standards note, and actually find a way to get your comments cut and pasted to my blog, and or onto one of my forums, for discussion. > My follow up to your standards issue would actually be to have you look at the lack of standardization from Windows TO anything else. First, we all know how they don't play nice with any of the other kids, that goes to file system interpretation, open documents, flash vs. "silverlight," web protocols- (WINS is a huge mimicking act if you think about it). Anyway, I don't have any hatred for the man, but I will say one thing. MS is only the standard because of penetration. Bill pays everyone to think he's the best, and suddenly everyone forgets how wrong the whole concept is. NO flame intended, I just think that M$ never has done anything on a basis of "what's best for others" as opposed to "what's best for M$". They push the market, and that's helping in leaps and bounds, but you don't see Palm, or RIM or Apple for that matter, crying because MS won't share- they just conform so as to work with the rest of the .doc formatted world, for the Lusers who can't see their data getting stolen through yet another hole in the Window. I'll give you the point that MS Exchange is the best email server I've dealt with, but then again that's a pretty small podium. Outlook is probably Exchanges worst nightmare, especially since they couldn't resist putting that web browser in. I'm not trying to convince you to switch over without due diligence. Not even after, but I know that YOU at least aren't scared to try it, and eventually maybe paying for Windows7 will swing your vote. Either way, let's both keep an open mind, and hope that others do the same. I'll have to watch the video tonight: WOW. My eyes started bleeding before I even got to the second line. It's funny too, because not 2 or 3 days ago, I asked why 80 characters was still the standard width for coding, documentation and email, despite the capability of my monitor and video card. Now I can clearly see why. Please, please, please, wrap your email after 72 characters. This gives room for relpy wakkas '>' and still manages to keep it under 80 characters. Break topics up into paragraphs. Simplify your mail. Think to yourself "Can I read it?" -- . O . O . O . . O O . . . O . . . O . O O O . O . O O . . O O O O . O . . O O O O . O O O -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 490 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090511/d7f3ceb0/attachment.pgp From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Mon May 11 23:39:41 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Mon May 11 23:39:44 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <4A08B6BC.1030001@gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> <4A06DE89.8080104@gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905102232j6f7bc0bdyd253afa3f3f2dcef@mail.gmail.com> <4A08B6BC.1030001@gmail.com> Message-ID: I think that putting wine under the lgpl was a really bad idea. all these people are abusing the reason it was put on the lgpl: to allow a library version so that windows code could be compiled to be linux native. sheesh, crossover, cedega, why not just help with WINE? seriously... On 5/11/09, u235sentinel wrote: > I've had better success with WINE itself. Cedega and Crossover gave me > some heartburn. > > I'm looking at purchasing Crossover Games just so I can support their > efforts. I may use it.. maybe. But 7.20 had issues with my games. > > Kinda weird. > > > > Justin Brinkerhoff wrote: >> Introduce them to Cedega; http://www.transgaming.com/ >> >> On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 8:02 AM, u235sentinel >> wrote: >> > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Tue May 12 00:20:30 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Tue May 12 00:20:34 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Re: appreciate linux- any comments welcome! In-Reply-To: <1440237888-1242084430-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1273904657-@bxe1179.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <1440237888-1242084430-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1273904657-@bxe1179.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: dude, that's a really dangerous thing to be doing... On 5/11/09, lookmomnohands@gmail.com wrote: > KC continues: > touch?. You do make ~many~ valid points. Particularly about > paying for Windows... MS hands me licenses for use at home and > believe it or not, I am on the up-and-up for MS Licensing > these days... I used various promos and methods to obtain these > legit licenses... but no, as a 'leading expert' I didn't pay a > nickle for a single one. > > As for payoffs.. nearly everyone is a whore. Some are just more > expensive to buy than others... and price is really no object > when M$ is concerned. > > Slightly off-topic, but relevant to this discussion... call it > 'proof' that MS could have done it, if they just used their > heads. > > A fairly recent project was ressurected that I was involved in. > We called it "Windows XP SP3 Performance Edition." A few of us > got together and tore apart win xp, removing all the junk we > believed did not belong. We then made sure to add up all the > updates (current as of April 2009) and tested the hell out of > it. By revision 2 it was solid like a felsic igneous rock. > (read: granite.) > > If you want to see the full changelogs of our work, I'm afraid > you'll be going over about four pages of information. > > However, in the end you get a lean, very responsive and clean > OS that runs better than any Windows I have used before. No > Media Player (just install VLC or winamp... we all knew that's > what you'd do anyway! :P), no complex screensavers, and no > horseschit that few/nobody ever uses or needs. > > We credited the system after the guy who put in the most > work... a fairly young fella who goes by TJ007s13. A search for > the above mentioned title on TPB will get you a copy. > > Is it legal? Not one bit. We violated every TOS and good-faith > agreement possible in this educational project. > How big is the install iso size, you ask? 279 Megs > How big is the final installation? just under 500 megs in a > virtualized environment. > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -- the blendmaster From fozz at xmission.com Tue May 12 12:53:48 2009 From: fozz at xmission.com (Doran L. Barton) Date: Tue May 12 12:53:57 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: JOB: Senior Linux administrator w/ diverse skillset Message-ID: <200905121253.48494.fozz@xmission.com> This is a repeat posting of a previous post in an attempt to increase eyeball exposure. I won't do it again. See the full job description below for all the criteria. I'll tell you right off the bat that we're looking for serious administrator and ACR will pay generously/competitively for the right person. Send resumes (*not* in Word format, thank you very much) to itjobs@acrllc.com. Also, don't look at http://www.acrllc.com/ as the shining example of the company's line-up. It's badly out of date and the designers have been working on a replacement for it. If you get an interview, you'll get to see all the cool stuff the company is working on (and if you get the job, you can push the designers' work live! :)) If you have any questions, you may direct them to me. Job description follows: ACR International is a holding company in Provo that operates several web- based businesses. We are looking for a Linux systems administrator with a diverse set of skills to help manage infrastructure for a fast-growing website. The ideal candidate should meet the following requirements: - Substantial experience administering Linux, especially Red Hat Enterprise, CentOS, and/or Fedora Linux installations. RHCE is a plus but demonstrated competence equivalence acceptable. - Experience managing database installations using MySQL and PostgreSQL. - Experience configuring and maintaining Linux firewalls (iptables and shorewall). - Understanding of common backup terminology and experience using open source backup applications like bacula. - Experience managing a growing set of multiple systems in a data center environment. - Ability to confidently configure, deploy, and troubleshoot server applications such as Apache, Lighttpd, Flash Media Server, MySQL server, NFS, Bacula, Bind, ISC DHCP server, and Sendmail and/or Postfix. - Familiarity with open source monitoring toolkits including Nagios, Munin, Cacti, and MRTG. The following skills are highly desired: - Solid understanding of VPNs. OpenVPN and open source IPSEC implementations are a plus. - Open source high availability familiarity is a plus. - Good understanding of opens source audio and video data conversion, streaming, transcoding and encoding technology including FFMPEG and mplayer/mencoder. - Good understanding of Asterisk and open source VOIP technology - Good ability to debug and troubleshoot script and application code written in PHP, Perl, and Bash shell script. - Ability to crank out simple system administration scripts in Perl and Bash shell script. - Familiarity with Red Hat kickstart technology and managed network installation and deployment systems such as Cobbler. - Experience working with SNMP nodes, managed ethernet switches, and onboard embedded server management/monitoring solutions such as IPMI. - Good server hardware troubleshooting skills. - Good understanding of web video conventions and standards including Flash video, MPEG4, and mobile video formats such as 3GP. Familiarity with open source tools for working with this data is definitely a plus. - Highly-effective communication skills, written and oral. - Appreciation of sports is beneficial. Job responsibilities include: - Help maintain server and application uptime. - Participate in an on-call rotation schedule that guarantees response to problems 24/7. - Design and implement new, more efficient and more effective ways to monitor, maintain, and deploy systems. - Work at least part-time at ACR's headquarters in Provo. Remainder of time may be spent working remotely. - Deploy and configure new servers in data center as needed. -- Doran L. Barton Open-source developer, sysadmin, consultant, and all-around geeky dude "Product will be hot after heating." -- Seen on a bread pudding package From bms at flfn.org Wed May 6 17:29:03 2009 From: bms at flfn.org (Brandon Stout) Date: Tue May 12 13:54:32 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0905061530i6e5c4429h25e44e47a9820296@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505152211.GF17476@helios.cocyt.us> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <1241564596.5945.1313987375@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4A00CE5F.4020804@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4A01AE15.2090008@unum5.org> <4A020848.1030002@unum5.org> <6172c17e0905061530i6e5c4429h25e44e47a9820296@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A021D3F.9040307@flfn.org> I wasn't forced to know any office product at BYU in 99. I could use whatever I wanted. Go BYU! Brandon Thomas S Hatch wrote: > SUU has an openoffice option now, a lot of departments have switched > too. They like it, what with the budget cuts everyone in the world > has been getting From benko.kevin at gmail.com Tue May 12 13:54:30 2009 From: benko.kevin at gmail.com (Kevin Benko) Date: Tue May 12 13:54:48 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Speaking of GNU+Linux Advocacy.... Message-ID: <200905121354.42997.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Greetings: Apropos to a recent discussion with respect to GNU+Linux advocacy, I ran across a recent WebLog posting on Helios' blog: http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/05/thin-line-between-victim-and-idiot.html -- Kevin Benko Son, I've seen more dead bodies than you've had TV dinners. -- Carl Kolchak -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090512/2ff9e419/attachment.pgp From bms at mscis.org Tue May 12 14:16:36 2009 From: bms at mscis.org (Brandon Stout) Date: Tue May 12 14:17:07 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: cdrom2 In-Reply-To: References: <1239762928.24842.6.camel@jack-desktop><1239766220.8623.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1239767308.24842.8.camel@jack-desktop> Message-ID: <4A09D924.5010202@mscis.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 JERRY W STEWART wrote: > There are utilites at u3.com that will remove the u3 function thereby, > making your device a standard flash drive. If you decide to restore > it to the U3 function they have a utility for that also. Unfortunately that U3 removal utility only works in Windows. I couldn't even use it in Wine on Linux. I could not get any standard linux tools to work either since they somehow made it so that Linux sees it as two devices - e.g.: I ran dd to overwrite /dev/sdc (which was the u3 device) and it did not overwrite the small partition recognized as a cd rom device, and dd could not overwrite /dev/sr1. I'd like to see a way to remove it in Linux. Brandon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkoJ2SMACgkQx0pgn74qrcJpGQCghw2rCFP9lGQL/0L8cD1iPSmY g6cAniHkrhc9ebHKPGmXchl+WwMR2bNy =3tKK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Tue May 12 14:30:57 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Tue May 12 14:31:00 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Speaking of GNU+Linux Advocacy.... In-Reply-To: <200905121354.42997.benko.kevin@gmail.com> References: <200905121354.42997.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: thanks, this will be useful. On 5/12/09, Kevin Benko wrote: > Greetings: > > Apropos to a recent discussion with respect to GNU+Linux advocacy, I ran > across a recent WebLog posting on Helios' blog: > > http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2009/05/thin-line-between-victim-and-idiot.html > > -- > Kevin Benko > > Son, I've seen more dead bodies than you've had TV dinners. > -- Carl Kolchak > -- the blendmaster From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Tue May 12 14:34:01 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Tue May 12 14:34:02 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <4A021D3F.9040307@flfn.org> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <1241564596.5945.1313987375@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4A00CE5F.4020804@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4A01AE15.2090008@unum5.org> <4A020848.1030002@unum5.org> <6172c17e0905061530i6e5c4429h25e44e47a9820296@mail.gmail.com> <4A021D3F.9040307@flfn.org> Message-ID: was openoffice word-compatible in 99? On 5/6/09, Brandon Stout wrote: > I wasn't forced to know any office product at BYU in 99. I could use > whatever I wanted. Go BYU! > > Brandon > > Thomas S Hatch wrote: >> SUU has an openoffice option now, a lot of departments have switched >> too. They like it, what with the budget cuts everyone in the world >> has been getting > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From kahn at xmission.com Tue May 12 14:39:45 2009 From: kahn at xmission.com (kahn@xmission.com) Date: Tue May 12 14:52:33 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Linux and Video Editing Message-ID: <1607432632-1242160786-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-736395614-@bxe1123.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Just out of curiosity, have you tried the video editing options under osX? ------Original Message------ From: Doran L. \"Fozz\" Barton Sender: sllug-members-bounces@sllug.org To: Salt Lake Linux Users Group Discussions ReplyTo: fozz@iodynamics.com ReplyTo: Salt Lake Linux Users Group Discussions Subject: Re: [sllug-members]: Linux and Video Editing Sent: Apr 25, 2009 1:27 PM On Saturday 25 April 2009 10:41:17 Matthew Hatch wrote: > So over the past few days I've been pulling some video off of my > camcorder in preparation to put on a DVD, but I really don't want to use > Windows to do it. So far I have had good luck with dvgrab (I love that > program), but it doesn't do much more than just dumping the video. Kino > works to an extent, but it crashes all too often. Linux video editing is still a young realm. Kino, when it works, works well, as you mentioned. Some other apps you may want to look at: - avidemux2 - kdenlive - cinelerra As for me, I still keep Windows around for the serious video editing projects. -- fozz@iodynamics.com is Doran L. "Fozz" Barton "Please arrange for pee-pee stop en route." -- Memo sent inside Japanese company in London ______________________________________________________________________ See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah sllug-members@sllug.org http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T From jfriend31 at comcast.net Tue May 12 15:12:41 2009 From: jfriend31 at comcast.net (jack User) Date: Tue May 12 15:12:48 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: cdrom2 In-Reply-To: References: <1239762928.24842.6.camel@jack-desktop> <1239766220.8623.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1239767308.24842.8.camel@jack-desktop> Message-ID: <1242162761.21561.5.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> thanks to you folks i found a site online in Windows that did remove the U3 file without loosing a bite of program files. the site suggested backing up first but there was nothing that important on the drive. all went wonderfully without a hitch. no U3 icon and 5.4 MB more disk storage. can't recall the name of t he site, just did a remove U3 in Google. jack On Wed, 2009-04-15 at 09:46 -0600, JERRY W STEWART wrote: > There are utilites at u3.com that will remove the u3 function thereby, > making your device a standard flash drive. If you decide to restore > it to the U3 function they have a utility for that also. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jack B. Friend > To: Salt Lake Linux Users Group Discussions > Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 9:48 PM > Subject: Re: [sllug-members]: cdrom2 > > > > i agree, thanks, > > jack > > On Tue, 2009-04-14 at 21:30 -0600, Knight Walker wrote: > > On Tue, 2009-04-14 at 20:35 -0600, Jack B. Friend wrote: > > > i have a cdrom2 icon on my Gnome desktop. no cd is in > either drive? the > > > contents are autorun.inf LaunchPad.zip and LaunchU3.exe > which take 5.4 > > > MB zero bytes free. i have no such animal except in a > Windows file > > > possibly. those files sound like something preloaded on a > USB drive. the > > > 4.1 GB USB drive also has LaunchU3.exe but no autorun or > Launchpad.? > > > can someone explain this please? > > > jack > > > > You have a "U3" USB device plugged in. These devices have a > "virtual > > CD-ROM" that contains Windows software on them that gets > auto-installed > > and auto-run when the drive is inserted. This software gives > you extra > > options and abilities in Windows, such as encryption and > some Portable > > Apps, I believe. None of these will do much on your Ubuntu > box. > > > > -KW > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, > information, links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net > channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, > links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net > channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090512/1e870556/attachment.html From bms at mscis.org Tue May 12 15:17:07 2009 From: bms at mscis.org (Brandon Stout) Date: Tue May 12 15:17:32 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <1241564596.5945.1313987375@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4A00CE5F.4020804@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4A01AE15.2090008@unum5.org> <4A020848.1030002@unum5.org> <6172c17e0905061530i6e5c4429h25e44e47a9820296@mail.gmail.com> <4A021D3F.9040307@flfn.org> Message-ID: <4A09E753.1030301@mscis.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Christian Horne wrote: > was openoffice word-compatible in 99? Back in 99 we still turned in rectangular objects called 'hard copies', so it didn't matter what product you used to create it. It didn't need to be Word compatible. Most of the few computer labs at BYU still had Word Perfect and Word installed, though that changed later in '99 so they didn't have Word Perfect anymore. Personally, I never make Word documents, I make pdf documents. Even when job recruiter requests a resume in Word format, I tell them I don't have word and never will, and send them the pdf. Whether or not OpenOffice.org was Word compatible back then, it is now. At least as compatible as one can get with a proprietary standard format. Brandon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkoJ51MACgkQx0pgn74qrcL9SwCfU316wEsJsHsjQlfTMoZRxQVu U7AAniUHpO3GWJ4LskTX5DHH3h6O5YfJ =97vR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kwalker at kobran.org Tue May 12 16:05:50 2009 From: kwalker at kobran.org (Knight Walker) Date: Tue May 12 16:06:52 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090508034808.GE7119@helios.cocyt.us> <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> <4A06DE89.8080104@gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905102232j6f7bc0bdyd253afa3f3f2dcef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1242165950.3515.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-05-11 at 00:10 -0600, Christian Horne wrote: > that's not my point. my point is the open-source games, > not the ability to run closed-source games. star wars: force unleashed > is a game-console game anyway. If his idea of "really amazing software" is a computer game, I'm not sure you're going to be able to do much to convince him. Obviously his priorities are screwed up. :P > the pont is that the real-time simulations (glass breaking > realistically, walk through grass and ir moves, etc) > are so much better than anything else out there that he has > decided that there is no way anyone doing it for free could duplicate them. Games are "pump and dump" software, and thus are much better suited for the closed-source methodology. A (few) year(s) of development, a huge release, a marketing blitz and then no one cares anymore (95% of the time). Free Software and Open-Source are much more a tortoise than a hare. I think we all remember how that one turned out. > actually, if I had [a lot] more time, I could duplicate them fast. > but I don't have 4 free hours a day available anymore... Absolutely. Witness the glory that is (TA) Spring (http://springrts.com/). Far surpasses its original design goals and runs quite well. Only took them what, eight years? The thing is, it will be around for a long time, basically indefinitely, receiving updates and enhancements longer than any paid-game I've ever heard of. Only thing that's even close would be an MMO where they can keep reeling in money year over year. Wouldn't a good Free Software MMO be great? Too bad I don't have that kinda time anymore either. > so, any ideas on what i should say? just the theory of open-source. > how would I say "a million eyes make all problems shallow" to a > non-programmer? "Many hands make light work"? Maybe explain that not everyone wants to wile away the hours watching the grass move but instead wants to understand the math behind it, so said person makes their own simulation as a graduate project and then releases it FOSS when they're done. Maybe show your friend the many id-Tech (Doom/Quake source) ports that show what people can do with a starting point and the determination to make it better. -KW From kwalker at kobran.org Tue May 12 16:20:36 2009 From: kwalker at kobran.org (Knight Walker) Date: Tue May 12 16:21:38 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <4A06DE89.8080104@gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090507202926.GD7119@helios.cocyt.us> <200905072125.15072.fozz@xmission.com> <20090508034808.GE7119@helios.cocyt.us> <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> <4A06DE89.8080104@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1242166836.3515.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2009-05-10 at 08:02 -0600, u235sentinel wrote: > I don't know. Quake 4 is pretty good and I'm enjoying it thoroughly. > And yes it has a native linux client which works great! I also > purchased Neverwinter Nights Diamond and have that working natively in > linux as well. It's an older game sorta like WoW. My kids are jealous > and want me to install it on their computers as well :D Seconded. I've played all the Doom and Quake games, and from circa Quake2 onward, it's all been under Linux. id knows how to get my money. I've also had fun with Unreal Tournament 2003/2004. I also play NWN somewhat, usually with my son. He's dying to get NWN Diamond on his computer, he's still using my original copy of NWN. > There aren't many native linux commercial games out there which is why I > use WINE pretty heavily. There are a great many games that work in > WINE. By work I mean gold or platinum rated. So it's pretty good Maybe I'm just showing my own age here as well, but I still enjoy the old games. I've got about 90% of what Loki ever released and I can still play them even. Descent 1/2/3 are the reasons I bought a joystick, though it doesn't get much use anymore. I'm not much of a fan of WINE though. I haven't had much success with it, especially with stuff that's not gold/platinum rated. And I'd rather support those who support me. -KW From u235sentinel at gmail.com Tue May 12 19:10:10 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Tue May 12 19:10:23 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <1242166836.3515.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090507202926.GD7119@helios.cocyt.us> <200905072125.15072.fozz@xmission.com> <20090508034808.GE7119@helios.cocyt.us> <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> <4A06DE89.8080104@gmail.com> <1242166836.3515.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4A0A1DF2.5000006@gmail.com> Knight Walker wrote: > > Seconded. I've played all the Doom and Quake games, and from circa > Quake2 onward, it's all been under Linux. id knows how to get my money. > I've also had fun with Unreal Tournament 2003/2004. > > I also play NWN somewhat, usually with my son. He's dying to get NWN > Diamond on his computer, he's still using my original copy of NWN. > Diamond works but you have some manual work to do in setting it up under Linux. And no you don't need WINE for a change :-) My kids love Titans Quest but when they saw me playing NWN they went nuts and wanted me to buy a few more copies :-) > > Maybe I'm just showing my own age here as well, but I still enjoy the > old games. I've got about 90% of what Loki ever released and I can still > play them even. Descent 1/2/3 are the reasons I bought a joystick, > though it doesn't get much use anymore. > I heard Descent was open sourced but you need to buy the game to get the data files. I'm looking forward to getting 2 and 3. Those were my favorites when I was stuck on Windblows :-) > I'm not much of a fan of WINE though. I haven't had much success with > it, especially with stuff that's not gold/platinum rated. And I'd > rather support those who support me. > > -KW > > Agreed but I really have an addiction to Counterstrike Source and Team Fortress 2. There are a few other games that work well under WINE (Starcraft 1 for example) so I'm set. And of course if anything comes out with a native client I'm making purchases. Prey for instance. I didin't intend to play the game at all but then they released a native client. Works great too. So I bought a copy for me. Copies for the kids? Nah, they have enough Linux games now including the OSS variety. :-) From u235sentinel at gmail.com Tue May 12 19:11:11 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Tue May 12 19:11:23 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Linux and Video Editing In-Reply-To: <1607432632-1242160786-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-736395614-@bxe1123.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <1607432632-1242160786-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-736395614-@bxe1123.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <4A0A1E2F.4070206@gmail.com> kahn@xmission.com wrote: > Just out of curiosity, have you tried the video editing options under osX? > > I'd love to get final cut pro but the problem is it ONLY runs under OSX. Now if they would only port even a crappy version to Linux they have my money :D From u235sentinel at gmail.com Tue May 12 19:19:54 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Tue May 12 19:20:05 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> <4A06DE89.8080104@gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905102232j6f7bc0bdyd253afa3f3f2dcef@mail.gmail.com> <4A08B6BC.1030001@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A0A203A.8020200@gmail.com> Christian Horne wrote: > I think that putting wine under the lgpl was a really bad idea. > all these people are abusing the reason it was put on the lgpl: > to allow a library version so that windows code could be compiled to > be linux native. > sheesh, crossover, cedega, why not just help with WINE? > seriously... > That's why I was thinking of buying crossover... But from what I'm seeing on their web site, there is a donate to the WINE project option on their main web page. Didn't catch that. thanks for the idea :-) From u235sentinel at gmail.com Tue May 12 19:34:27 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Tue May 12 19:34:38 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Neverwinter Nights: Installing Neverwinter Nights Diamond Edition For Linux Message-ID: <4A0A23A3.4020205@gmail.com> http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=469853&forum=72&sp=0 FYI... in case anyone is interested, here is how to install NWN Diamond edition natively in linux. Works great :D From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Wed May 13 00:08:23 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Wed May 13 00:08:30 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <4A0A203A.8020200@gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> <4A06DE89.8080104@gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905102232j6f7bc0bdyd253afa3f3f2dcef@mail.gmail.com> <4A08B6BC.1030001@gmail.com> <4A0A203A.8020200@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm about to free up a whole bunch of my time each day and I'll be spending it making those kinda sims available in the blender game engine. see, a lot of my time was going to making a game (supertux3d, http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=147720) in blender, and now i decided I want those sims, at least in some places. ondemandpsudeovolumetricsoftbodies, here I come! On 5/12/09, u235sentinel wrote: > Christian Horne wrote: >> I think that putting wine under the lgpl was a really bad idea. >> all these people are abusing the reason it was put on the lgpl: >> to allow a library version so that windows code could be compiled to >> be linux native. >> sheesh, crossover, cedega, why not just help with WINE? >> seriously... >> > That's why I was thinking of buying crossover... > > But from what I'm seeing on their web site, there is a donate to the > WINE project option on their main web page. Didn't catch that. > > thanks for the idea :-) > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Wed May 13 01:03:42 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Wed May 13 01:03:59 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090507202926.GD7119@helios.cocyt.us> <200905072125.15072.fozz@xmission.com> <20090508034808.GE7119@helios.cocyt.us> <38fc83270905081322l46043bb5k6383cebf27492b77@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0905081334k3a8f6fdbp1766fb0e3c72f331@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A0A70CE.7020107@ridgecrestherbals.com> Scott K wrote: > Most everyone has used some broken proprietary software. That was what > inspired Stallman to start the gnu in the first place. Find the things > he hates about computers and different pieces of software, and show > him how open source allows you to fix the problem rather than being > held hostage by the creators. For about 10 years (1985 to 1995 or so) I waited for M$ to fix the time overflow that caused the time to be wrong on any PC that was left running for over 24 hours. It obviously was not a priority for them, though it drove me nuts. I had the DOS equivalent of cron jobs to reboot the machines nightly (after the backups etc) just to set the time straight. Then I discovered Unix (first Minix, then BSD and Linux) had all the things I wanted, and had them nearly 20 years earlier, and because the source code was available, it actually WORKED. I never looked back. I ran a law practice on Linux only from 1994 to 1998. Since then I have done a lot of projects I could NEVER have done with DOS (or Windows). They were easy in Unix/Linux because Linux has tools, not just applications. There were never "applications" for what I needed, but the tools could be combined to get there. But even for "applications", compare OpenOffice to M$ Office-- I prefer OpenOffice, and I know I own my data, not the software company. I still have a boatload of WordPerfect files I need to convert because that proprietary system (once near universal for lawyers) is now a dead end. There is no substitute for owning your own data. Of course, if M$ does everything he needs (many people never need anything outside the box), he'll never "get it". -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Wed May 13 01:25:43 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Wed May 13 01:25:58 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> <4A0856E8.7010304@unum5.org> Message-ID: <4A0A75F7.2090904@ridgecrestherbals.com> Jeff Shipley wrote: > Another thing I've found--although many PDF readers do a pretty good > job, adobe reader accurately renders some PDFs that other readers mess > up. Also, if you have to digitally sign a PDF, adobe reader works > best. I had a supplier that, for no apparent reason, started annotating label PDFs with notes in Acrobat. Only the Adobe reader would display them, and even it would not allow seamless cut and paste from the annotated labels to anything else. So I had to ask them to just send the comments in text emails. PDF's are great for consistent print, but they suck for markup. > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Wed May 13 01:26:18 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Wed May 13 01:26:28 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <2f932a4a0905091426w5ad005e3n4a809caaae465ff9@mail.gmail.com> <90cf3c3d0905091714s421e82f4ofc502b17868e0efc@mail.gmail.com> <4A0856E8.7010304@unum5.org> Message-ID: <4A0A761A.5000701@ridgecrestherbals.com> Jeff Shipley wrote: > Another thing I've found--although many PDF readers do a pretty good > job, adobe reader accurately renders some PDFs that other readers mess > up. Also, if you have to digitally sign a PDF, adobe reader works > best. I had a supplier that, for no apparent reason, started annotating label PDFs with notes in Acrobat. Only the Adobe reader would display them, and even it would not allow seamless cut and paste from the annotated labels to anything else. So I had to ask them to just send the comments in text emails. PDF's are great for consistent print, but they suck for markup. -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From herlo1 at gmail.com Wed May 13 09:29:11 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Wed May 13 09:29:21 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG May 13 Today 11:30am -- Cancelled Message-ID: At about 11pm last night, our presenter sent me a message indicating that there were some unresolvable conflicts and I wanted to get the word out that today's meeting has been cancelled. I'll be up at the Salt Lake Public Library to hang out and chat for an hour about whatever you all want, but there will be no presentation. I apologize for the last minute notice. I'm hoping to have the Basics of Puppet presentation next month. Cheers, Clint From fyyht at punchcutter.ml1.net Wed May 13 11:45:43 2009 From: fyyht at punchcutter.ml1.net (David J Iannucci) Date: Wed May 13 11:45:45 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Re: Appreciate Linux In-Reply-To: <20090512042831.GL7119@helios.cocyt.us> References: <1688873556-1241653401-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1948593383-@bxe1179.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><1428578861-1242076875-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1837900678-@bxe1179.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <20090512042831.GL7119@helios.cocyt.us> Message-ID: <1242236743.30378.1315297813@webmail.messagingengine.com> > Please, please, please, wrap your email after 72 characters. This > gives room for relpy wakkas '>' and still manages to keep it under 80 > characters. Break topics up into paragraphs. Simplify your mail. Think > to yourself "Can I read it?" PLEASE please, let's not start another useless flame war over practices of "obvious" merit that will NEVER, EVER be adopted by "five nines" of the people in the world, because they really just could not POSSIBLY care less. Besides, the fewer formatting, etc issues people need to be concerned about as they write email while driving their cars, the safer we all are on the highways... Dave From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Thu May 14 00:35:08 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Thu May 14 00:35:10 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Re: Appreciate Linux In-Reply-To: <1242236743.30378.1315297813@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1688873556-1241653401-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1948593383-@bxe1179.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <1428578861-1242076875-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1837900678-@bxe1179.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <20090512042831.GL7119@helios.cocyt.us> <1242236743.30378.1315297813@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: do you read your email on a console? it shouldn't be that herd to fix, just pipe it through cat and the email cient won't check for the screen width and word wrap will kick in... unless, of course, it's ncurses-based On 5/13/09, David J Iannucci wrote: >> Please, please, please, wrap your email after 72 characters. This >> gives room for relpy wakkas '>' and still manages to keep it under 80 >> characters. Break topics up into paragraphs. Simplify your mail. Think >> to yourself "Can I read it?" > > PLEASE please, let's not start another useless flame war over practices > of "obvious" merit that will NEVER, EVER be adopted by "five nines" of > the people in the world, because they really just could not POSSIBLY > care less. > > Besides, the fewer formatting, etc issues people need to be concerned > about as they write email while driving their cars, the safer we all are > on the highways... > > Dave > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From zspecialk at gmail.com Thu May 14 10:31:12 2009 From: zspecialk at gmail.com (Scott K) Date: Thu May 14 10:31:16 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Readable List mail, was Re: Appreciate Linux Message-ID: <90cf3c3d0905140931p242e7b29mda9810de5d0dc273@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 12:35 AM, Christian Horne wrote: > do you read your email on a console? it shouldn't be that /s/herd/hard to fix, > just pipe it through cat and the email /s/cient/client won't check for the > screen width and word wrap will kick in... unless, of course, it's > ncurses-based It doesn't matter whether it's a console or not. It's physically/mentally difficult to read long paragraphs in wide columns. Due to contextual problems and the differences between clients, digitally produced paragraphs should contain 2-5 sentences with a blank line between paragraphs. I see no reason to torture myself by reading email or forums that run on forever without organization or breaks; I ignore them, along with content where spelling and grammatical errors obscure the meaning. Partisan insults (i.e. Luser) aren't exactly a sign of an open mind, nor well reasoned arguments either. As stated in the last shouting match: if you can't be bothered to do a bit of prior research and compose a concise, informative and organized thought or query, why should anyone take the time to read it or respond? Scott From benko.kevin at gmail.com Thu May 14 11:36:29 2009 From: benko.kevin at gmail.com (Kevin Benko) Date: Thu May 14 11:36:50 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Readable List mail, was Re: Appreciate Linux In-Reply-To: <90cf3c3d0905140931p242e7b29mda9810de5d0dc273@mail.gmail.com> References: <90cf3c3d0905140931p242e7b29mda9810de5d0dc273@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200905141136.39368.benko.kevin@gmail.com> On Thursday 14 May 2009 10:31:12 Scott K wrote: [snip] > It doesn't matter whether it's a console or not. It's > physically/mentally difficult to read long paragraphs in wide columns. > Due to contextual problems and the differences between clients, > digitally produced paragraphs should contain 2-5 sentences with a > blank line between paragraphs. [snip] I agree with you. Lines that are too long are less readable, as the longer line length tends to make it difficult to "track" the line which you are reading, making it easier for the eyes to jump to the next/previous line while reading the line. This is similar to the LaTeX philosophy in creating readable documents. Some people may look at a standard LaTeX document [[without the fullpage package loaded]] and think that the margins are too wide, ignoring the fact that the line length is optimal for readability. All hail LaTeX, down with word processors! -- Kevin Benko How free are you when stating an opinion in a gymnasium, or hanging a poster, or reading a web site print-out merits a visit from the FBI? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090514/b15e449d/attachment.pgp From csum77 at gmail.com Thu May 14 12:21:42 2009 From: csum77 at gmail.com (csum77@gmail.com) Date: Thu May 14 12:44:33 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Readable List mail, was Re: Appreciate Linux In-Reply-To: <200905141136.39368.benko.kevin@gmail.com> References: <90cf3c3d0905140931p242e7b29mda9810de5d0dc273@mail.gmail.com> <200905141136.39368.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: Pardon my ignorance, but as long as you're not on a console-only system can't you just resize the window of your email client to whatever size you like, thereby customizing readability to your liking? In fact, if a user did not artificially shorten the line length of their message, every user could size their window to whatever width they prefer, and not have to read it narrower than they might like. Just a thought. I'm not trying to add to the fire...just curious as to why this hasn't been mentioned. -Charlie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090514/9498038e/attachment.html From sllug at emailias.com Thu May 14 14:37:05 2009 From: sllug at emailias.com (Justin McClure) Date: Thu May 14 14:38:12 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: May PLUG Meeting; The Open Source Datacenter In-Reply-To: <58926.64.0.192.232.1242072928.squirrel@io.ryansimpkins.com> References: <58926.64.0.192.232.1242072928.squirrel@io.ryansimpkins.com> Message-ID: When I first read this I thought PLUG is a bit far South to drive (Phoenix Linux Users Group). Is PLUG-2 the Provo Linux Users Group? On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 2:15 PM, 'Ryan Simpkins' (sllug@ryansimpkins.com) (Emailias: REPLY-MASKED) wrote: > You guys up north are invited too. PLUG <3 SLLUG > > Date: May 13th, 2009 > Time: 7:30 PM - 9:30 PM > Location: Omniture, Inc. Building H this month. > > FREE FOOD provided by Omniture! > > PLUG: > > I apologize for getting this out so late! Be sure to come. This is going to > be > a great presentation. Dan manages over 15,000 Linux servers. You may not > have > that many, but the lessons learned can help anyone who is using Linux as a > server (from few to many). From Dan: > > "During the last 10 years of system administration I have been involved in > a > number of data center migrations and build-outs. As these projects came and > went I began to see patterns emerge in the set of services and software > required to run a successful operations infrastructure. This presentation > will > describe these patterns, and provide an overview of the Open Source > software > available to implement them." > > About Dan: > Dan Hanks has been involved with Linux System administration since 1998, > when > he worked for EagleNet Online, a small ISP in Provo, which, in a sense, was > the birthplace of PLUG. After EagleNet he worked as a systems and database > administrator for Nothsky/About.com/Primedia/United Online and is currently > a > system administrator for Omniture. He has varied interests, ranging from > computers and technology to astronomy, geology, music, art, and family > history > research. He holds a Bachelor's degree in Computer Science from BYU, and is > the father of 4 adventuresome children. He (occasionally) blogs at > http://brainshed.com, and tweets as @danhanks. > > See you all there! > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090514/8cc931fd/attachment.html From mike.thomas.heath at gmail.com Thu May 14 16:45:58 2009 From: mike.thomas.heath at gmail.com (Michael Heath) Date: Thu May 14 16:46:07 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Readable List mail, was Re: Appreciate Linux In-Reply-To: References: <90cf3c3d0905140931p242e7b29mda9810de5d0dc273@mail.gmail.com> <200905141136.39368.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2e84de770905141545y23e90d4ei6559ff6a29e41b56@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 12:21 PM, csum77@gmail.com wrote: > Pardon my ignorance, but as long as you're not on a console-only system > can't you just resize the window of your email client to whatever size you > like, thereby customizing readability to your liking? > In fact, if a user did not artificially shorten the line length of their > message, every user could size their window to whatever width they prefer, > and not have to read it narrower than they might like. > Just a thought. I'm not trying to add to the fire...just curious as to why > this hasn't been mentioned. I'm using GMail's web interface at the moment, so pardon the irony of my email not following the conventions I'll be advocating herein. :-) The biggest problem I've had with wordwrapped messages is with how clients then go on to format quoted sections of such messages. The convention for marking comments is to start the line with a >. To specifically start a line with a >, you have to forcefully end the previous line. If I do this in a client that does wordwraping, many of them leave the end of line at where it was displayed. The problem is, if I then see this message in another client wtih a smaller width, I get something like: > This is a reply > with an obnoxious number of random line breaks which is just annoying. The second problem is unintentional changes in the formatting as displayed in several different clients. Having a specified fixed width format insures consistent display for several usages. -- Michael Heath From tsharpe at xmission.com Fri May 15 16:38:04 2009 From: tsharpe at xmission.com (Trevor Sharpe) Date: Fri May 15 16:38:11 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: May PLUG Meeting; The Open Source Datacenter In-Reply-To: References: <58926.64.0.192.232.1242072928.squirrel@io.ryansimpkins.com> Message-ID: <4A0DEECC.1020403@xmission.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Justin McClure wrote: > When I first read this I thought PLUG is a bit far South to drive (Phoenix > Linux Users Group). > > Is PLUG-2 the Provo Linux Users Group? Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't the Provo Linux Users Group been around longer than the Phoenix Linux Users Group? BTW I went to the presentation it was very good! - -- Trevor Sharpe E-Mail: tsharpe@xmission.com Jabber: tsharpe@gmail.com - ---------- Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. ---H. L. Mencken -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkoN7scACgkQRDaxm/9432L1WACcDmtsk+0ZIgS7hcBSCiK8bpXq qjMAoJ5sRDWXMgJIL9McJZKYz3fB9CtR =3puq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Sat May 16 22:12:45 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Sat May 16 22:12:47 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: May PLUG Meeting; The Open Source Datacenter In-Reply-To: <4A0DEECC.1020403@xmission.com> References: <58926.64.0.192.232.1242072928.squirrel@io.ryansimpkins.com> <4A0DEECC.1020403@xmission.com> Message-ID: I've certainly known about it a lot longer than the Pheonix LUG. but that's meaningless, because I only found out about both PLUGs (and SLLUG and OALUG and on and on) about a month ago. On 5/15/09, Trevor Sharpe wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Justin McClure wrote: >> When I first read this I thought PLUG is a bit far South to drive (Phoenix >> Linux Users Group). >> >> Is PLUG-2 the Provo Linux Users Group? > > Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't the Provo Linux Users Group been > around longer than the Phoenix Linux Users Group? > > BTW I went to the presentation it was very good! > > > - -- > Trevor Sharpe > E-Mail: tsharpe@xmission.com > Jabber: tsharpe@gmail.com > - ---------- > Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist > the black flag, and begin slitting throats. ---H. L. Mencken > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAkoN7scACgkQRDaxm/9432L1WACcDmtsk+0ZIgS7hcBSCiK8bpXq > qjMAoJ5sRDWXMgJIL9McJZKYz3fB9CtR > =3puq > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Sat May 16 22:17:18 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Sat May 16 22:17:25 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Linux and Video Editing In-Reply-To: <200904251327.35075.fozz@iodynamics.com> References: <49F33D2D.801@azza.com> <200904251327.35075.fozz@iodynamics.com> Message-ID: use blender's video sequence editor! wiki.blender.org to check it out, http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:Manual/Sequencer is about the Video Sequence Editor. www.blender.org to download - DO NOT use the copy (if any) that comes with your distro, only the bleeding edge distro versions have the latest blender release. On 4/25/09, Doran L. "Fozz" Barton wrote: > On Saturday 25 April 2009 10:41:17 Matthew Hatch wrote: >> So over the past few days I've been pulling some video off of my >> camcorder in preparation to put on a DVD, but I really don't want to use >> Windows to do it. So far I have had good luck with dvgrab (I love that >> program), but it doesn't do much more than just dumping the video. Kino >> works to an extent, but it crashes all too often. > > Linux video editing is still a young realm. Kino, when it works, works well, > as you mentioned. Some other apps you may want to look at: > > - avidemux2 > - kdenlive > - cinelerra > > As for me, I still keep Windows around for the serious video editing > projects. > > -- > fozz@iodynamics.com is Doran L. "Fozz" Barton > "Please arrange for pee-pee stop en route." > -- Memo sent inside Japanese company in London > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From kd7nyq at gmail.com Sat May 16 23:13:44 2009 From: kd7nyq at gmail.com (Andrew Jackman) Date: Sat May 16 23:13:53 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: May PLUG Meeting; The Open Source Datacenter In-Reply-To: <4A0DEECC.1020403@xmission.com> References: <58926.64.0.192.232.1242072928.squirrel@io.ryansimpkins.com> <4A0DEECC.1020403@xmission.com> Message-ID: <79c119390905162213l7ffed3c7y691cf536e18a3d91@mail.gmail.com> > BTW I went to the presentation it was very good! Are there any recordings done? I work in a data center for a large, brown shipping company, but we're all Windows based. I've been invited to get involved on the deployment of a new data processing network. :) Jackman. From bms at flfn.org Tue May 12 14:16:13 2009 From: bms at flfn.org (Brandon Stout) Date: Sun May 17 08:17:22 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: cdrom2 In-Reply-To: References: <1239762928.24842.6.camel@jack-desktop><1239766220.8623.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1239767308.24842.8.camel@jack-desktop> Message-ID: <4A09D90D.6050704@flfn.org> JERRY W STEWART wrote: > There are utilites at u3.com that will remove the u3 function thereby, > making your device a standard flash drive. If you decide to restore > it to the U3 function they have a utility for that also. Unfortunately that U3 removal utility only works in Windows. I couldn't even use it in Wine on Linux. I could not get any standard linux tools to work either since they somehow made it so that Linux sees it as two devices - e.g.: I ran dd to overwrite /dev/sdc (which was the u3 device) and it did not overwrite the small partition recognized as a cd rom device, and dd could not overwrite /dev/sr1. I'd like to see a way to remove it in Linux. Brandon From bms at flfn.org Tue May 12 15:16:20 2009 From: bms at flfn.org (Brandon Stout) Date: Sun May 17 08:17:23 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <1241564596.5945.1313987375@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4A00CE5F.4020804@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4A01AE15.2090008@unum5.org> <4A020848.1030002@unum5.org> <6172c17e0905061530i6e5c4429h25e44e47a9820296@mail.gmail.com> <4A021D3F.9040307@flfn.org> Message-ID: <4A09E724.2030403@flfn.org> Christian Horne wrote: > was openoffice word-compatible in 99? > Back in 99 we still turned in rectangular objects called 'hard copies', so it didn't matter what product you used to create it. It didn't need to be Word compatible. Most of the few computer labs at BYU still had Word Perfect and Word installed, though that changed later in '99 so they didn't have Word Perfect anymore. Personally, I never make Word documents, I make pdf documents. Even when job recruiter requests a resume in Word format, I tell them I don't have word and never will, and send them the pdf. Whether or not OpenOffice.org was Word compatible back then, it is now. At least as compatible as one can get with a proprietary standard format. Brandon From byron at theclarkfamily.name Sun May 17 08:40:40 2009 From: byron at theclarkfamily.name (Byron Clark) Date: Sun May 17 08:40:45 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: cdrom2 In-Reply-To: <4A09D90D.6050704@flfn.org> References: <1239767308.24842.8.camel@jack-desktop> <4A09D90D.6050704@flfn.org> Message-ID: <20090517144040.GA3403@thinktank.theclarkfamily.name> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 02:16:13PM -0600, Brandon Stout wrote: > Unfortunately that U3 removal utility only works in Windows. I couldn't > even use it in Wine on Linux. I could not get any standard linux tools > to work either since they somehow made it so that Linux sees it as two > devices - e.g.: I ran dd to overwrite /dev/sdc (which was the u3 device) > and it did not overwrite the small partition recognized as a cd rom > device, and dd could not overwrite /dev/sr1. I'd like to see a way to > remove it in Linux. You may want to try u3-tool: http://u3-tool.sourceforge.net/ -- Byron Clark From herlo1 at gmail.com Sun May 17 08:48:11 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Sun May 17 08:48:20 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: May PLUG Meeting; The Open Source Datacenter In-Reply-To: <79c119390905162213l7ffed3c7y691cf536e18a3d91@mail.gmail.com> References: <58926.64.0.192.232.1242072928.squirrel@io.ryansimpkins.com> <4A0DEECC.1020403@xmission.com> <79c119390905162213l7ffed3c7y691cf536e18a3d91@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 11:13 PM, Andrew Jackman wrote: >> BTW I went to the presentation it was very good! > > Are there any recordings done? ?I work in a data center for a large, > brown shipping company, but we're all Windows based. ?I've been > invited to get involved on the deployment of a new data processing > network. :) > > Jackman. Andrew, I did record the presentation and it will probably be up around 2 weeks from now on http://podcast.utos.org Cheers, Clint From bms at mscis.org Sun May 17 08:57:59 2009 From: bms at mscis.org (Brandon Stout) Date: Sun May 17 08:58:23 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Do You Handle GNU+Linux Advocacy Opportunities? In-Reply-To: <4A09E724.2030403@flfn.org> References: <200905021859.28568.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090505154713.GB8468@gemini.doesntexist.org> <1241564596.5945.1313987375@webmail.messagingengine.com> <4A00CE5F.4020804@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4A01AE15.2090008@unum5.org> <4A020848.1030002@unum5.org> <6172c17e0905061530i6e5c4429h25e44e47a9820296@mail.gmail.com> <4A021D3F.9040307@flfn.org> <4A09E724.2030403@flfn.org> Message-ID: <4A1025F7.6030702@mscis.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Brandon Stout wrote: > Christian Horne wrote: > >> was openoffice word-compatible in 99? >> > > Back in 99 we still turned in rectangular objects called 'hard copies', > so it didn't matter what product you used to create it. It didn't need > to be Word compatible. Most of the few computer labs at BYU still had > Word Perfect and Word installed, though that changed later in '99 so > they didn't have Word Perfect anymore. Personally, I never make Word > documents, I make pdf documents. Even when job recruiter requests a > resume in Word format, I tell them I don't have word and never will, and > send them the pdf. Whether or not OpenOffice.org was Word compatible > back then, it is now. At least as compatible as one can get with a > proprietary standard format. > > Brandon Sorry y'all. I accidentally sent this a long time ago using the wrong email address, and then resent with the right one. This is the one that I sent with the wrong email address. It apparently sat in a queue and whoever moderates didn't notice this is a duplicate. Brandon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkoQJfYACgkQx0pgn74qrcIYfACgqgnMcvyDxD1qTU+QHImXfPdt rEcAoL9TL8MY0SAhVpVZAxlVb2V4DkXc =ZFGI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From benko.kevin at gmail.com Sun May 17 11:06:49 2009 From: benko.kevin at gmail.com (Kevin Benko) Date: Sun May 17 11:07:06 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG May 13 Today 11:30am -- Cancelled In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200905171106.59143.benko.kevin@gmail.com> On Wednesday 13 May 2009 09:29:11 Clint Savage wrote: [snip] > I apologize for the last minute notice. I'm hoping to have the Basics > of Puppet presentation next month. [snip] Greetings, Clint: I thought that I was planning to give a talk on iptables in June. What's up? -- Kevin Benko -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090517/d5f9f3d4/attachment-0001.pgp From beebe at math.utah.edu Mon May 18 17:49:24 2009 From: beebe at math.utah.edu (Nelson H. F. Beebe) Date: Mon May 18 17:49:34 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-members] new article by Richard Stallman Message-ID: Some of you may be interested in reading this new article by GNU and FSF founder Richard Stallman; the article appears electronically in today's issue of the ACM's largest publication, and paper copies should appear in about a month. The DOI leads to two forms of electronic viewing: @String{j-CACM = "Communications of the ACM"} @Article{Stallman:2009:VWO, author = "Richard Stallman", title = "Viewpoint: Why `open source' misses the point of free software", journal = j-CACM, volume = "52", number = "6", pages = "31--33", month = jun, year = "2009", CODEN = "CACMA2", DOI = "http://doi.acm.org/10.1145/1516046.1516058", ISSN = "0001-0782", bibdate = "Mon May 18 14:16:23 MDT 2009", bibsource = "http://www.acm.org/pubs/contents/journals/cacm/", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, } ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - University of Utah FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@acm.org beebe@computer.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From beebe at math.utah.edu Mon May 18 17:51:10 2009 From: beebe at math.utah.edu (Nelson H. F. Beebe) Date: Mon May 18 17:51:19 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-members] new article on One Laptop per Child Message-ID: Several months ago at a SLLUG meeting, we had a presentation about the One Laptop per Child project. A new journal article today carries a longer description of the project, and its current status: @String{j-CACM = "Communications of the ACM"} @Article{Kraemer:2009:OLP, author = "Kenneth L. Kraemer and Jason Dedrick and Prakul Sharma", title = "One laptop per child: vision vs. reality", journal = j-CACM, volume = "52", number = "6", pages = "66--73", month = jun, year = "2009", CODEN = "CACMA2", DOI = "http://doi.acm.org/10.1145/1516046.1516063", ISSN = "0001-0782", bibdate = "Mon May 18 14:16:23 MDT 2009", bibsource = "http://www.acm.org/pubs/contents/journals/cacm/", acknowledgement = ack-nhfb, } The DOI leads to electronic forms of the article; the print copy should appear in about a month. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - University of Utah FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@acm.org beebe@computer.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mike.thomas.heath at gmail.com Mon May 18 23:20:05 2009 From: mike.thomas.heath at gmail.com (Michael Heath) Date: Mon May 18 23:20:35 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-members] new article by Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2e84de770905182220k76693250w8b91a1f700c3b9e1@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote: > Some of you may be interested in reading this new article > by GNU and FSF founder Richard Stallman; If anyone is interested, the exact same article is available without an ACM subscription at http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html Michael Heath From nathamberlane at gmail.com Tue May 19 08:00:56 2009 From: nathamberlane at gmail.com (Nathan Lane) Date: Tue May 19 08:01:04 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-members] new article by Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <2e84de770905182220k76693250w8b91a1f700c3b9e1@mail.gmail.com> References: <2e84de770905182220k76693250w8b91a1f700c3b9e1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9afbd5b90905190700r3dcf7691t4585c91aa9203316@mail.gmail.com> Thank you, I can't remember my ACM login credentials -- I just never use them. On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Michael Heath wrote: > On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Nelson H. F. Beebe > wrote: > > Some of you may be interested in reading this new article > > by GNU and FSF founder Richard Stallman; > > If anyone is interested, the exact same article is available without > an ACM subscription at > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html > > Michael Heath > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- Nathan Lane Home, http://www.nathandelane.com Blog, http://nathandelane.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090519/7fc1dbe3/attachment.htm From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Tue May 19 17:05:04 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Tue May 19 17:05:12 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-members] new article by Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <9afbd5b90905190700r3dcf7691t4585c91aa9203316@mail.gmail.com> References: <2e84de770905182220k76693250w8b91a1f700c3b9e1@mail.gmail.com> <9afbd5b90905190700r3dcf7691t4585c91aa9203316@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: wow... that's a preety good article, and i agree with it mostly, but if you write software, then you DO have the right to restrict it within reasonable bounds. as in, if a company buys a copy, then they can use it as much as they want, see the code, change the code, but can only give they're changed to you, the writer. they can do anything they want to it... but share your intellectual property. yes, I beleive in intellectual property, within sane bounds. On 5/19/09, Nathan Lane wrote: > Thank you, I can't remember my ACM login credentials -- I just never use > them. > > On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Michael Heath > wrote: > >> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Nelson H. F. Beebe >> wrote: >> > Some of you may be interested in reading this new article >> > by GNU and FSF founder Richard Stallman; >> >> If anyone is interested, the exact same article is available without >> an ACM subscription at >> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html >> >> Michael Heath >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> > > > > -- > Nathan Lane > Home, http://www.nathandelane.com > Blog, http://nathandelane.blogspot.com > -- the blendmaster From u235sentinel at gmail.com Tue May 19 17:18:20 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Tue May 19 17:18:31 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-members] new article by Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: References: <2e84de770905182220k76693250w8b91a1f700c3b9e1@mail.gmail.com> <9afbd5b90905190700r3dcf7691t4585c91aa9203316@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A133E3C.9000502@gmail.com> Christian Horne wrote: > wow... that's a preety good article, and i agree with it mostly, but > if you write software, > then you DO have the right to restrict it within reasonable bounds. as > in, if a company buys a copy, then they can use it as much as they > want, see the code, change the code, but can only give they're changed > to you, the writer. they can do anything they want to it... > but share your intellectual property. > > yes, I beleive in intellectual property, within sane bounds. > Sane bounds are great. They own it all and give them all your money. there ya go.. ;-) Oh and complain about IP infringement but don't tell anyone what they are. That works right ;-) From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Tue May 19 18:05:14 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Tue May 19 18:05:16 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-members] new article by Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <4A133E3C.9000502@gmail.com> References: <2e84de770905182220k76693250w8b91a1f700c3b9e1@mail.gmail.com> <9afbd5b90905190700r3dcf7691t4585c91aa9203316@mail.gmail.com> <4A133E3C.9000502@gmail.com> Message-ID: are you being sarcastic? I don't understand what you said. i said what I think IP should be like. i said what bounds i think there should be. "they own it all and give them all you money"? what? On 5/19/09, u235sentinel wrote: > Christian Horne wrote: >> wow... that's a preety good article, and i agree with it mostly, but >> if you write software, >> then you DO have the right to restrict it within reasonable bounds. as >> in, if a company buys a copy, then they can use it as much as they >> want, see the code, change the code, but can only give they're changed >> to you, the writer. they can do anything they want to it... >> but share your intellectual property. >> >> yes, I beleive in intellectual property, within sane bounds. >> > Sane bounds are great. They own it all and give them all your money. > > there ya go.. ;-) > > Oh and complain about IP infringement but don't tell anyone what they > are. That works right ;-) > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From u235sentinel at gmail.com Tue May 19 18:13:24 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Tue May 19 18:13:37 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-members] new article by Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: References: <2e84de770905182220k76693250w8b91a1f700c3b9e1@mail.gmail.com> <9afbd5b90905190700r3dcf7691t4585c91aa9203316@mail.gmail.com> <4A133E3C.9000502@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A134B24.3050007@gmail.com> Christian Horne wrote: > are you being sarcastic? I don't understand what you said. > i said what I think IP should be like. i said what bounds i think > there should be. > "they own it all and give them all you money"? what? > > > Sarcasm? Me? Absolutely :-) Heard of SCO... Reminded me of a userfriendly.org sunday cartoon which said something along the lines that they owned linux and to give them all our money From u235sentinel at gmail.com Tue May 19 18:19:01 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Tue May 19 18:19:12 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Linux and Video Editing In-Reply-To: References: <49F33D2D.801@azza.com> <200904251327.35075.fozz@iodynamics.com> Message-ID: <4A134C75.6050009@gmail.com> Christian Horne wrote: > use blender's video sequence editor! > wiki.blender.org to check it out, > http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:Manual/Sequencer is about the > Video Sequence Editor. > www.blender.org to download - DO NOT use the copy (if any) that comes > with your distro, only the bleeding edge distro versions have the > latest blender release. > > So don't use the distro's version. Might explain why I keep hearing about this video editor but never saw it with the Ubuntu package :-) I'll check it out. Thanks for the tip! From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Tue May 19 19:54:05 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Tue May 19 19:54:14 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-members] new article by Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <4A134B24.3050007@gmail.com> References: <2e84de770905182220k76693250w8b91a1f700c3b9e1@mail.gmail.com> <9afbd5b90905190700r3dcf7691t4585c91aa9203316@mail.gmail.com> <4A133E3C.9000502@gmail.com> <4A134B24.3050007@gmail.com> Message-ID: now that's what I hate. someone (linus) gives out his software for free (freedom and free lunch) and then someone says "since you wrote software without giving it to a company, we claim it as ours." I think behavior like that is what got RMS started... but now he is just the same thing on the other side of the spectrum: "you wrote software, you can't say what I do with it." idiot... On 5/20/09, u235sentinel wrote: > Christian Horne wrote: >> are you being sarcastic? I don't understand what you said. >> i said what I think IP should be like. i said what bounds i think >> there should be. >> "they own it all and give them all you money"? what? >> >> >> > Sarcasm? Me? > > Absolutely :-) > > Heard of SCO... Reminded me of a userfriendly.org sunday cartoon which > said something along the lines that they owned linux and to give them > all our money > > > > -- the blendmaster From tristan at witenko.com Tue May 19 21:19:30 2009 From: tristan at witenko.com (Tristan Rhodes) Date: Tue May 19 21:19:42 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Linux and Video Editing In-Reply-To: <49F33D2D.801@azza.com> References: <49F33D2D.801@azza.com> Message-ID: <4A1376C2.8070406@witenko.com> Matthew, I only have Linux machines (both at home and work) so I have been looking for a good video editing solution as well. So far, the easiest system that we have found is actually an online service that we saw listed in a recent Linux Journal. http://jaycut.com/ I hope you find this useful. Tristan Rhodes Matthew Hatch wrote: > So over the past few days I've been pulling some video off of my > camcorder in preparation to put on a DVD, but I really don't want to use > Windows to do it. So far I have had good luck with dvgrab (I love that > program), but it doesn't do much more than just dumping the video. Kino > works to an extent, but it crashes all too often. > > My question is: Which video editing solutions do you all use when it > comes to putting DV video on a DVD (or heck -- even putting it up on > youtube)? I've used mencoder to shrink it down for youtube, which isn't > a problem, but it's the editing process (breaking it up into scenes and > what not) that is the problem. > > Thanks for your input! > > -- > Matthew Hatch > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > From richard at esplins.org Tue May 19 22:58:43 2009 From: richard at esplins.org (Richard Esplin) Date: Tue May 19 23:25:29 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-members] new article by Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: References: <4A134B24.3050007@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200905192258.43313.richard-lists@esplins.org> The key point is that once you have given me the software, you have relinquished all natural rights to tell me what to do with it. Instead, if you want to control what I do with it, you have to rely on an artificial legal system to create and enforce your idea of "rights". In some cases society might benefit from creating a system of rights to govern intangible property. But I think you miss the point if you are calling someone an idiot for questioning your ability to control the private affairs of those who receive your software. Especially in a world where every use of your software consists of multiple acts of copying, and your original copy is in no way diminished by these repeated instances. I guess it shouldn't surprise me that people want to structure the legal system in whatever way will give them the most power and money. I still find it sad how quickly people will surrender their own rights just to have a theoretical ability to control others. If present trends continue, we will suffer more from these encroachments on our freedom as our society gets more technological. Instead of just dismissing someone like Stallman (or Lessig, or many others), it is worth thinking about how their motivation: their philosophy is meant to protect you rather than to exploit you. A very different motivation than most businesses and politicians, indeed. I am glad that someone has the courage to be on the other side of the exploitation spectrum. Richard On Tuesday 19 May 2009 19:54:05 Christian Horne wrote: > now that's what I hate. someone (linus) gives out his software for > free (freedom and free lunch) > and then someone says "since you wrote software without giving it to a > company, we claim it as ours." > I think behavior like that is what got RMS started... but now he is > just the same thing on the other side of the spectrum: > "you wrote software, you can't say what I do with it." > idiot... From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Wed May 20 00:35:37 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Wed May 20 00:35:46 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-members] new article by Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <200905192258.43313.richard-lists@esplins.org> References: <4A134B24.3050007@gmail.com> <200905192258.43313.richard-lists@esplins.org> Message-ID: no it's fine to make as many copies as you want of software you bought and put them on your own computers. it's not okay to share them with people without the author's conent though. On 5/20/09, Richard Esplin wrote: > The key point is that once you have given me the software, you have > relinquished all natural rights to tell me what to do with it. Instead, if > you want to control what I do with it, you have to rely on an artificial > legal system to create and enforce your idea of "rights". > > In some cases society might benefit from creating a system of rights to > govern > intangible property. But I think you miss the point if you are calling > someone an idiot for questioning your ability to control the private affairs > of those who receive your software. Especially in a world where every use of > your software consists of multiple acts of copying, and your original copy > is > in no way diminished by these repeated instances. > > I guess it shouldn't surprise me that people want to structure the legal > system in whatever way will give them the most power and money. I still find > it sad how quickly people will surrender their own rights just to have a > theoretical ability to control others. If present trends continue, we will > suffer more from these encroachments on our freedom as our society gets more > technological. > > Instead of just dismissing someone like Stallman (or Lessig, or many > others), > it is worth thinking about how their motivation: their philosophy is meant > to > protect you rather than to exploit you. A very different motivation than > most > businesses and politicians, indeed. I am glad that someone has the courage > to > be on the other side of the exploitation spectrum. > > Richard > > > On Tuesday 19 May 2009 19:54:05 Christian Horne > wrote: >> now that's what I hate. someone (linus) gives out his software for >> free (freedom and free lunch) >> and then someone says "since you wrote software without giving it to a >> company, we claim it as ours." >> I think behavior like that is what got RMS started... but now he is >> just the same thing on the other side of the spectrum: >> "you wrote software, you can't say what I do with it." >> idiot... > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Wed May 20 01:52:02 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Wed May 20 01:52:20 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-members] new article by Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <200905192258.43313.richard-lists@esplins.org> References: <4A134B24.3050007@gmail.com> <200905192258.43313.richard-lists@esplins.org> Message-ID: <4A13B6A2.5030803@ridgecrestherbals.com> Richard Esplin wrote: > The key point is that once you have given me the software, you have > relinquished all natural rights to tell me what to do with it. Instead, if > you want to control what I do with it, you have to rely on an artificial > legal system to create and enforce your idea of "rights". This may be true if there is no agreement of the parties when the software is "given" (we call that "public domain" and it goes well beyond Stallman's definition of "free". If there is an agreement, then every civilized society sees the need to enforce the agreement. You can't let cheaters prosper, and expect to see economic growth as a result. But cheating includes predatory and monopolistic practices as well as software piracy, and the one does not justify the other. I am not ready to conclude with RMS that ALL proprietary software is inherently bad-- though I usually favor free software for my own use if I can-- and that is almost all of the time. Roedy Greene once (about 1990?) wrote a version of Forth (Abundance) that was free for any except military use, to which he was morally opposed. I guess RMS would say that was non-free too, but I don't see it that way. All copy-left involves a level of restriction, even if it is just "don't strip the credits and claim it as your own", right? > In some cases society might benefit from creating a system of rights to govern > intangible property. But I think you miss the point if you are calling > someone an idiot for questioning your ability to control the private affairs > of those who receive your software. Especially in a world where every use of > your software consists of multiple acts of copying, and your original copy is > in no way diminished by these repeated instances. It does, and so we have IP law. Assuming that all IP law is wrong just because we don't like the conditions it imposes on us is no less ridiculous than assuming that every shrink-wrap agreement is a real agreement of the parties and should therefore be completely enforceable. There is, and always will be, a balancing of competing interests, and stable, predictable rules are always a plus in encouraging any economic activity. > I guess it shouldn't surprise me that people want to structure the legal > system in whatever way will give them the most power and money. I still find > it sad how quickly people will surrender their own rights just to have a > theoretical ability to control others. If present trends continue, we will > suffer more from these encroachments on our freedom as our society gets more > technological. Agreed. But there are many cases in which parties may bargain freely at arms length for certain rights, and we can't assume they are all idiots just because they make a short-term monetary bargain. I think there is clearly room for both camps, and both of the extremes are usually wrong. > Instead of just dismissing someone like Stallman (or Lessig, or many others), > it is worth thinking about how their motivation: their philosophy is meant to > protect you rather than to exploit you. A very different motivation than most > businesses and politicians, indeed. I am glad that someone has the courage to > be on the other side of the exploitation spectrum. True, but the golden mean is rarely found in either extreme. It's odd that human beings often can't reach agreement without starting from opposite poles (or even then). -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Wed May 20 02:01:51 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Wed May 20 02:02:00 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-members] new article by Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: References: <4A134B24.3050007@gmail.com> <200905192258.43313.richard-lists@esplins.org> Message-ID: <4A13B8EF.4020803@ridgecrestherbals.com> Christian Horne wrote: > no it's fine to make as many copies as you want of software you bought > and put them on your own computers. it's not okay to share them with > people without the author's conent though. Now, maybe you write a program that has value for each machine-- maybe a new OS, like for a home theater system, or for each user, like a web-based publishing system. Maybe you want to charge by the machine, seat, user, simultaneous user, subscriber, watt-hour of power controlled, airplane flight path managed, or new moon observed. Are you saying you can't do that, you can only sell one copy per owner? One business model fits all, and if they don't like those terms, they can just ignore the license? What if the owner is a university or government with thousands of seats and/or users? If you don't like the license, don't buy it. I don't buy M$ stuff for that reason, if I have any choice. If I have to buy it, I comply with the license. I buy a lot of photography the same way. If I could only use public-domain photos in advertisements, they'd be very boring. -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From u235sentinel at gmail.com Wed May 20 07:05:37 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Wed May 20 07:05:49 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-members] new article by Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: References: <4A134B24.3050007@gmail.com> <200905192258.43313.richard-lists@esplins.org> Message-ID: <4A140021.1000004@gmail.com> Christian Horne wrote: > no it's fine to make as many copies as you want of software you bought > and put them on your own computers. it's not okay to share them with > people without the author's conent though. > > > If you're talking about something like OpenSource or Public Domain software then that's probably ok. BUT if you are talking about stuff like Micro$oft or Adobe then read the EULA. I'm pretty sure they will say only one computer period. Otherwise you are in violation and considered a pirate. Arrrrrr! :-) From sllug at emailias.com Wed May 20 07:21:01 2009 From: sllug at emailias.com (Justin McClure) Date: Wed May 20 07:23:22 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: May PLUG Meeting; The Open Source Datacenter In-Reply-To: <4A0DEECC.1020403@xmission.com> References: <58926.64.0.192.232.1242072928.squirrel@io.ryansimpkins.com> <4A0DEECC.1020403@xmission.com> Message-ID: I have no idea. I just moved to the Salt Lake area last summer. PLUG in Phoenix has been around since 1999. How long has the Provo Group been around? On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Trevor Sharpe (tsharpe@xmission.com) (Emailias: REPLY-MASKED) wrote: > Original Sender: > Given To: Salt Lake Linux Users Group > Emailias: sllug@emailias.com > Target: , > Folder: Normal > Preset: Normal > Date Created: 2008-07-24 16:06:02 > Notes: (not yet implemented) > <--------------------end emailias header--------------------> > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Justin McClure wrote: > > When I first read this I thought PLUG is a bit far South to drive > (Phoenix > > Linux Users Group). > > > > Is PLUG-2 the Provo Linux Users Group? > > Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't the Provo Linux Users Group been > around longer than the Phoenix Linux Users Group? > > BTW I went to the presentation it was very good! > > > - -- > Trevor Sharpe > E-Mail: tsharpe@xmission.com > Jabber: tsharpe@gmail.com > - ---------- > Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist > the black flag, and begin slitting throats. ---H. L. Mencken > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAkoN7scACgkQRDaxm/9432L1WACcDmtsk+0ZIgS7hcBSCiK8bpXq > qjMAoJ5sRDWXMgJIL9McJZKYz3fB9CtR > =3puq > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090520/1646d700/attachment.html From jfree at sovereign.org Tue May 19 13:34:35 2009 From: jfree at sovereign.org (Jim Freeman) Date: Wed May 20 07:52:46 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-officers]: May 20th SLLUG - PHP for beginners ... Message-ID: <20090519193435.GC20975@sovereign.org> This month's Salt Lake Linux Users Group meeting will cover PHP essentials (PHP for Dummies?) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PHP http://www.php.net/ A small(-ish), self-contained but *very* useful script will be dissected and explained as a real-world example. No give-aways (custodian of same will be out of town ...). Expect a short meeting. Time/Date: ---------- Wednesday, May 20, 2009 7:10pm p.m. Place: ---------- Room 101 or 103 in Lower Warnock Engineering Building Directions/Parking: Directions - [http://www.map.utah.edu/index.jsp?find=62] Parking can be found just East of the WEB building and there is a big lot just North of the Merrill Engineering building (MEB). Parking is free after 6:00 (Based on the signs posted. Always check in case this changes.) Special thanks go to: - U of U for providing the meeting room. - Various Volunteers _______________________________________________ sllug-officers mailing list sllug-officers@sllug.org http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-officers From byron at theclarkfamily.name Wed May 20 08:21:14 2009 From: byron at theclarkfamily.name (Byron Clark) Date: Wed May 20 08:21:30 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: May PLUG Meeting; The Open Source Datacenter In-Reply-To: References: <58926.64.0.192.232.1242072928.squirrel@io.ryansimpkins.com> <4A0DEECC.1020403@xmission.com> Message-ID: <20090520142114.GB4469@thinktank.theclarkfamily.name> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 07:21:01AM -0600, Justin McClure wrote: > I have no idea. I just moved to the Salt Lake area last summer. PLUG in > Phoenix has been around since 1999. How long has the Provo Group been > around? I remember attending PLUG (Provo) meetings in 1997 and the group was pretty well established by then. -- Byron Clark From sllug at emailias.com Wed May 20 08:22:51 2009 From: sllug at emailias.com (Justin McClure) Date: Wed May 20 08:23:03 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: May PLUG Meeting; The Open Source Datacenter In-Reply-To: References: <58926.64.0.192.232.1242072928.squirrel@io.ryansimpkins.com> <4A0DEECC.1020403@xmission.com> Message-ID: I think I am wrong about that date for Phoenix. I found the website dated 1998 in archive.org. On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 7:21 AM, 'Justin McClure'(sllug@emailias.com) (Emailias: REPLY-MASKED) wrote: > *Original Sender:* > *Given To:* Salt Lake Linux Users Group > *Emailias:* sllug@emailias.com > *Target:* , > *Folder:* Normal > *Preset:* Normal > *Date Created:* 2008-07-24 16:06:02 > *Notes:* (not yet implemented) > ------------------------------ > I have no idea. I just moved to the Salt Lake area last summer. PLUG in > Phoenix has been around since 1999. How long has the Provo Group been > around? > > On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 4:38 PM, Trevor Sharpe (tsharpe@xmission.com) > (Emailias: REPLY-MASKED) sllug.org@emailias.com> wrote: > >> Original Sender: >> Given To: Salt Lake Linux Users Group >> Emailias: sllug@emailias.com >> Target: , >> Folder: Normal >> Preset: Normal >> Date Created: 2008-07-24 16:06:02 >> Notes: (not yet implemented) >> <--------------------end emailias header--------------------> >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Justin McClure wrote: >> > When I first read this I thought PLUG is a bit far South to drive >> (Phoenix >> > Linux Users Group). >> > >> > Is PLUG-2 the Provo Linux Users Group? >> >> Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't the Provo Linux Users Group been >> around longer than the Phoenix Linux Users Group? >> >> BTW I went to the presentation it was very good! >> >> >> - -- >> Trevor Sharpe >> E-Mail: tsharpe@xmission.com >> Jabber: tsharpe@gmail.com >> - ---------- >> Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist >> the black flag, and begin slitting throats. ---H. L. Mencken >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org >> >> iEYEARECAAYFAkoN7scACgkQRDaxm/9432L1WACcDmtsk+0ZIgS7hcBSCiK8bpXq >> qjMAoJ5sRDWXMgJIL9McJZKYz3fB9CtR >> =3puq >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> > > > Original Sender: > Given To: Salt Lake Linux Users Group > Emailias: sllug@emailias.com > Target: , > Folder: Normal > Preset: Normal > Date Created: 2008-07-24 16:06:02 > Notes: (not yet implemented) > <--------------------end emailias header--------------------> > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090520/d1f618b0/attachment.htm From benko.kevin at gmail.com Wed May 20 09:35:33 2009 From: benko.kevin at gmail.com (Kevin Benko) Date: Wed May 20 09:35:53 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: GNU + Linux Message-ID: <200905200935.42943.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Greetings: I recently read something in the ongoing thread concerning the GPL.... Way back in the depth of time, RMS started GNU and the Free software movement. Now, it is my understanding that the GNU applications were *almost* a complete operating system, except for that pesky HURD kernel, which is still not up and running, but it is available through the Debian repositories. Then, independently, Linus Torvalds created a UNIX-like kernel as a graduate student. What we call "Linux" should more properly be called GNU+Linux, or, ${DISTRIBUTION}+GNU+Linux. Stallman's GNU is an inherent part of "Linux", and without the GNU tools, Linux would be like a brain in a bottle. Question: Would anyone care about, or even be aware of, Torvald's Linux kernel if it hadn't been for Stallman and GNU? Please let us not forget that "Linux" is but one part of GNU+Linux, and even the GCC compiler we use to compile the Linux kernel is GNU. Yes, RMS is a bit irritating to some people [[I think he would turn Ghandi into a chainsmoker]]. He is one of the few people that "walks the walk", and that makes me, and other hypocrites, a bit uncomfortable. -- Kevin Benko CH3 Coffee: Because Sleep is a poor | substitute for caffeine N / \ N----C C==O || || | || || | CH C N--CH3 \ / \ / N C | || CH3 O -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090520/77c88a1f/attachment.pgp From marc at sllug.org Wed May 20 09:26:25 2009 From: marc at sllug.org (Marc Christensen) Date: Wed May 20 09:47:01 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: SLLUG hits 15 years of Linux goodness! Congratulations!!! Message-ID: <4A142121.8060902@sllug.org> The Salt Lake Linux Users Group started its humble beginnings sometime in May of 1994. A few weeks later we officially incorporated as a non-profit on July 28, 1994. That makes this month our 15th year soft-anniversary with the official one coming up in July. It also makes SLLUG one of the oldest and most established Linux user groups in the world! Congratulations to everyone one for making SLLUG a success and contributing to such a great Local Linux community. We have members of our group that have greatly influenced and contributed heavily to Linux over the years. We make up a diverse group of individuals of varied backgrounds and depth of knowledge. We rock! :) Thanks to everyone who has helped make the Salt Lake Linux Users Group such a success over the years and here's to many many more!!!!! -- Marc Christensen http://www.sllug.org From unum at unum5.org Wed May 20 09:54:18 2009 From: unum at unum5.org (Kyle Waters) Date: Wed May 20 09:54:39 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: GNU + Linux In-Reply-To: <200905200935.42943.benko.kevin@gmail.com> References: <200905200935.42943.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A1427AA.20604@unum5.org> Kevin Benko wrote: > What we call "Linux" should more properly be called GNU+Linux, or, > ${DISTRIBUTION}+GNU+Linux. Stallman's GNU is an inherent part of "Linux", > and without the GNU tools, Linux would be like a brain in a bottle. > Stallman actually asks that you call it GNU/Linux in order to give recognition to the Free Software movement. There are many other contributors, but if you want to give recognition to the Free Software movement and not JUST the Open Source Movement you should say GNU. > Question: Would anyone care about, or even be aware of, Torvald's Linux > kernel if it hadn't been for Stallman and GNU? Please let us not forget > that "Linux" is but one part of GNU+Linux, and even the GCC compiler we > use to compile the Linux kernel is GNU. > > GCC was used originally to create the kernel and GCC, Bash, and Vim(not a gnu program) were the first programs to run on the Linux kernel. I think it's very safe to say that the Linux kernel never would have existed with out Stallman's efforts. An important thing to always remember(even Lessig has taken this stance recently), the extremes define the center. Kyle From shaun.kruger at gmail.com Wed May 20 10:12:31 2009 From: shaun.kruger at gmail.com (Shaun Kruger) Date: Wed May 20 10:12:39 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-members] new article by Richard Stallman In-Reply-To: <200905192258.43313.richard-lists@esplins.org> References: <4A134B24.3050007@gmail.com> <200905192258.43313.richard-lists@esplins.org> Message-ID: On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Richard Esplin wrote: > The key point is that once you have given me the software, you have > relinquished all natural rights to tell me what to do with it. Instead, if > you want to control what I do with it, you have to rely on an artificial > legal system to create and enforce your idea of "rights". Any time I involve myself in a discussion of copyright law I always have to think back to Article I Section 8 of the constitution where congress is authorized to create laws for copyright and patents. "To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries" I believe that many of these arguments about copyright law come about because many recognize that it has been corrupted from its intended form. However, many over correct. Instead of looking for fair and limited copyright laws, they wish to destroy the whole notion of copyright. Throwing out copyright would still have little impact on the state of things as closed source companies would then have even less incentive to release their source to customers. Copyright law is what allows a vendor to provide their customer with source code in such a way that they can seek damages if the customer gives that code away to another potential customer. I do not consider copyright to be an artificial legal system that enforces the idea of rights. It's a real system that makes it economically viable to produce works without fear of them being easily stolen. It is then the author's choice to make money on it as he will. Congress has at this point overstepped its proper bounds as regards to copyright law, but they're doing that with everything so I just think of it as the general corruption of law that we suffer from in this country. > Instead of just dismissing someone like Stallman (or Lessig, or many others), > it is worth thinking about how their motivation: their philosophy is meant to > protect you rather than to exploit you. A very different motivation than most > businesses and politicians, indeed. I am glad that someone has the courage to > be on the other side of the exploitation spectrum. This paragraph brings up the very meat of the problem. There are ethics questions to be considered. I'm not going to claim that I am qualified to discuss them. Any system can be used to exploit people. However, it is very important to note that both sides rely on the exact same copyright law. We can't claim that copyright law is inherently wrong and then go sue Cisco because they patched a kernel and integrated it into a product without releasing source (Thus infringing on copyright under the GPL). I hope I didn't ramble too long/off topic. I just feel that copyright gets twisted into something that it isn't when arguments about open/closed source come up. Shaun From aaron.toponce at gmail.com Wed May 20 10:21:48 2009 From: aaron.toponce at gmail.com (Aaron Toponce) Date: Wed May 20 10:22:01 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: GNU + Linux In-Reply-To: <200905200935.42943.benko.kevin@gmail.com> References: <200905200935.42943.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090520162148.GB25630@helios.cocyt.us> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 09:35:33AM -0600, Kevin Benko wrote: > Yes, RMS is a bit irritating to some people [[I think he would turn Ghandi > into a chainsmoker]]. He is one of the few people that "walks the walk", > and that makes me, and other hypocrites, a bit uncomfortable. Well, he might walk the walk of politics, but when was the last time the FSF or Stallman for that matter, backed up their walk with code? Maybe a little here and there, but it seems developers that are NOT part of GNU are developing the most recent applications for GNU/Linux, and GNU decides if they want to accept it as a GNU project. Am I wrong in this assessment? From my observations, the FSF has turned GNU into a more of a philosohpy and less of a product. -- . O . O . O . . O O . . . O . . . O . O O O . O . O O . . O O O O . O . . O O O O . O O O -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 490 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090520/efb0e866/attachment.pgp From mark.k.spute at L-3com.com Wed May 20 10:39:43 2009 From: mark.k.spute at L-3com.com (mark.k.spute@L-3com.com) Date: Wed May 20 10:39:54 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: FSF vs. OSI Message-ID: <2B2CEF0E4EE10B449E5D9BB95E6DA0E801124BF4@MAIL2.csw.l-3com.com> Can someone please, succinctly, explain the difference between these two philosophies. I read Stallman's article and it seems like "You say tomato, I say tomato," to me. As far as I have been able to determine from reading the definition on the two websites, the major difference seems to be that under FSF if I take a piece of software and change it, I don't have to note the change and it then becomes my software, whereas under OSI I have to give credit to the original programmer. Or am I missing the entire point? Mark From unum at unum5.org Wed May 20 10:55:20 2009 From: unum at unum5.org (Kyle Waters) Date: Wed May 20 10:55:40 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: GNU + Linux In-Reply-To: <20090520162148.GB25630@helios.cocyt.us> References: <200905200935.42943.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <20090520162148.GB25630@helios.cocyt.us> Message-ID: <4A1435F8.3090408@unum5.org> Aaron Toponce wrote: > >> and that makes me, and other hypocrites, a bit uncomfortable. >> > > Well, he might walk the walk of politics, but when was the last time the > FSF or Stallman for that matter, backed up their walk with code? Maybe a > little here and there, but it seems developers that are NOT part of GNU > are developing the most recent applications for GNU/Linux, and GNU decides > if they want to accept it as a GNU project. Am I wrong in this assessment? > From my observations, the FSF has turned GNU into a more of a philosohpy > and less of a product. I believe we've had this discussion before and I'm still not sure what you are talking about. Are you specifically referring to the HURD? Or do you mean they should write some software in general? Because they are constantly updating the many software programs they have produced: http://directory.fsf.org/GNU/ How significant are their contributions compared to others? I don't know, but I'm not going to complain because I haven't given them any money. They do put out code. They influence code. They manage code. They influence other organizations(GNOME, XORG). They still do a lot. Kyle From unum at unum5.org Wed May 20 10:58:45 2009 From: unum at unum5.org (Kyle Waters) Date: Wed May 20 10:58:54 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: FSF vs. OSI In-Reply-To: <2B2CEF0E4EE10B449E5D9BB95E6DA0E801124BF4@MAIL2.csw.l-3com.com> References: <2B2CEF0E4EE10B449E5D9BB95E6DA0E801124BF4@MAIL2.csw.l-3com.com> Message-ID: <4A1436C5.1060109@unum5.org> mark.k.spute@L-3com.com wrote: > Or am I missing the entire point? > > FSF: Sharing is a moral principal. OSI: Sharing creates better code. FSF recognizes the BSD license as free. They do not recognize the apple license as free(it requires you submit all changes back to apple). OSI recognizes the apple license as open source. They also recognize other licenses that give the primary copyright holder special rights. FSF does not claim technical superiority from their licensing(just moral superiority). OSI says only the technical ability matters. Kyle From thatch45 at gmail.com Wed May 20 14:17:02 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Wed May 20 14:17:11 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE Message-ID: <6172c17e0905201317v7abb20c3i56e27cd44028fff0@mail.gmail.com> A while back John Anderson had a great post about setting up vim as a python IDE (http://blog.sontek.net/tag/vim/), I had found most of what he wrote invaluable and I left my eclipse-pydev ways behind me. Unfortunately I did not make a full copy of the post, and I only set up some of his suggestions mingled with some of my own, does anyone have a copy of his post? Or better yet does anyone have a bunch of python vim tricks up their sleve that they would be willing to share? -Tom Hatch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090520/2362d8a5/attachment.html From herlo1 at gmail.com Wed May 20 14:26:08 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Wed May 20 14:26:17 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0905201317v7abb20c3i56e27cd44028fff0@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0905201317v7abb20c3i56e27cd44028fff0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > A while back John Anderson had a great post about setting up vim as a python > IDE (http://blog.sontek.net/tag/vim/), I had found most of what he wrote > invaluable and I left my eclipse-pydev ways behind me.? Unfortunately I did > not make a full copy of the post, and I only set up some of his suggestions > mingled with some of my own, does anyone have a copy of his post?? Or better > yet does anyone have a bunch of python vim tricks up their sleve that they > would be willing to share? > > > -Tom Hatch I actually think I have his .vimrc and vim plugins stuff. I'll see if I can find it tonight and post here if so. Cheers, Clint From thatch45 at gmail.com Wed May 20 14:29:47 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Wed May 20 14:29:58 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: References: <6172c17e0905201317v7abb20c3i56e27cd44028fff0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6172c17e0905201329x52df5743u23bb04e9741ca4f2@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Clint! On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Clint Savage wrote: > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Thomas S Hatch > wrote: > > A while back John Anderson had a great post about setting up vim as a > python > > IDE (http://blog.sontek.net/tag/vim/), I had found most of what he wrote > > invaluable and I left my eclipse-pydev ways behind me. Unfortunately I > did > > not make a full copy of the post, and I only set up some of his > suggestions > > mingled with some of my own, does anyone have a copy of his post? Or > better > > yet does anyone have a bunch of python vim tricks up their sleve that > they > > would be willing to share? > > > > > > -Tom Hatch > > I actually think I have his .vimrc and vim plugins stuff. I'll see if > I can find it tonight and post here if so. > > Cheers, > > Clint > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090520/44418172/attachment.htm From tvanry at gmail.com Wed May 20 14:33:46 2009 From: tvanry at gmail.com (Thad Van Ry) Date: Wed May 20 14:33:55 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0905201317v7abb20c3i56e27cd44028fff0@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0905201317v7abb20c3i56e27cd44028fff0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <38fc83270905201333s7e23df0ckcc0ff3f4f621d598@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 2:17 PM, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > > Unfortunately I did not make a full copy of the post, and I only set up some of his suggestions mingled with some of my own, does anyone have a copy of his post? Google for sontek and vim together and then view the cached version of his blog and you will have that post. Thad From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Wed May 20 14:37:11 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Wed May 20 14:37:19 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: GNU + Linux In-Reply-To: <200905200935.42943.benko.kevin@gmail.com> References: <200905200935.42943.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A1469F7.3020306@ridgecrestherbals.com> Kevin Benko wrote: > Then, independently, Linus Torvalds created a UNIX-like kernel as a > graduate student. > > What we call "Linux" should more properly be called GNU+Linux, or, > ${DISTRIBUTION}+GNU+Linux. Stallman's GNU is an inherent part of "Linux", > and without the GNU tools, Linux would be like a brain in a bottle. > > Question: Would anyone care about, or even be aware of, Torvald's Linux > kernel if it hadn't been for Stallman and GNU? Please let us not forget > that "Linux" is but one part of GNU+Linux, and even the GCC compiler we > use to compile the Linux kernel is GNU. Yes. Linus' original kernel work was more related to Tannenbaum's Minix and BSD than Gnu's HURD, which is a great idea (Quantum's QNX RTOS is also an ahead-of-its-time message-passing microkernel) but never got off the ground. I personally wish that Linus had adopted the microkernel, rather than the monolith kernel model, but it's mostly academic now. Yes, GNU made some great tools, including GCC, but GNU never had any real momentum UNTIL Linus came along. BSD also existed before GNU, though it wasn't truly "free" until later (post-ATT). Ironically, RMS' insistence that we call Linux "GNU/Linux" is the very kind of after-the-fact use condition that he rails against (though to his credit he has only suggested/argued for it, not sued over it as others might have done). > Yes, RMS is a bit irritating to some people [[I think he would turn Ghandi > into a chainsmoker]]. He is one of the few people that "walks the walk", > and that makes me, and other hypocrites, a bit uncomfortable. Well, he isn't the Messiah. I use emacs, but it is a massive kludge. I still find it easier than vim, though much slower loading, but that's just me. I like tools that work, and GNU tools work, and work well, though they have done very little to improve Unix at its core (except making it free as in speech/beer) and in many cases have fossilized its quirks. While I agree with him on the benefits of free software, I am not convinced it is the only way to go, or that proprietary software is inherently evil (though it biggest defender may be). -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From chad at planetmayfield.com Wed May 20 14:40:20 2009 From: chad at planetmayfield.com (Chad R Mayfield) Date: Wed May 20 14:40:26 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: References: <6172c17e0905201317v7abb20c3i56e27cd44028fff0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Clint Savage wrote: > I actually think I have his .vimrc and vim plugins stuff. I'll see if > I can find it tonight and post here if so. > In the meantime you can use google to do some research to actually see his post (http://blog.sontek.net/2008/05/11/python-with-a-modular-ide-vim/). In google search fo 'sontek vim python', without single quotes... First result is http://blog.sontek.net/tag/vim/, however when clicked it produces a 404, google cache to the rescue! http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:9pV3Uk2KsU8J:blog.sontek.net/tag/vim/+sontek+vim+python&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a -- Chad R Mayfield chad@planetmayfield.com GPG Key: 0C9A026F http://www.planetmayfield.com/ http://www.chadmayfield.com/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/chadmayfield -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090520/b33838a7/attachment.html From thatch45 at gmail.com Wed May 20 14:45:09 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Wed May 20 14:45:12 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: References: <6172c17e0905201317v7abb20c3i56e27cd44028fff0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6172c17e0905201345w33a214ddg3c956296d9a16527@mail.gmail.com> Sweet! Thanks! On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Chad R Mayfield wrote: > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 2:26 PM, Clint Savage wrote: > >> I actually think I have his .vimrc and vim plugins stuff. I'll see if >> I can find it tonight and post here if so. >> > > > In the meantime you can use google to do some research to actually see his > post (http://blog.sontek.net/2008/05/11/python-with-a-modular-ide-vim/). > > In google search fo 'sontek vim python', without single quotes... > > First result is http://blog.sontek.net/tag/vim/, however when clicked it > produces a 404, google cache to the rescue! > > > http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:9pV3Uk2KsU8J:blog.sontek.net/tag/vim/+sontek+vim+python&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a > > > -- > Chad R Mayfield > chad@planetmayfield.com > GPG Key: 0C9A026F > http://www.planetmayfield.com/ > http://www.chadmayfield.com/ > http://www.linkedin.com/in/chadmayfield > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090520/f282bca4/attachment-0001.htm From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Wed May 20 14:45:49 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Wed May 20 14:45:56 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-officers]: May 20th SLLUG - PHP for beginners ... In-Reply-To: <20090519193435.GC20975@sovereign.org> References: <20090519193435.GC20975@sovereign.org> Message-ID: will there be a recording or the presentation? i can't come. On 5/19/09, Jim Freeman wrote: > > This month's Salt Lake Linux Users Group meeting will cover PHP essentials > (PHP for Dummies?) > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PHP > http://www.php.net/ > > A small(-ish), self-contained but *very* useful script will be dissected > and explained as a real-world example. > > No give-aways (custodian of same will be out of town ...). Expect a short > meeting. > > Time/Date: > ---------- > Wednesday, May 20, 2009 > 7:10pm p.m. > > Place: > ---------- > Room 101 or 103 in Lower Warnock Engineering Building > > Directions/Parking: > Directions - [http://www.map.utah.edu/index.jsp?find=62] > Parking can be found just East of the WEB building and there is a big > lot just North of the Merrill Engineering building (MEB). > Parking is free after 6:00 (Based on the signs posted. Always check in > case this changes.) > > Special thanks go to: > - U of U for providing the meeting room. > - Various Volunteers > _______________________________________________ > sllug-officers mailing list > sllug-officers@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-officers > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From remo at italy1.com Wed May 20 14:46:02 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (Remo Mattei) Date: Wed May 20 14:46:18 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I personally like vim. It?s super and works on every linux/unix/bsd boxes.... (and mac of course)... Just my 2 cents.. Remo On 5/20/09 2:40 PM, "Chad R Mayfield" wrote: > > > In the meantime you can use google to do some research to actually see his > post (http://blog.sontek.net/2008/05/11/python-with-a-modular-ide-vim/). > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090520/626b1f7d/attachment.html From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Wed May 20 14:50:37 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Wed May 20 14:50:45 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: anyone know a good vim tutorial? i know vim should come with one, but mine didn't. On 5/20/09, Remo Mattei wrote: > I personally like vim. It?s super and works on every linux/unix/bsd > boxes.... (and mac of course)... > > Just my 2 cents.. > > Remo > > > On 5/20/09 2:40 PM, "Chad R Mayfield" wrote: >> >> >> In the meantime you can use google to do some research to actually see his >> post (http://blog.sontek.net/2008/05/11/python-with-a-modular-ide-vim/). >> >> >> > > -- the blendmaster From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Wed May 20 14:52:28 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Wed May 20 14:52:31 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: FSF vs. OSI In-Reply-To: <4A1436C5.1060109@unum5.org> References: <2B2CEF0E4EE10B449E5D9BB95E6DA0E801124BF4@MAIL2.csw.l-3com.com> <4A1436C5.1060109@unum5.org> Message-ID: i think that from what you said the apple licence is good - it actually lets you be free and commercial. now, apples actual software is another matter... On 5/20/09, Kyle Waters wrote: > mark.k.spute@L-3com.com wrote: >> Or am I missing the entire point? >> >> > > FSF: Sharing is a moral principal. > OSI: Sharing creates better code. > > FSF recognizes the BSD license as free. They do not recognize the apple > license as free(it requires you submit all changes back to apple). > OSI recognizes the apple license as open source. They also recognize > other licenses that give the primary copyright holder special rights. > > FSF does not claim technical superiority from their licensing(just moral > superiority). > OSI says only the technical ability matters. > > Kyle > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From thatch45 at gmail.com Wed May 20 14:49:34 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Wed May 20 14:54:43 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6172c17e0905201349h14e40191me0e695165fd8d0a4@mail.gmail.com> Heck vim can be that much needed breath of fresh air when faced with a windows system On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Remo Mattei wrote: > I personally like vim. It?s super and works on every linux/unix/bsd > boxes.... (and mac of course)... > > Just my 2 cents.. > > Remo > > > On 5/20/09 2:40 PM, "Chad R Mayfield" wrote: > > > > In the meantime you can use google to do some research to actually see his > post (http://blog.sontek.net/2008/05/11/python-with-a-modular-ide-vim/). > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090520/54dca446/attachment.html From dragen at gmail.com Wed May 20 14:58:09 2009 From: dragen at gmail.com (Adam Barrett) Date: Wed May 20 14:58:14 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6902ba8e0905201358r2bb0a1b0y74984f371f84ae61@mail.gmail.com> Tux Training has a lot of small articles on vi(m) http://tuxtraining.com/2008/03/12/how-to-use-the-vi On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Christian Horne wrote: > anyone know a good vim tutorial? i know vim should come with one, but > mine didn't. > > On 5/20/09, Remo Mattei wrote: >> I personally like vim. It?s super and works on every linux/unix/bsd >> boxes.... (and mac of course)... >> >> Just my 2 cents.. >> >> Remo >> >> >> On 5/20/09 2:40 PM, "Chad R Mayfield" wrote: >>> >>> >>> In the meantime you can use google to do some research to actually see his >>> post (http://blog.sontek.net/2008/05/11/python-with-a-modular-ide-vim/). >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > -- > the blendmaster > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- Adam Barrett dragen@gmail.com From herlo1 at gmail.com Wed May 20 15:00:25 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Wed May 20 15:00:30 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-officers]: May 20th SLLUG - PHP for beginners ... In-Reply-To: References: <20090519193435.GC20975@sovereign.org> Message-ID: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Christian Horne wrote: > will there be a recording or the presentation? i can't come. Normally yes, but I've been feeling crappy all day. Unless someone else wants to record it, I don't think it'll be recorded. - Clint From thatch45 at gmail.com Wed May 20 15:00:54 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Wed May 20 15:01:04 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6172c17e0905201400r54584d84m85de9a8bb969a947@mail.gmail.com> where did you get vim from? try typing vimtutor that will get you started, and if all else fails remember : ESC:wq On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Christian Horne wrote: > anyone know a good vim tutorial? i know vim should come with one, but > mine didn't. > > On 5/20/09, Remo Mattei wrote: > > I personally like vim. It?s super and works on every linux/unix/bsd > > boxes.... (and mac of course)... > > > > Just my 2 cents.. > > > > Remo > > > > > > On 5/20/09 2:40 PM, "Chad R Mayfield" wrote: > >> > >> > >> In the meantime you can use google to do some research to actually see > his > >> post (http://blog.sontek.net/2008/05/11/python-with-a-modular-ide-vim/ > ). > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > -- > the blendmaster > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090520/77eb91a4/attachment-0001.htm From shaun.kruger at gmail.com Wed May 20 15:03:31 2009 From: shaun.kruger at gmail.com (Shaun Kruger) Date: Wed May 20 15:03:34 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0905201349h14e40191me0e695165fd8d0a4@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0905201349h14e40191me0e695165fd8d0a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > Heck vim can be that much needed breath of fresh air when faced with a > windows system Why do you think I always install vim on my windows machines? It's always nice to have a real editor around. Shaun From thatch45 at gmail.com Wed May 20 15:11:30 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Wed May 20 15:11:39 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: References: <6172c17e0905201349h14e40191me0e695165fd8d0a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6172c17e0905201411q618e0b78s493af09baef468d5@mail.gmail.com> Windows, I mean, how freaking off the gravy train do you have to be to distribute an OS without a decent editor, and without a way to grep! On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:03 PM, Shaun Kruger wrote: > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Thomas S Hatch > wrote: > > Heck vim can be that much needed breath of fresh air when faced with a > > windows system > > Why do you think I always install vim on my windows machines? It's > always nice to have a real editor around. > > Shaun > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090520/6b6f02ad/attachment.html From jake.pollmann at gmail.com Wed May 20 15:42:32 2009 From: jake.pollmann at gmail.com (Jake Pollmann) Date: Wed May 20 15:42:35 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0905201411q618e0b78s493af09baef468d5@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0905201349h14e40191me0e695165fd8d0a4@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0905201411q618e0b78s493af09baef468d5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: 2009/5/20 Thomas S Hatch : > Windows, I mean, how freaking off the gravy train do you have to be to distribute an OS without a decent editor, and without a way to grep! I was surprised to find that the Windows 7 RC doesn't even come with the old MSDOS edit.com editor. In fairness though, the DOS commands find and findstr are a usable subset what grep is and Powershell's select-string command is just as powerful as grep. JP From sdmorrey at gmail.com Wed May 20 15:47:36 2009 From: sdmorrey at gmail.com (Steven Morrey) Date: Wed May 20 15:47:39 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Linux Tip of the Day! Message-ID: In celebration of the SLLUG anniversary, I thought it might be nice to start a regular Linux Tip of the Day (I'll try to do it at least once a week). I learn something new everyday, as I'm sure each of you do, and so I'd like to share the neat little things that I find from time to time that may be of help. The point is that if it's something simple and/or easy that might make someones life just a little easier, for instance how to turn on syntax highlighting in VI by default or any number of other kewl tips and tricks. I'll start... The other day I realized it's memorial day weekend, this means among other things I'm going to have umpteen million relatives over who may wish to use the house computer to check email, look up friends on facebook or whatever. Last year was a bit of a disaster since each person who used the system guest account would invariably "tweak" things to there liking. This of course making it a pain for everyone else who came by. This year I decided to do things a little differently. I scrapped the system guest account and created a whole new one. But this time I set the guest user home directory to a ramdisk (on some systems you want to just set it setting it to /dev/shm/guest). Now no matter if little Johnny changes the wallpaper, or Tina accidently deletes the application bar, everytime anyone logs in, they get a new fresh, gnome, kde, xfce whatever session to play with to their hearts desire. Enjoy! Sincerely, Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090520/3f488961/attachment.htm From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Wed May 20 16:06:23 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Wed May 20 16:06:31 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: <6902ba8e0905201358r2bb0a1b0y74984f371f84ae61@mail.gmail.com> References: <6902ba8e0905201358r2bb0a1b0y74984f371f84ae61@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A147EDF.6080907@ridgecrestherbals.com> Adam Barrett wrote: > Tux Training has a lot of small articles on vi(m) > > http://tuxtraining.com/2008/03/12/how-to-use-the-vi Maybe I'm dense, but in every vim tutorial, I seem to miss a central feature: global confirmed search-and-replace, which I find myself using all the time. That more than anything else has kept me using emacs all these years (isn't that sad?) so any pointers will be appreciated. Just answered my own question-- google turned up the pretty cryptic command: %s/search/replace/gc which I suppose I had better memorize and try out. It does seem like the emacs commands are almost equally cryptic, but easier to put together with prompting, command completion, help and such. Maybe its a learning curve thing, but it seems the vi curve is pretty brutal. nano is easier, but still not nice. -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Wed May 20 16:13:17 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Wed May 20 16:13:30 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Linux Tip of the Day! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A14807D.4010006@ridgecrestherbals.com> Steven Morrey wrote: > In celebration of the SLLUG anniversary, I thought it might be nice to > start a regular Linux Tip of the Day (I'll try to do it at least once a > week). Isn't that a Tip of the Week? > I scrapped the system guest account and created a whole new one. But > this time I set the guest user home directory to a ramdisk (on some > systems you want to just set it setting it to /dev/shm/guest). > Now no matter if little Johnny changes the wallpaper, or Tina accidently > deletes the application bar, everytime anyone logs in, they get a new > fresh, gnome, kde, xfce whatever session to play with to their hearts > desire. Brilliant! I love it! Thanks for sharing. If we all did this every time we discovered something new, this forum would be really useful (even more than it is already). A lot of problems I run into (like the vi global replace) never rise to the top level of "things I gotta solve right NOW" so I never bother to search them out, they remain a minor annoyance, and tips like this are just great. -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From herlo1 at gmail.com Wed May 20 16:18:18 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Wed May 20 16:18:33 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: <4A147EDF.6080907@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <6902ba8e0905201358r2bb0a1b0y74984f371f84ae61@mail.gmail.com> <4A147EDF.6080907@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Matt Warnock wrote: > Adam Barrett wrote: >> Tux Training has a lot of small articles on vi(m) >> >> http://tuxtraining.com/2008/03/12/how-to-use-the-vi > > Maybe I'm dense, but in every vim tutorial, I seem to miss a central > feature: global confirmed search-and-replace, which I find myself using all > the time. ?That more than anything else has kept me using emacs all these > years (isn't that sad?) so any pointers will be appreciated. > > Just answered my own question-- google turned up the pretty cryptic command: > > %s/search/replace/gc > > which I suppose I had better memorize and try out. > > It does seem like the emacs commands are almost equally cryptic, but easier > to put together with prompting, command completion, help and such. ?Maybe > its a learning curve thing, but it seems the vi curve is pretty brutal. > ?nano is easier, but still not nice. > Actually, that's an easy thing to break apart, just think of it this way: %s - search on every line in this file (you can also do things like 1,15s which is search lines 1 through 15) /search - what to search for (regular expression rules apply here) /replace - what to replace it with /g - do this globally on every line, in other words, if the search criteria are met more than once on a line, do the replacement each time /c - confirm that you want to do this on every line / - if you leave the g or c off (and there are tons of other useful values here) the first value on each line that matches will be replaced Hope that helps. Cheers, Clint From sdmorrey at gmail.com Wed May 20 16:25:40 2009 From: sdmorrey at gmail.com (Steven Morrey) Date: Wed May 20 16:25:44 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Linux Tip of the Day! In-Reply-To: <4A14807D.4010006@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <4A14807D.4010006@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: Well the goal is to post daily, and the hope is people will submit tips to me, and I'll post them, or they could even post the tips themselves. Whatever works :) On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Matt Warnock < mwarnock@ridgecrestherbals.com> wrote: > Steven Morrey wrote: > >> In celebration of the SLLUG anniversary, I thought it might be nice to >> start a regular Linux Tip of the Day (I'll try to do it at least once a >> week). >> > > Isn't that a Tip of the Week? > > I scrapped the system guest account and created a whole new one. But this >> time I set the guest user home directory to a ramdisk (on some systems you >> want to just set it setting it to /dev/shm/guest). >> Now no matter if little Johnny changes the wallpaper, or Tina accidently >> deletes the application bar, everytime anyone logs in, they get a new fresh, >> gnome, kde, xfce whatever session to play with to their hearts desire. >> > > Brilliant! I love it! Thanks for sharing. If we all did this every time > we discovered something new, this forum would be really useful (even more > than it is already). A lot of problems I run into (like the vi global > replace) never rise to the top level of "things I gotta solve right NOW" so > I never bother to search them out, they remain a minor annoyance, and tips > like this are just great. > > -- > Matt Warnock, President > RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090520/56bc0d3a/attachment-0001.html From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Wed May 20 18:21:22 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Wed May 20 18:21:32 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: References: <6902ba8e0905201358r2bb0a1b0y74984f371f84ae61@mail.gmail.com> <4A147EDF.6080907@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <4A149E82.4000602@ridgecrestherbals.com> Clint Savage wrote: > Actually, that's an easy thing to break apart, just think of it this way: > > Hope that helps. Nice explanation, Clint, but I did find similar info on the other site, when I looked there, and I should have said so, sorry. I wish you had written some of the vi tutorials I have seen. They could use your simple and commonsense approach. I guess my real problem is that it seems vi assumes you know all these one-letter commands, ranges, flags, and such, which I always have to look up, and if they were ever in the man page, they were never easy to find. (Bless Google!) Usually the man page just gives the command-line options, which are the very smallest part of the daily use of any editor. I know that one of vi's strengths is that it can be scripted, but I rarely use any editor (visual or otherwise) that way. (Bless perl!) What I really want to know is how to edit text efficiently, which the man page explains not at all, so I have to rely on unofficial tutorials and cheat sheets, that seem to teach it in a very haphazard and disorganized way. Is there a better way? Emacs (and nano, and WPedit, DOS edit, and most others) provide a little more prompting and a status/menu bar that give you some guidance, which makes the learning curve a bit easier. Even minicom and other really old-school curses programs do this. A single line of a screen is a small price to pay for knowing where your cursor is, what mode you are in, what your options are, and how to get more help, and vi usually uses that extra line anyway--it just doesn't seem to use the real estate well. I realize that there are still dumb terminals on which vi's bare-bones update-nothing-but-the-current-line approach may be more efficient (even much more efficient), but most of us never touch a VT-100 or a 300-baud modem anymore. On my Ubuntu machine, vi's :help gives little info, but it does at least explain that's because only vim-tiny is installed by default. If the same minimal space was allocated to a real (if concise) help page (like nano's or Minicom's) it would be easier to learn. Most modern editors implement the concept of a selected (highlighted) region and a clipboard or scrap, on which you can operate with the (by now, since Apple Lisa circa 1982) industry-standard control keys (C-X, C-C, C-V, and C-Z), or at least something closely analogous (e.g. C-Y in emacs). Most modern editors are largely modeless, or modes are limited to a single command, after which you return to insert/overtype mode (yes, I realize the incongruity, and never use overtype mode except by accident). To those who have grown up with word processing of any flavor, these functions all seem pretty basic. Are they there in vi at all? I NEVER want to specify line numbers if I can help it (though sure, the ability to script them is nice if needed), but highlight & delete/typeover, cut & paste, undo, search and replace, and similar concepts using the region and the clipboard (however named) are things I use all the time. How do you do these in vi? I understand (perhaps wrongly) that : is for command mode, but if you are in insert or overtype mode (the only other modes I know of), you need to hit first, THEN :, so what does : REALLY do, or are there other non-colon command modes? Is there a vi tutorial for the word-processing-spoiled user? Or are they too completely "apples and oranges" for the concepts to even apply? I would like the lower overhead, always available, fast load of vi if I can learn to use it efficiently. So far that has eluded me for 20 years or more. Sorry for the ramble. -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From jfriend31 at comcast.net Wed May 20 18:39:29 2009 From: jfriend31 at comcast.net (jack User) Date: Wed May 20 18:39:38 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: syntax Message-ID: <1242866369.7918.6.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> i am trying to copy fonts from /home/.fonts/ to /etc/X11/fonts/ttf i created the directory "ttf" in the "fonts" directory. no matter how i type that the system tells me "ttf" is not a directory--even after i ran updatedb. please tell me why this is wrong: cp /home/.fonts/ *.ttf /etc/X11/fonts/ttf *.ttf or moving to the "ttf" directory and cp /home/.fonts/ *.ttf *.ttf neither works thank you, jack -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090520/546fa8c2/attachment.htm From richard at esplins.org Wed May 20 19:29:36 2009 From: richard at esplins.org (Richard Esplin) Date: Wed May 20 19:29:47 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: <4A149E82.4000602@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <4A149E82.4000602@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <200905201929.36513.richard-lists@esplins.org> Part of your confusion is that Vim has a lot more than two modes. I like the way it's explained at: http://docs.cs.byu.edu/linux/advanced/vim.html Vi is a mode oriented editor. Depending on your mode, the same keys do different things. . . . It's most important modes . . . are normal mode, command mode and insert mode. Normal mode is the default mode. In normal mode, each keystroke is interpreted as a short command. Command mode is used for commands that require arguments. Command mode is accessed with the colon ':' from normal mode. You can always stop what you are doing and return to normal mode by pressing the escape key ("Esc"--found in the top left corner of your keyboard). Insert mode is accessed with the "i" key. In insert mode you can edit the text in your buffer. You can return to normal mode by pressing the escape key. So in normal mode (the default): l, h, j, k move the cursor y yanks text (like copy) d deletes text (like cut) p puts text (like paste) v moves into visual mode, so the movement keys highlight text Once I understood the basic modes, I found vimtutor really helpful. Before a friend explained the modes, I just found vimtutor confusing. I think most people learn vim by memorizing the most basic commands (using cheatsheets) to move around quickly in normal mode, and then lookup more advanced things as they become valuable. Like emacs, it's mostly muscle memory--but you don't have to worry about throwing out a pinky. Commands is default mode I use a lot: / move into search mode (type a regex and highlight the results--use n to go through them) dd delete a line gg go to top of file G go to bottom of file w move forward by word u undo C-R redo I definitely agree that emacs is easier to pick up and start editing, however, once I got used to it I preferred the feel of working in Vim. Hope this helps, Richard On Wednesday 20 May 2009 18:21:22 Matt Warnock wrote: > Clint Savage wrote: > > Actually, that's an easy thing to break apart, just think of it this way: > > > > Hope that helps. > > Nice explanation, Clint, but I did find similar info on the other site, > when I looked there, and I should have said so, sorry. I wish you had > written some of the vi tutorials I have seen. They could use your > simple and commonsense approach. > > I guess my real problem is that it seems vi assumes you know all these > one-letter commands, ranges, flags, and such, which I always have to > look up, and if they were ever in the man page, they were never easy to > find. (Bless Google!) > Most modern editors implement the concept of a selected (highlighted) > region and a clipboard or scrap, on which you can operate with the (by > now, since Apple Lisa circa 1982) industry-standard control keys (C-X, > C-C, C-V, and C-Z), or at least something closely analogous (e.g. C-Y in > emacs). Most modern editors are largely modeless, or modes are limited > to a single command, after which you return to insert/overtype mode > (yes, I realize the incongruity, and never use overtype mode except by > accident). To those who have grown up with word processing of any > flavor, these functions all seem pretty basic. > > Are they there in vi at all? I NEVER want to specify line numbers if I > can help it (though sure, the ability to script them is nice if needed), > but highlight & delete/typeover, cut & paste, undo, search and replace, > and similar concepts using the region and the clipboard (however named) > are things I use all the time. How do you do these in vi? > > I understand (perhaps wrongly) that : is for command mode, but if you > are in insert or overtype mode (the only other modes I know of), you > need to hit first, THEN :, so what does : REALLY do, or are there > other non-colon command modes? > > Is there a vi tutorial for the word-processing-spoiled user? Or are they > too completely "apples and oranges" for the concepts to even apply? I > would like the lower overhead, always available, fast load of vi if I > can learn to use it efficiently. So far that has eluded me for 20 years > or more. Sorry for the ramble. From caleb at macjunk.net Wed May 20 19:39:48 2009 From: caleb at macjunk.net (Caleb Call) Date: Wed May 20 19:35:51 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: syntax In-Reply-To: <1242866369.7918.6.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> References: <1242866369.7918.6.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> Message-ID: <04507101-F413-440E-B94E-FA0B2F645C80@macjunk.net> try cp /home/.fonts/ *.ttf /etc/X11/fonts/ttf/ You don't need to specify the wildcard for the destination. The only time you need to specify the destination file is if you are changing the file name. On May 20, 2009, at 6:39 PM, jack User wrote: > i am trying to copy fonts from /home/.fonts/ to /etc/X11/fonts/ttf > > i created the directory "ttf" in the "fonts" directory. > > no matter how i type that the system tells me "ttf" is not a > directory--even after i ran updatedb. > > please tell me why this is wrong: > > cp /home/.fonts/ *.ttf /etc/X11/fonts/ttf *.ttf > > or moving to the "ttf" directory and > > cp /home/.fonts/ *.ttf *.ttf > > neither works > > thank you, > > jack > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members From jfriend31 at comcast.net Wed May 20 20:38:59 2009 From: jfriend31 at comcast.net (jack User) Date: Wed May 20 20:39:44 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: syntax In-Reply-To: <04507101-F413-440E-B94E-FA0B2F645C80@macjunk.net> References: <1242866369.7918.6.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> <04507101-F413-440E-B94E-FA0B2F645C80@macjunk.net> Message-ID: <1242873539.9340.15.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> i tried that and the $ changed to > ... found nothing in the "ttf" directory ... could not break out of the > and quit with the File>Quit menu. jack maybe the tick i see at the end of the line does not exist? will try without the tick. copied your suggestion into Terminal and : jack@ubuntu:~$ sudo cp /home/.fonts/ *.ttf /etc/X11/fonts/ttf/ cp: omitting directory `/home/.fonts/' cp: cannot stat `*.ttf': No such file or directory how is it that i can see /etc/X11/fonts/ttf/ and Linux can't? jack On Wed, 2009-05-20 at 19:39 -0600, Caleb Call wrote: > try cp /home/.fonts/ *.ttf /etc/X11/fonts/ttf/ > > You don't need to specify the wildcard for the destination. The only > time you need to specify the destination file is if you are changing > the file name. > > On May 20, 2009, at 6:39 PM, jack User wrote: > > > i am trying to copy fonts from /home/.fonts/ to /etc/X11/fonts/ttf > > > > i created the directory "ttf" in the "fonts" directory. > > > > no matter how i type that the system tells me "ttf" is not a > > directory--even after i ran updatedb. > > > > please tell me why this is wrong: > > > > cp /home/.fonts/ *.ttf /etc/X11/fonts/ttf *.ttf > > > > or moving to the "ttf" directory and > > > > cp /home/.fonts/ *.ttf *.ttf > > > > neither works > > > > thank you, > > > > jack > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090520/c62e1c29/attachment.htm From caleb at macjunk.net Wed May 20 20:58:35 2009 From: caleb at macjunk.net (Caleb Call) Date: Wed May 20 20:54:38 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: syntax In-Reply-To: <1242873539.9340.15.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> References: <1242866369.7918.6.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> <04507101-F413-440E-B94E-FA0B2F645C80@macjunk.net> <1242873539.9340.15.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> Message-ID: <12EA1099-485C-4D30-B658-C92B3970378F@macjunk.net> Sorry, I just modified your command, I didn't realize you an extra space in there. So, copy and paste this in there sudo cp /home/.fonts/*.ttf /etc/X11/fonts/tff/ If you are trying to copy directories, you will need to recursively do it (use the -r flag). In this case, you aren't copying directories, just all files with the extension .ttf so no need for the -r. On May 20, 2009, at 8:38 PM, jack User wrote: > i tried that and the $ changed to > ... found nothing in the "ttf" > directory ... > > could not break out of the > and quit with the File>Quit menu. > > jack > > maybe the tick i see at the end of the line does not exist? > > will try without the tick. > > copied your suggestion into Terminal and : > > jack@ubuntu:~$ sudo cp /home/.fonts/ *.ttf /etc/X11/fonts/ttf/ > cp: omitting directory `/home/.fonts/' > cp: cannot stat `*.ttf': No such file or directory > > how is it that i can see /etc/X11/fonts/ttf/ and Linux can't? > > jack > > > > On Wed, 2009-05-20 at 19:39 -0600, Caleb Call wrote: >> >> try cp /home/.fonts/ *.ttf /etc/X11/fonts/ttf/ >> >> You don't need to specify the wildcard for the destination. The only >> time you need to specify the destination file is if you are changing >> the file name. >> >> On May 20, 2009, at 6:39 PM, jack User wrote: >> >> > i am trying to copy fonts from /home/.fonts/ to /etc/X11/fonts/ttf >> > >> > i created the directory "ttf" in the "fonts" directory. >> > >> > no matter how i type that the system tells me "ttf" is not a >> > directory--even after i ran updatedb. >> > >> > please tell me why this is wrong: >> > >> > cp /home/.fonts/ *.ttf /etc/X11/fonts/ttf *.ttf >> > >> > or moving to the "ttf" directory and >> > >> > cp /home/.fonts/ *.ttf *.ttf >> > >> > neither works >> > >> > thank you, >> > >> > jack >> > >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, >> links. >> > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel >> #Utah >> > sllug-members@sllug.org >> > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090520/c47870bc/attachment.html From jfriend31 at comcast.net Wed May 20 20:56:42 2009 From: jfriend31 at comcast.net (jack User) Date: Wed May 20 20:56:55 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: syntax In-Reply-To: <1242873539.9340.15.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> References: <1242866369.7918.6.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> <04507101-F413-440E-B94E-FA0B2F645C80@macjunk.net> <1242873539.9340.15.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> Message-ID: <1242874602.6829.2.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> here is what worked: from the /home/.fonts directory sudo cp *.ttf /etc/X11/fonts/ttf no marks after the ttf directory at all! found a pattern in UNIX Third Edition jack On Wed, 2009-05-20 at 20:38 -0600, jack User wrote: > i tried that and the $ changed to > ... found nothing in the "ttf" > directory ... > > could not break out of the > and quit with the File>Quit menu. > > jack > > maybe the tick i see at the end of the line does not exist? > > will try without the tick. > > copied your suggestion into Terminal and : > > jack@ubuntu:~$ sudo cp /home/.fonts/ *.ttf /etc/X11/fonts/ttf/ > cp: omitting directory `/home/.fonts/' > cp: cannot stat `*.ttf': No such file or directory > > how is it that i can see /etc/X11/fonts/ttf/ and Linux can't? > > jack > > > > On Wed, 2009-05-20 at 19:39 -0600, Caleb Call wrote: > > > try cp /home/.fonts/ *.ttf /etc/X11/fonts/ttf/ > > > > You don't need to specify the wildcard for the destination. The only > > time you need to specify the destination file is if you are changing > > the file name. > > > > On May 20, 2009, at 6:39 PM, jack User wrote: > > > > > i am trying to copy fonts from /home/.fonts/ to /etc/X11/fonts/ttf > > > > > > i created the directory "ttf" in the "fonts" directory. > > > > > > no matter how i type that the system tells me "ttf" is not a > > > directory--even after i ran updatedb. > > > > > > please tell me why this is wrong: > > > > > > cp /home/.fonts/ *.ttf /etc/X11/fonts/ttf *.ttf > > > > > > or moving to the "ttf" directory and > > > > > > cp /home/.fonts/ *.ttf *.ttf > > > > > > neither works > > > > > > thank you, > > > > > > jack > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090520/8370c019/attachment.htm From byron at theclarkfamily.name Wed May 20 20:58:27 2009 From: byron at theclarkfamily.name (Byron Clark) Date: Wed May 20 20:58:52 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: syntax In-Reply-To: <04507101-F413-440E-B94E-FA0B2F645C80@macjunk.net> References: <1242866369.7918.6.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> <04507101-F413-440E-B94E-FA0B2F645C80@macjunk.net> Message-ID: <20090521025827.GA17008@thinktank.theclarkfamily.name> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 07:39:48PM -0600, Caleb Call wrote: > try cp /home/.fonts/ *.ttf /etc/X11/fonts/ttf/ Let's try that command one more time (leaving out the space between fonts/ and *.ttf: cp /home/.fonts/*.ttf /etc/X11/fonts/ttf -- Byron Clark From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Wed May 20 21:11:41 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Wed May 20 21:12:06 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: <200905201929.36513.richard-lists@esplins.org> References: <4A149E82.4000602@ridgecrestherbals.com> <200905201929.36513.richard-lists@esplins.org> Message-ID: <4A14C66D.7090003@ridgecrestherbals.com> Thanks, Richard. That helps. I have been using the arrow keys to navigate, so I guess I missed the main point of Normal Mode, which appears to be primarily navigation & simple editing. Since the terms used are completely different, and most tutorials & cheat sheets I have seen never mention the scrap/clipboard or whatever it might be called, I misunderstood the edit commands. Thanks. Visual mode appears to be just a subset of Normal Mode, since the same keys do the same thing, except the region is highlighted, so it seems pretty similar to emacs' Ctrl-space, except that the character under the cursor is always in the region, no matter which way you move the cursor. > Once I understood the basic modes, I found vimtutor really helpful. > Before a friend explained the modes, I just found vimtutor confusing. Amen. I appreciate you explaining it to me. > I definitely agree that emacs is easier to pick up and start editing, > however, once I got used to it I preferred the feel of working in Vim. Well, at least I can give it a proper try now. Perhaps my experience will be similar. Thanks again. -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From mike.thomas.heath at gmail.com Thu May 21 00:06:51 2009 From: mike.thomas.heath at gmail.com (Michael Heath) Date: Thu May 21 00:07:19 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: GNU + Linux In-Reply-To: <200905200935.42943.benko.kevin@gmail.com> References: <200905200935.42943.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2e84de770905202306k12711ca7je2be867a35df229a@mail.gmail.com> My personal take on this issue has evolved over time. I used to be interested and somewhat involved with GNU Hurd development, and with discussions on the GNU System Discussion mailing list, which were supposed to be involved with creating an actual coherent release of THE GNU operating system (with Hurd and Mach). At the time, my view was with you - GNU/Linux should be used, to give credit where credit is due. However, I've evolved my view over time, for several reasons: First, I prefer naming to be as specific to the implementation as possible. For example, I prefer "Ubuntu" or "Redhat" over "Linux". Saying that something is "Ubuntu compatible" is a lot clearer and meaningful than saying it is "Linux compatible". Being specific is critical, particularly as Linux becomes used more and by less knowledgeable people. Second, Linux is certainly more than a brain in a bottle without GNU. On a normal install of Ubuntu, for example, virtually none of the default software is an actual GNU product. Even the default shell is ash now. Especially if you're a novice user who doesn't dive into the command line, almost nothing you'll use regularly on a modern Linux desktop is part of GNU. The argument that the operation of the computer depends on GNU in some deep way is rediculous. Third, where do you draw the line? On a default install of UBuntu, wouldn't it be more fair to call it Ubuntu GNOME/Linux? Do you really NEED to name the operating system after the major components of it? The thing that bothers me the most is the GPL crowd (Mainly the FSF and Stallman) scream bloody murder every time a project has tried to change their license to specify that derivative projects satisfy certain trademark or name requirements - XFree86 comes to mind. Yet, they also cry bloody murder whenever someone tries to claim that they shouldn't need to name their derivative work after GNU. -- Michael Heath From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Thu May 21 00:11:32 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Thu May 21 00:11:38 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Linux Tip of the Day! In-Reply-To: References: <4A14807D.4010006@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: cool! how do we get them to you? howabout instead we just post the tip if nobody has that day? that seems easier. ; ) also: what /dev device would you mount as a ramdisk? not /dev/ram* i think... On 5/20/09, Steven Morrey wrote: > Well the goal is to post daily, and the hope is people will submit tips to > me, and I'll post them, or they could even post the tips themselves. > Whatever works :) > > > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Matt Warnock < > mwarnock@ridgecrestherbals.com> wrote: > >> Steven Morrey wrote: >> >>> In celebration of the SLLUG anniversary, I thought it might be nice to >>> start a regular Linux Tip of the Day (I'll try to do it at least once a >>> week). >>> >> >> Isn't that a Tip of the Week? >> >> I scrapped the system guest account and created a whole new one. But >> this >>> time I set the guest user home directory to a ramdisk (on some systems >>> you >>> want to just set it setting it to /dev/shm/guest). >>> Now no matter if little Johnny changes the wallpaper, or Tina accidently >>> deletes the application bar, everytime anyone logs in, they get a new >>> fresh, >>> gnome, kde, xfce whatever session to play with to their hearts desire. >>> >> >> Brilliant! I love it! Thanks for sharing. If we all did this every time >> we discovered something new, this forum would be really useful (even more >> than it is already). A lot of problems I run into (like the vi global >> replace) never rise to the top level of "things I gotta solve right NOW" >> so >> I never bother to search them out, they remain a minor annoyance, and tips >> like this are just great. >> >> -- >> Matt Warnock, President >> RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> > -- the blendmaster From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Thu May 21 00:23:43 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Thu May 21 00:23:46 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: GNU + Linux In-Reply-To: <2e84de770905202306k12711ca7je2be867a35df229a@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905200935.42943.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <2e84de770905202306k12711ca7je2be867a35df229a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: the fsf is kind of 'i hate commercial, so you can't use it, and i'll smash your computer if you don't switch!' . kind of too much passion... On 5/21/09, Michael Heath wrote: > My personal take on this issue has evolved over time. I used to be > interested and somewhat involved with GNU Hurd development, and with > discussions on the GNU System Discussion mailing list, which were > supposed to be involved with creating an actual coherent release of > THE GNU operating system (with Hurd and Mach). At the time, my view > was with you - GNU/Linux should be used, to give credit where credit > is due. > > However, I've evolved my view over time, for several reasons: > > First, I prefer naming to be as specific to the implementation as > possible. For example, I prefer "Ubuntu" or "Redhat" over "Linux". > Saying that something is "Ubuntu compatible" is a lot clearer and > meaningful than saying it is "Linux compatible". Being specific is > critical, particularly as Linux becomes used more and by less > knowledgeable people. > > Second, Linux is certainly more than a brain in a bottle without GNU. > On a normal install of Ubuntu, for example, virtually none of the > default software is an actual GNU product. Even the default shell is > ash now. Especially if you're a novice user who doesn't dive into the > command line, almost nothing you'll use regularly on a modern Linux > desktop is part of GNU. The argument that the operation of the > computer depends on GNU in some deep way is rediculous. > > Third, where do you draw the line? On a default install of UBuntu, > wouldn't it be more fair to call it Ubuntu GNOME/Linux? Do you really > NEED to name the operating system after the major components of it? > > The thing that bothers me the most is the GPL crowd (Mainly the FSF > and Stallman) scream bloody murder every time a project has tried to > change their license to specify that derivative projects satisfy > certain trademark or name requirements - XFree86 comes to mind. Yet, > they also cry bloody murder whenever someone tries to claim that they > shouldn't need to name their derivative work after GNU. > > -- > Michael Heath > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From benko.kevin at gmail.com Thu May 21 03:16:41 2009 From: benko.kevin at gmail.com (Kevin Benko) Date: Thu May 21 03:17:06 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: GNU + Linux In-Reply-To: <2e84de770905202306k12711ca7je2be867a35df229a@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905200935.42943.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <2e84de770905202306k12711ca7je2be867a35df229a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200905210316.54085.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090521/342a98ea/attachment-0001.pgp From benko.kevin at gmail.com Thu May 21 03:41:29 2009 From: benko.kevin at gmail.com (Kevin Benko) Date: Thu May 21 03:42:08 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: GNU + Linux In-Reply-To: References: <200905200935.42943.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <2e84de770905202306k12711ca7je2be867a35df229a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200905210341.45608.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090521/34afc221/attachment.pgp From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Thu May 21 04:23:57 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Thu May 21 04:24:04 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: GNU + Linux In-Reply-To: <200905210341.45608.benko.kevin@gmail.com> References: <200905200935.42943.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <2e84de770905202306k12711ca7je2be867a35df229a@mail.gmail.com> <200905210341.45608.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: wow, you understand it well... On 5/21/09, Kevin Benko wrote: > On Thursday 21 May 2009 00:23:43 Christian Horne wrote: >> the fsf is kind of 'i hate commercial, so you can't use it, and i'll >> smash your computer if you don't switch!' . kind of too much >> passion... > > The GPL is a license. > If a fictional developer, say, Joe Bagof Donuts, chooses, of his own > volition, to license his software under the GPL, then, under the terms of > the GPL, no one may un-GPL that software or its derivatives. And if some > other person, say Ped Xing, takes that GPLed software, makes some changes > to it and refuses to provide the source code that the GPL insists that Ped > Xing *must* do if he derives something from that GPLed code, then the FSF > will stomp on Ped Xing. The GPL is a license, and the FSF will enforce the > terms of that license. > > Concerning FSF and commercial software. > > Where did you get the idea that RMS/FSF was opposed to commercial software? > RMS has always said that free software is not a function of price, but of > liberty, and RMS has always said that there is nothing wrong with selling > software, he's actually encouraged/supported it in many, if not all, of his > speeches. > > Comercial != proprietary. > Proprietary software, generally, has conditions and restrictions on its > use. > > For example: some versions Moft FrontPage clearly stipulate, in the EULA, > that FrontPage users are not permitted to use FrontPage to create anti-Moft > webpages. > > Philosophically, if I pay money for a product, I am certainly going to use > the product as I see fit... I mean... I paid for it! > However, in the realm of prorietary software, the EULA may try to tell me > that I may not use the software to do certain things.... this is wrong. > And this is what the FSF is fighting against. > > However, to the best of my recollection, the FSF hasn't attempted to force > anyone to license something under the GPL. But if a piece of software *is* > licenced under the GPL, the FSF will raise holy hell if anyone attempts to > break that license. > > RMS/FSF is about ideas. And that is the strength of the FSF. Because, in > all facets of life, ideas are the most important. All actions start as > ideas. WIthin the realm of computers, programming, and operating systems, > everything that happens startes as an act of creativity and an intuitive > leap.... ideas. Without a strong basis in philosophical ideas, every > movement will whither, die, an die... forgotten like tears rain. > > Nuts.... I've been philosophising, again. > We now return you to your regularly scheduled kernel compilation.... > > -- > Kevin Benko > > Knoxville, Tennessee: > The kind of place where you need to walk through a > sheep dip on the way out to keep the outside world safe. > > -- the blendmaster From jfriend31 at comcast.net Thu May 21 06:09:03 2009 From: jfriend31 at comcast.net (jack User) Date: Thu May 21 06:09:13 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: syntax In-Reply-To: <20090521025827.GA17008@thinktank.theclarkfamily.name> References: <1242866369.7918.6.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> <04507101-F413-440E-B94E-FA0B2F645C80@macjunk.net> <20090521025827.GA17008@thinktank.theclarkfamily.name> Message-ID: <1242907743.13958.13.camel@ubuntu.ubuntu-domain> thanks to all for your help. jack i suppose my old DOS habits are coming to the fore when i try to use the command line in Linux. On Wed, 2009-05-20 at 20:58 -0600, Byron Clark wrote: > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 07:39:48PM -0600, Caleb Call wrote: > > try cp /home/.fonts/ *.ttf /etc/X11/fonts/ttf/ > > Let's try that command one more time (leaving out the space between > fonts/ and *.ttf: > > cp /home/.fonts/*.ttf /etc/X11/fonts/ttf > > -- > Byron Clark > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090521/d458e5f6/attachment.html From sdmorrey at gmail.com Thu May 21 08:08:15 2009 From: sdmorrey at gmail.com (Steven Morrey) Date: Thu May 21 08:08:20 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Linux Tip of the Day! In-Reply-To: References: <4A14807D.4010006@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: I have this little script I use to make and mount a ramdisk for the guest user, just add it to init. If anyone knows how to get this to run when guest logs in, and maybe unmount the directory when the guest logs out, that would be a great addition BTW. #!/bin/bash #Make and mount a ramdisk for the guest account /sbin/mke2fs -q -m 0 /dev/ram0 /bin/mount /dev/ram0 /home/guest /bin/chown guest:user /home/guest /bin/chmod 0777 /home/guest One final tip... You can set the ramdisk size by adding the following to your kernel line in your /boot/grub/menu.lst ramdisk_size=256000 Obviously replacing 256000 with whatever you're comfortable giving the guest user, I choose 1/4 of installed RAM, but that's just me. Enjoy! Sincerely, Steve p.s. If you want me to post your Linux Tip of The Day, email it to sdmorrey@gmail.com otherwise post it yourself :) On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 12:11 AM, Christian Horne wrote: > cool! how do we get them to you? > howabout instead we just post the tip if nobody has that day? that seems > easier. > ; ) > also: what /dev device would you mount as a ramdisk? not /dev/ram* i > think... > > On 5/20/09, Steven Morrey wrote: > > Well the goal is to post daily, and the hope is people will submit tips > to > > me, and I'll post them, or they could even post the tips themselves. > > Whatever works :) > > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Matt Warnock < > > mwarnock@ridgecrestherbals.com> wrote: > > > >> Steven Morrey wrote: > >> > >>> In celebration of the SLLUG anniversary, I thought it might be nice to > >>> start a regular Linux Tip of the Day (I'll try to do it at least once a > >>> week). > >>> > >> > >> Isn't that a Tip of the Week? > >> > >> I scrapped the system guest account and created a whole new one. But > >> this > >>> time I set the guest user home directory to a ramdisk (on some systems > >>> you > >>> want to just set it setting it to /dev/shm/guest). > >>> Now no matter if little Johnny changes the wallpaper, or Tina > accidently > >>> deletes the application bar, everytime anyone logs in, they get a new > >>> fresh, > >>> gnome, kde, xfce whatever session to play with to their hearts desire. > >>> > >> > >> Brilliant! I love it! Thanks for sharing. If we all did this every > time > >> we discovered something new, this forum would be really useful (even > more > >> than it is already). A lot of problems I run into (like the vi global > >> replace) never rise to the top level of "things I gotta solve right NOW" > >> so > >> I never bother to search them out, they remain a minor annoyance, and > tips > >> like this are just great. > >> > >> -- > >> Matt Warnock, President > >> RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. > >> ______________________________________________________________________ > >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > >> sllug-members@sllug.org > >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > >> > > > > > -- > the blendmaster > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090521/4d88ac62/attachment.htm From sllug at ryansimpkins.com Thu May 21 10:40:30 2009 From: sllug at ryansimpkins.com (Ryan Simpkins) Date: Thu May 21 10:40:43 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: May PLUG Meeting; The Open Source Datacenter In-Reply-To: References: <58926.64.0.192.232.1242072928.squirrel@io.ryansimpkins.com> <4A0DEECC.1020403@xmission.com> Message-ID: <56955.64.0.192.232.1242924030.squirrel@io.ryansimpkins.com> On Wed, May 20, 2009 08:22, Justin McClure wrote: > I think I am wrong about that date for Phoenix. I found the website dated > 1998 in archive.org. > The first PLUG meeting was held on September 11th, 1996. http://www.plug.org/node/7 -Ryan From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Thu May 21 11:02:46 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Thu May 21 11:02:58 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: GNU + Linux In-Reply-To: <200905210341.45608.benko.kevin@gmail.com> References: <200905200935.42943.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <2e84de770905202306k12711ca7je2be867a35df229a@mail.gmail.com> <200905210341.45608.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A158936.9080309@ridgecrestherbals.com> Kevin Benko wrote: > Where did you get the idea that RMS/FSF was opposed to commercial software? > RMS has always said that free software is not a function of price, but > of liberty, and RMS has always said that there is nothing wrong with > selling software, he's actually encouraged/supported it in many, if not > all, of his speeches. He is opposed to proprietary (closed-source) software, and all his rhetoric paints it as evil. I have been involved with several businesses that created their own internal software as a primary competitive advantage (like Google). RMS seems to feel that this business model is exploitative of programmers and users alike, and that ALL software should be free. He even writes silly songs to that effect. Obviously, I don't agree. But I think that free software is also a great thing. We should all be free to use whichever model works best for BOTH parties. I use both at work, regularly. > Comercial != proprietary. > Proprietary software, generally, has conditions and restrictions on its use. So does open-source or even "free" software. The GPL is all about those conditions. The only code that has no conditions is public-domain code. > For example: some versions Moft FrontPage clearly stipulate, in the > EULA, that FrontPage users are not permitted to use FrontPage to create > anti-Moft webpages. And Roedy Greene's Abundance was not allowed for military purposes. GPL software can't be distributed without source code. Military software (written by government contract) can't be distributed at all, without a long stretch at Leavenworth. > Philosophically, if I pay money for a product, I am certainly going to > use the product as I see fit... I mean... I paid for it! > However, in the realm of prorietary software, the EULA may try to tell > me that I may not use the software to do certain things.... this is wrong. > And this is what the FSF is fighting against. If the guy that wrote the software and you agree on your intended use, that is fine. But the fact that you paid for it, does not make your wanting to violate the EULA "ok". The people that wrote it are ONLY willing to sell (license, really) under their EULA, and if you are NOT willing to abide by their EULA, you should not buy it, and should make other arrangements to get the job done. > However, to the best of my recollection, the FSF hasn't attempted to > force anyone to license something under the GPL. But if a piece of > software *is* licenced under the GPL, the FSF will raise holy hell if > anyone attempts to break that license. As well they should, same as M$ or anyone else. Users can't unilaterally make up their own rules about how they use other people's software, in any just world. Now if the developer has a monopoly and uses unfair competitive business practices, some courts might find that the EULA is unenforceable by a court of equity, but that is another and more speculative question. I certainly wouldn't bet my living on it. -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From alansyoungiii at gmail.com Thu May 21 11:03:20 2009 From: alansyoungiii at gmail.com (Alan Young) Date: Thu May 21 11:03:43 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: <4A149E82.4000602@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <6902ba8e0905201358r2bb0a1b0y74984f371f84ae61@mail.gmail.com> <4A147EDF.6080907@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4A149E82.4000602@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 18:21, Matt Warnock wrote: > Emacs (and nano, and WPedit, DOS edit, and most others) provide a little > more prompting and a status/menu bar that give you some guidance, which > makes the learning curve a bit easier. Even minicom and other really > old-school curses programs do this. ?A single line of a screen is a small > price to pay for knowing where your cursor is, what mode you are in, what > your options are, and how to get more help, and vi usually uses that extra > line anyway--it just doesn't seem to use the real estate well. ?I realize > that there are still dumb terminals on which vi's bare-bones > update-nothing-but-the-current-line approach may be more efficient (even > much more efficient), but most of us never touch a VT-100 or a 300-baud > modem anymore. I don't know about vi, but most likely your Ubuntu installation just has vi linked to vim. Vim provides a status bar that has all that info (and more if you want it). You'll want to check out the statusline option in your .vimrc. -- Alan From herlo1 at gmail.com Thu May 21 11:13:24 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Thu May 21 11:13:27 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG May 13 Today 11:30am -- Cancelled In-Reply-To: <200905171106.59143.benko.kevin@gmail.com> References: <200905171106.59143.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Kevin Benko wrote: > On Wednesday 13 May 2009 09:29:11 Clint Savage wrote: > [snip] >> I apologize for the last minute notice. ?I'm hoping to have the Basics >> of Puppet presentation next month. > [snip] > > Greetings, Clint: > > I thought that I was planning to give a talk on iptables in June. > What's up? > > -- > Kevin Benko > Well, I figured I'd push everything back a month, but it turns out that he can't do it anyway, so you are on. But here's the thing. I've been way too busy to get the room reserved at the SL Library, so I'll be working on that next week. After that, I am changing jobs, which means my schedule might be a bit tighter. I'm looking into options; moving, transferring leadership, etc. but haven't given up quite yet. The group is coming along nicely, so I'm wanting to continue it. Plan on presenting this month. I have a guy who's wanting to follow-up on your talk with an advanced iptables talk too, so that'll be awesome. Thanks for the willingness, Cheers, Clint From benko.kevin at gmail.com Thu May 21 11:15:31 2009 From: benko.kevin at gmail.com (Kevin Benko) Date: Thu May 21 11:15:52 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Need Help: KDE 4.2 Sound Issues With knotify4 Message-ID: <200905211115.42656.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090521/4f60dd2c/attachment.pgp From unum at unum5.org Thu May 21 11:33:11 2009 From: unum at unum5.org (Kyle Waters) Date: Thu May 21 11:33:24 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: GNU + Linux In-Reply-To: <4A158936.9080309@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <200905200935.42943.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <2e84de770905202306k12711ca7je2be867a35df229a@mail.gmail.com> <200905210341.45608.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <4A158936.9080309@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <4A159057.5000802@unum5.org> Matt Warnock wrote: > > He is opposed to proprietary (closed-source) software, and all his > rhetoric paints it as evil. I have been involved with several > businesses that created their own internal software as a primary > competitive advantage (like Google). RMS seems to feel that this > business model is exploitative of programmers and users alike, and > that ALL software should be free. He even writes silly songs to that > effect. Obviously, I don't agree. But I think that free software is > also a great thing. We should all be free to use whichever model > works best for BOTH parties. I use both at work, regularly. I want to just clarify one thing here. The GPL does not require you to give your source code back to the project. It only requires that you make the source code available to the same people that you make the binary available to(and prohibits you from restricting them from distributing them). There is a special version of the GPL the requires publication of certain modification when the api is open to public use. Part of this is to prevent embracing and extending of open developed protocols(think Jabber and voice extensions). As I mentioned in an early post RMS has rejected licenses that require the source code be submitted back to the copy right holder. To sum it up. If you are using GPL code solely for your own use. You can make modifications and not even tell anyone. Let alone publish the source code. Kyle From mike.thomas.heath at gmail.com Thu May 21 11:36:46 2009 From: mike.thomas.heath at gmail.com (Michael Heath) Date: Thu May 21 11:37:09 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: GNU + Linux In-Reply-To: <200905210316.54085.benko.kevin@gmail.com> References: <200905200935.42943.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <2e84de770905202306k12711ca7je2be867a35df229a@mail.gmail.com> <200905210316.54085.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2e84de770905211036u191218b7sa504d24a3e7a7ac@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 3:16 AM, Kevin Benko wrote: > Except that GNOME is an acronym for: > GNU Object Model Environment First, let me appologize; I was aware of that being what Gnome used to stand for (that acronym is no longer used by the developers, as GNOME has evolved into something not Network Object oriented; IIRC, its now officially just GNOME, acronym free), but I was under the impression they no longer had any hard ties to the GNU project. Apparently, I was incorrect, and I appologize. What, though, makes a project a GNU Project? I mean, nothing except the absolute basic core of GNOME even works on the actual Hurd based GNU operating system. The same is true with dozens of GNU programs and tools. We're supposed to treat it like a coherent operating system for naming purposes, but its nothing of the sort. Oh, and the /usr/local tree is officially depricated in the actual GNU operating system. And the real GNU operating system uses Stow to organize software. I assure you that your Linux based system differs from the real GNU Operating System in ways too numerous to mention. Naming your operating system GNU implies certain compatabilities that simply don't exist. If you're not going to name the opearating system after a parent wrok because of an implication of compatability, then you might as well be naming your work after everything contained therein. I also disagree with your statement that compatability issues are a matter of the Linux kernel only. This is something that's become increasnigly frustrating to me as I've been helping new Linux users. A website will list a "Linux version" for download, and all you get is a mysterious .rpm file. Whether its Redhat Enterprise, Fedora, or any other RPM based distro, and whether its horribly obsolete and for Redhat 7.0 is left for the user to figure out. If you were to offer a download as a Fedora version, or as a Ubuntu Intrepid version, its much more clear. Even with the hardware issues, customizing compatability info to a particular distro is key. In the past, I've fumbled through unmaintained and poorly written Hardware vendor linux support documentation, trying to install their linux driver which it insisted i need and should have been compatible with my system, only to find out support for the device was built into the distro and I just had to load a module. -- Michael Heath From christec at gmail.com Thu May 21 12:50:51 2009 From: christec at gmail.com (Cameron Christensen) Date: Thu May 21 12:51:05 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Linux Tip of the Day! In-Reply-To: References: <4A14807D.4010006@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 8:08 AM, Steven Morrey wrote: > I have this little script I use to make and mount a ramdisk for the guest > user, just add it to init. > If anyone knows how to get this to run when guest logs in, and maybe > unmount the directory when the guest logs out, that would be a great > addition BTW. > > You could do the same with autofs and tmpfs. autofs would mount and unmount the tmpfs filesystem automatically as guests log in and out. Append to the file: /etc/auto.master /home2 /etc/auto.home2 Create the file with this content: /etc/auto.home2 * -fstype=tmpfs,size=50M :none The " * " acts as a wildcard and matchs the username guest. Modify the /etc/passwd file and change the home directory for the guest users guest:x:525:525::/home2/guest:/bin/bash Restart the autofs daemon. As the guest user logs in autofs creates the filesytem /home2/guest with default permissions of 1777. autofs supports a mount timeout value that would unmount /home2/guest after a length of time. I believe the default is 10 minutes. There are some additional tmpfs options that would could limit the size of the filesystem, number of blocks and/or inodes (man mount and see the tmpfs section). Cameron -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090521/8b67f3f2/attachment.html From benko.kevin at gmail.com Thu May 21 13:11:32 2009 From: benko.kevin at gmail.com (Kevin Benko) Date: Thu May 21 13:11:42 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: GNU + Linux In-Reply-To: <2e84de770905211036u191218b7sa504d24a3e7a7ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <200905200935.42943.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <200905210316.54085.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <2e84de770905211036u191218b7sa504d24a3e7a7ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200905211311.32931.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090521/736f800a/attachment.pgp From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Thu May 21 13:55:29 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Thu May 21 13:55:37 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: GNU + Linux In-Reply-To: <200905211311.32931.benko.kevin@gmail.com> References: <200905200935.42943.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <200905210316.54085.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <2e84de770905211036u191218b7sa504d24a3e7a7ac@mail.gmail.com> <200905211311.32931.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: you can extract an rpm and install it manually, if you find a strange rpm then that's all you need, i install rpms on ubuntu all the time. On 5/21/09, Kevin Benko wrote: > On Thursday 21 May 2009 11:36:46 Michael Heath wrote: > > [snip] >> Apparently, I was incorrect, and I appologize. > [snip] > > Come, now.... no apology is necessary. Since we are all nerds, because > we use GNU+Linux, our human interaction filters are all incoming rather > than outgoing. Hence, I filter everything on the way in. This, however, > is the reason that non-nerds don't communicate well with nerds. non- > nerds filter communications when they talk, nerds filter communications > when they listen. > > -- > Kevin Benko > > > -- the blendmaster From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Thu May 21 13:58:08 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Thu May 21 13:58:10 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG May 13 Today 11:30am -- Cancelled In-Reply-To: References: <200905171106.59143.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: iptables! ohyeah! I've wanted some help with that forever! On 5/21/09, Clint Savage wrote: > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Kevin Benko wrote: >> On Wednesday 13 May 2009 09:29:11 Clint Savage wrote: >> [snip] >>> I apologize for the last minute notice. ?I'm hoping to have the Basics >>> of Puppet presentation next month. >> [snip] >> >> Greetings, Clint: >> >> I thought that I was planning to give a talk on iptables in June. >> What's up? >> >> -- >> Kevin Benko >> > > Well, I figured I'd push everything back a month, but it turns out > that he can't do it anyway, so you are on. But here's the thing. > I've been way too busy to get the room reserved at the SL Library, so > I'll be working on that next week. After that, I am changing jobs, > which means my schedule might be a bit tighter. > > I'm looking into options; moving, transferring leadership, etc. but > haven't given up quite yet. The group is coming along nicely, so I'm > wanting to continue it. > > Plan on presenting this month. I have a guy who's wanting to > follow-up on your talk with an advanced iptables talk too, so that'll > be awesome. > > Thanks for the willingness, > > Cheers, > > Clint > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Thu May 21 14:04:43 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Thu May 21 14:04:50 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Need Help: KDE 4.2 Sound Issues With knotify4 In-Reply-To: <200905211115.42656.benko.kevin@gmail.com> References: <200905211115.42656.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: my kde 4.2 sound worked fine. though i didn't stay on kde 4.x very long, it's horrible, let's hope kde 5 comes around with all the features we miss soon... On 5/21/09, Kevin Benko wrote: > Greetings: > > I recently upgraded to KDE 4.2 > Other than the hassle of dealing with a significantly changed interface > with a significantly changed way of configuring things, I am having some > problems with sound. > > It's not a Linux problem, the soundcard works perfectly for all audio > applications in fluxbox and for all command-line applications players on > the virtual terminals. > > Except when KDE 4.2 is running. > > It seems as if the process knotify4 is grabbing the soundcard and not > letting anything else touch it. Now, if I kill knotify4 and restart it, > I will have access to the soundcard and everything is swell, so I've > kludged a "solution" by dropping a script in ${HOME}/.kde/Autostart to > kill and restart knotify for me when KDE 4.2 starts. > > I don't like this solution, it's like duct-taping something together. > Does anyone have a more "proper" solution? > > [[I've googled and I've searched linuxquestions.org, but have found no > proper and elegant solutions to this problem]] > > -- > Kevin Benko > > Manuals are a waste of time. > -- MiCrOsOfT Maxim > > -- the blendmaster From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Thu May 21 15:25:19 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Thu May 21 15:25:29 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: References: <6902ba8e0905201358r2bb0a1b0y74984f371f84ae61@mail.gmail.com> <4A147EDF.6080907@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4A149E82.4000602@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <4A15C6BF.7050604@ridgecrestherbals.com> Alan Young wrote: > I don't know about vi, but most likely your Ubuntu installation just > has vi linked to vim. Vim provides a status bar that has all that > info (and more if you want it). You'll want to check out the > statusline option in your .vimrc. Thanks, I'll have to check that out. I guess I'm starting up another long learning curve. -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From benko.kevin at gmail.com Thu May 21 15:26:38 2009 From: benko.kevin at gmail.com (Kevin Benko) Date: Thu May 21 15:27:02 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Need Help: KDE 4.2 Sound Issues With knotify4 In-Reply-To: References: <200905211115.42656.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: <200905211526.48146.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090521/34e4af88/attachment-0001.pgp From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Thu May 21 16:58:14 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Thu May 21 16:58:22 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG May 13 Today 11:30am -- Cancelled In-Reply-To: References: <200905171106.59143.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A15DC86.7090606@ridgecrestherbals.com> Christian Horne wrote: > iptables! ohyeah! I've wanted some help with that forever! Amen! I would specifically like to see a way to put variable information in iptables, such as: -A POSTROUTING -s $net/$mask -o $iface -j SNAT --to-source $ipaddr That would make it a lot easier to maintain similar tables between several machines. I guess I could pipe it through perl/sed or something, but I always hoped there was an easier way. -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From u235sentinel at gmail.com Thu May 21 17:14:04 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Thu May 21 17:14:17 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: GNU + Linux In-Reply-To: <4A159057.5000802@unum5.org> References: <200905200935.42943.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <2e84de770905202306k12711ca7je2be867a35df229a@mail.gmail.com> <200905210341.45608.benko.kevin@gmail.com> <4A158936.9080309@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4A159057.5000802@unum5.org> Message-ID: <4A15E03C.1010604@gmail.com> Kyle Waters wrote: > > I want to just clarify one thing here. The GPL does not require you > to give your source code back to the project. It only requires that > you make the source code available to the same people that you make > the binary available to(and prohibits you from restricting them from > distributing them). There is a special version of the GPL the > requires publication of certain modification when the api is open to > public use. Part of this is to prevent embracing and extending of > open developed protocols(think Jabber and voice extensions). As I > mentioned in an early post RMS has rejected licenses that require the > source code be submitted back to the copy right holder. > To sum it up. If you are using GPL code solely for your own use. You > can make modifications and not even tell anyone. Let alone publish > the source code. > Even better if someone doesn't want to give the source code then don't borrow other peoples code and write your own. I had someone tell me today that Linux was bad because you always had to publish your code. Not so. Nvidia for example has a binary and doesn't publish their code. They don't use other's code AFAIK. So they can keep whatever they make. From richard at esplins.org Thu May 21 17:37:57 2009 From: richard at esplins.org (Richard Esplin) Date: Thu May 21 17:38:05 2009 Subject: variables in iptables WAS Re: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG May 13 Today 11:30am -- Cancelled In-Reply-To: <4A15DC86.7090606@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <4A15DC86.7090606@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <200905211737.57959.richard-lists@esplins.org> I use bash variables to do exactly that. I load my firewall rules through a script that I keep in /etc/network/if-up.d (Debian). Scripts in that directory are run whenever an interface is brought up. I have a simple bash script that executes the iptables commands necessary to setup my rules. If that isn't concrete enough, here's the shell of my script: #! /bin/bash # define variables IPTABLES="/sbin/iptables" IFACE_EXT="eth0" IFACE_WIFI="eth1" IFACE_INT="eth2" IPADDR_EXT="000.000.0.0" IPADDR_WIFI="192.168.1.1" IPADDR_INT="192.168.0.1" # delete all existing rules. ${IPTABLES} -F ${IPTABLES} -t nat -F ${IPTABLES} -t mangle -F ${IPTABLES} -X # Unlimited traffic on the loopback interface ${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -i lo -j ACCEPT ${IPTABLES} -A FORWARD -i lo -j ACCEPT # Allow established connections ${IPTABLES} -A INPUT -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT ${IPTABLES} -A FORWARD -i ${IFACE_EXT} -o ${IFACE_INT} -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT ${IPTABLES} -A FORWARD -i ${IFACE_EXT} -o ${IFACE_WIFI} -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT ## OTHER RULES GO HERE ## # Set defaults for everything else ${IPTABLES} -P INPUT DROP ${IPTABLES} -P FORWARD DROP ${IPTABLES} -P OUTPUT ACCEPT This example doesn't replace a presentation, but hopefully it answers your question. Richard On Thursday 21 May 2009 16:58:14 Matt Warnock wrote: > I would specifically like to see a way to put variable information > in iptables, such as: > > -A POSTROUTING -s $net/$mask -o $iface -j SNAT --to-source $ipaddr > > That would make it a lot easier to maintain similar tables between > several machines. > > I guess I could pipe it through perl/sed or something, but I always > hoped there was an easier way. From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Thu May 21 17:50:25 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Thu May 21 17:50:38 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Linux Tip of the Day! In-Reply-To: References: <4A14807D.4010006@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <4A15E8C1.1060700@ridgecrestherbals.com> Steven Morrey wrote: > If anyone knows how to get this to run when guest logs in, and maybe > unmount the directory when the guest logs out, that would be a great > addition BTW. Seems like the ramdisk memory is allocated at boot, so is there any real advantage to mounting and unmounting when the guest user logs in/out? the tmpfs solution outlined previously is better in that regard, perhaps, I don't know tmpfs well. You could always mount the ramdisk at boot time and just clear it completely at login with "rm -rf *" in .profile. That would leave the files beginning with . (like .profile) but most users never see them, and you could clear specific stuff by "rm -rf .mozilla" or overwriting from /etc/skel or the like. Alternatively, you could put in /etc/profile: if [ "$USER" == "guest" ]; then rm -rf /home/guest/* # can't remove . and .. so bury the error message rm -rf /home/guest/.* 2>/dev/null fi Don't know whether this is better/worse than the tmpfs method previously suggested. For that matter, don't know whether a ramdisk or tmpfs is better for this application than the usual hard disk, except that any passwords your guest may enter are never saved to disk, which they might appreciate (if they are smart enough to ask). But if it is really security you want, formatting the ramdisk won't overwrite the sectors, so unless you turn the machine off, the data is still there for another sophisticated user to uncover with 'dd'. You would have to zero the ramdisk before formatting, or overwrite the entire filespace after the steps outlined above. Just my 2 cents. -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From ecantwell at bluehost.com Thu May 21 18:13:48 2009 From: ecantwell at bluehost.com (Erick Cantwell) Date: Thu May 21 18:13:52 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Need Help: KDE 4.2 Sound Issues With knotify4 In-Reply-To: References: <200905211115.42656.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A15EE3C.8000607@bluehost.com> Christian Horne wrote: > my kde 4.2 sound worked fine. though i didn't stay on kde 4.x very > long, it's horrible, let's hope kde 5 comes around with all the > features we miss soon... > > On 5/21/09, Kevin Benko wrote: > >> Greetings: >> >> I recently upgraded to KDE 4.2 >> Other than the hassle of dealing with a significantly changed interface >> with a significantly changed way of configuring things, I am having some >> problems with sound. >> >> It's not a Linux problem, the soundcard works perfectly for all audio >> applications in fluxbox and for all command-line applications players on >> the virtual terminals. >> >> Except when KDE 4.2 is running. >> >> It seems as if the process knotify4 is grabbing the soundcard and not >> letting anything else touch it. Now, if I kill knotify4 and restart it, >> I will have access to the soundcard and everything is swell, so I've >> kludged a "solution" by dropping a script in ${HOME}/.kde/Autostart to >> kill and restart knotify for me when KDE 4.2 starts. >> >> I don't like this solution, it's like duct-taping something together. >> Does anyone have a more "proper" solution? >> >> [[I've googled and I've searched linuxquestions.org, but have found no >> proper and elegant solutions to this problem]] >> >> -- >> Kevin Benko >> >> Manuals are a waste of time. >> -- MiCrOsOfT Maxim >> >> >> > > > From what I can tell this is a bug with KDE 4.2. I've been using KDE 4 since it was in alpha state and had never had the problem until I upgraded to 4.2. Here is a description of the problem that I am having. It sounds like the same bug but with a different context: My sound works fine all of the time. The problem occurs when I try to access the sound device directly with another application. In my case this is Jack. Jack cannot start if I don't have knotify4 disabled (system notifications, etc...) when I log in. It locks the device. This behavior did not occur all the way from alpha => 4.1 Hopefully they get it fixed (if it truly is a bug...I haven't checked around anywhere), as I have been very happy with KDE 4 aside from small bugs and complaints. Even this issue isn't that major...more like a small annoyance (I use Ardour2 for recording...which interfaces with Jack, but I only use it once a week or so). --Erick From namonai at gmail.com Thu May 21 21:09:25 2009 From: namonai at gmail.com (Craig Kelley) Date: Thu May 21 21:09:34 2009 Subject: variables in iptables WAS Re: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG May 13 Today 11:30am -- Cancelled In-Reply-To: <200905211737.57959.richard-lists@esplins.org> References: <4A15DC86.7090606@ridgecrestherbals.com> <200905211737.57959.richard-lists@esplins.org> Message-ID: <847993120905212009k5705d661ic497384c8be8ad08@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 5:37 PM, Richard Esplin wrote: > I use bash variables to do exactly that. As do I; Here's a mangled example: http://inconnu.islug.org/~ink/example_firewall_rules Bash for-loops are very useful in firewall scripts. Also, the iptables log module is handy for debugging unintentional behavior. -- http://inconnu.islug.org/~ink finger ink@inconnu.islug.org for PGP block From beebe at math.utah.edu Fri May 22 09:51:09 2009 From: beebe at math.utah.edu (Nelson H. F. Beebe) Date: Fri May 22 09:51:21 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Wikipedia drops GNU [FDL] in favor of Creative Commons license Message-ID: This article on content licensing may be of interest to some list readers; it appears in ComputerWorld Online today: Wikipedia drops GNU in favor of Creative Commons license http://cwflyris.computerworld.com/t/5088779/419952/192705/0/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - University of Utah FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@acm.org beebe@computer.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Fri May 22 15:34:03 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Fri May 22 15:34:20 2009 Subject: variables in iptables WAS Re: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG May 13 Today 11:30am -- Cancelled In-Reply-To: <200905211737.57959.richard-lists@esplins.org> References: <4A15DC86.7090606@ridgecrestherbals.com> <200905211737.57959.richard-lists@esplins.org> Message-ID: <4A171A4B.7010809@ridgecrestherbals.com> Richard Esplin wrote: > I use bash variables to do exactly that. That's why I love this list. There's always more than one way to skin the cat, and someone always knows a better way. I was fixated on the -f option and how to read the file, when a bash script does it just fine. Is the delay in calling iptables many times noticeable during boot? I think I have about a hundred rows in my table. Or would it be better to use the bash or perl here document syntax to do all the shell interpolation at once and then pipe the altered output to one iptables call? I don't know how long iptables takes to initialize and parse its command line. If it has high startup overhead (like emacs) then it seems piping the input might be faster. What think you? -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Fri May 22 17:06:13 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Fri May 22 17:06:25 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Laptop with multiple homes (several related questions) Message-ID: <4A172FE5.2040900@ridgecrestherbals.com> Here are some issues I'm sure others have solved better than I. I have a laptop running Ubuntu 9.04 that has is connected to the Net in many different ways, depending on the day: 1) Wifi at home (most common) 2) gigabit at home (for high-volume transfers) 3) Wifi at work 4) gigabit at work 5) Verizon USB Aircard 6) Wifi roaming access point (at a hotel or university, usually) 7) Ethernet (10/100 base TX) wired guest access (a hotel, usually) The machine needs to be backed up and updated periodically, and it does some housekeeping with other machines sometimes. Exactly what I want to do may change based on bandwidth (wifi vs. gigabit are very different) and location (work and home use different master servers, etc). Several questions come up. First, how can I find out in a script which connection, location, and speed I am using? In both work and home, the same machines are visible whether I am on WIFI or gigabit (though I guess I could set different DHCP addresses for each interface, rather than just drawing from the pool). Other places assign random DHCP addresses that may or may not be consistent or routable. ifconfig won't tell you which interfaces are really active, and sometimes, multiple interfaces may be connected, (though this sometimes seems to confuse Ubuntu). Second, is there a way to participate in or migrate regularly between two Samba workgroups (home and work) withut jumping through hoops? Or do you just give both the same workgroup name and hope for the best? Windows and Samba both seem to assume that a computer is a part of only one workgroup. Will migrating between two identically-named workgroups on different networks eventually confuse Samba? I seem to often have trouble seeing/browsing the (samba) networks, and I don't always know why. Internet works fine, and machines on the hardwire net see each other, I can ssh to the same machines, but browsing is broken. Third, the laptop holds things I am currently working on that are a small subset of one or more larger depositories. I would like to be able to use a tool like Unison to keep the files in sync with their masters in the home and work depositories, but I often can't fit the whole depository on the laptop. Just the most recent (or stuff I specifically flag) should be on the laptop. Any hot tips on managing something like this? I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem. Fourth, most inexpensive WIFI routers seem to assume that they will run their own DHCP server, NAT translation, and give out private IP. That's OK for internet access, but you can't browse the local LAN from that private subnet, so I try (often without success) to disable all that and fetch the IP from the Linux DHCP server. Many routers really don't want to do that, I so far I have only about a 50% success rate over 4 Wifi routers. Am I doing something wrong? Should I use a different topology somehow? I assume the Wifi will sit on the LAN and route IP traffic transparently to the LAN, while they seem to assume that the AP *IS* the lan, connected immediately to the gateway device (cable modem, they assume). I guess I want to view the router as a simple switch with an antenna, and they don't think I should. What am I missing? Finally, is there an easy way to configure a default printer (say, smb:\\server\lp or ipp://server/lp) so that standard postscript (if there is such a thing) can be piped to a default printer in each environment? I often hit "quick print" only to discover that I am in the wrong place to use my "default" printer, and have filled up the queue to a printer I can't reach. Or can Avahi and/or DHCP somehow discover, advertise and/or use a local printer that s configured correctly? DNS could easily configure a standard hostname alias and a standard service or protocol name would become the universal "default" for each environment. Does such a thing exist? Hope to benefit from someone's broader experience with these issues. Thanks in advance, and everyone have a great weekend! -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From mike.thomas.heath at gmail.com Fri May 22 17:44:52 2009 From: mike.thomas.heath at gmail.com (Michael Heath) Date: Fri May 22 17:45:15 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Laptop with multiple homes (several related questions) In-Reply-To: <4A172FE5.2040900@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <4A172FE5.2040900@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <2e84de770905221644n7c48dbfeg2f78d84514a1e2bb@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Matt Warnock wrote: > First, how can I find out in a script which connection, location, and speed > I am using? I'm assuming you're using NetworkManager to configure your netwrok? If so, there is an extensive API for DBUS that you can use to query information from NetworkManager about current network settings. I would investigate that; you could pull what interface you're using, the name of the WAP (if applicable), and your IP address from that, and then query other known devices on the network to narrow down if necessary. > Second, is there a way to participate in or migrate regularly between two > Samba workgroups (home and work) withut jumping through hoops? The only option I am aware of would be to manually change the setting (or change it via script) in your smb.conf file and restart Samba. I guess I'm a bit confused about what you mean by migrating between the two - the way I've always used Samba, I mount a share to read/write files as appropriate and when I'm done I umount - as long as you're only using one workgroup at a time, I don't see how there would be an issue switching between the two. > Third, the laptop holds things I am currently working on that are a small > subset of one or more larger depositories. ?I would like to be able to use a > tool like Unison to keep the files in sync with their masters in the home > and work depositories, but I often can't fit the whole depository on the > laptop. Something like subversion would work like this. You put all of your work in a repository, and then tag your current project as current-project or something; then you can selectively sync just that content. > Fourth, most inexpensive WIFI routers seem to assume that they will run > their own DHCP server, NAT translation, and give out private IP. [snip] I've never really had a problem with this, though I could imagine routers being pickier than others. Does the physical location of things prevent you from just putting a wireless antenna on the Linux server? > Finally, is there an easy way to configure a default printer (say, > smb:\\server\lp or ipp://server/lp) so that standard postscript (if there is > such a thing) can be piped to a default printer in each environment? Avahi is supposed to be for exactly this type of thing, though I've never played with it and I'm unsure of its limitations on what it can autodetect. You'd likely need to add a script to set the discovered printer as default, even if Avahi autodetects it. Why not a simple script that, after network manager starts up and connects you, queries a (manually created) list of printers that you print to regularly to see which ones are available locally? -- Michael Heath From namonai at gmail.com Fri May 22 18:29:38 2009 From: namonai at gmail.com (Craig Kelley) Date: Fri May 22 18:29:42 2009 Subject: variables in iptables WAS Re: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG May 13 Today 11:30am -- Cancelled In-Reply-To: <4A171A4B.7010809@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <4A15DC86.7090606@ridgecrestherbals.com> <200905211737.57959.richard-lists@esplins.org> <4A171A4B.7010809@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <847993120905221729s5dc1c613x38b1e174320e4541@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Matt Warnock wrote: > Richard Esplin wrote: >> >> I use bash variables to do exactly that. > > That's why I love this list. ?There's always more than one way to skin the > cat, and someone always knows a better way. ?I was fixated on the -f option > and how to read the file, when a bash script does it just fine. > > Is the delay in calling iptables many times noticeable during boot? ?I think > I have about a hundred rows in my table. You'll never notice it. After the first time it runs, it's all in cache. > Or would it be better to use the bash or perl here document syntax to do all > the shell interpolation at once and then pipe the altered output to one > iptables call? ?I don't know how long iptables takes to initialize and parse > its command line. ?If it has high startup overhead (like emacs) then it > seems piping the input might be faster. I'd go with Perl if you had a sophisticated rule set; something that went beyond bash "arrays" -- or if you wanted to store the firewall rules in a database or something. > What think you? That's the beauty of iptables and iproute2 -- you can do whatever you want. B-) I once had a gateway with three external interfaces, doing load balancing on two and source NAT'ing on the third (a network we were moving away from, but still had incoming packets on it). It gave our Cisco contractor a headache, but was a breeze with Linux. And I'm just a Java developer. :-) -- http://inconnu.islug.org/~ink finger ink@inconnu.islug.org for PGP block From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Fri May 22 18:46:59 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Fri May 22 18:47:07 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Laptop with multiple homes (several related questions) In-Reply-To: <2e84de770905221644n7c48dbfeg2f78d84514a1e2bb@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A172FE5.2040900@ridgecrestherbals.com> <2e84de770905221644n7c48dbfeg2f78d84514a1e2bb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A174783.2050600@ridgecrestherbals.com> Michael Heath wrote: > I'm assuming you're using NetworkManager to configure your netwrok? If > so, there is an extensive API for DBUS that you can use to query > information from NetworkManager about current network settings. I > would investigate that; you could pull what interface you're using, > the name of the WAP (if applicable), and your IP address from that, > and then query other known devices on the network to narrow down if > necessary. Correct. I use the NM applet, and I assumed there are daemons under the hood doing the work, but I didn't know what. Seems to bypass or overlie the ifconfig/route manual or DHCP configuration I am more familiar with. Automagic is good, but I don't know where NM keeps its data. Thanks for the pointer, I'll look at DBUS, which I don't really know at all. Was hoping for something higher-level than an API that I could easily script with, like /proc maybe, or a tool that would return the info easily. >> Second, is there a way to participate in or migrate regularly between two >> Samba workgroups (home and work) withut jumping through hoops? > > The only option I am aware of would be to manually change the setting > (or change it via script) in your smb.conf file and restart Samba. I > guess I'm a bit confused about what you mean by migrating between the > two - the way I've always used Samba, I mount a share to read/write > files as appropriate and when I'm done I umount - as long as you're > only using one workgroup at a time, I don't see how there would be an > issue switching between the two. I tend to browse the network from any open desktop (I usually have 6), find/open what I need (usually OpenOffice spreadsheets, web research in Firefox, and OO.o Word documents and email for 15-30 current projects, work on them all while fielding interruptions in a dozen directions, hopefully close when finished, and hope I don't leave too many documents (especially network documents) open on the desktop when I hibernate the laptop (to save where I was in all projects at once) and go home. Hence the need for a sync engine mentioned below. I know, lousy work habits, but my life is one interruption after another, and long hours. Mount/unmount rarely happens manually, though the context-aware scripts referred to above might do some of that kind of thing if appropriate, also the sync & printer things mentioned below. Perhaps it could open the currently relevant documents in appropriate windows as well, so I could shutdown cleanly, which would be better and faster than hibernating. I could suspend, but too often it fails to hibernate when the batteries run out... Suspend (or even clean boot) does load a lot faster than hibernate on my 1GB laptop. My concern was that I know Samba tracks master browsers, other hosts and such, and maybe it would get boggled if it woke from hibernation to find its master browser, WINS server, default printer, and other assorted crap had all instantly changed. >> Third, the laptop holds things I am currently working on that are a small >> subset of one or more larger depositories. I would like to be able to use a >> tool like Unison to keep the files in sync with their masters in the home >> and work depositories, but I often can't fit the whole depository on the >> laptop. > > Something like subversion would work like this. You put all of your > work in a repository, and then tag your current project as > current-project or something; then you can selectively sync just that > content. It's never one project, its 20-30 projects or more, with different files that may be a subset of much larger directories. Maybe I need to just keep a list of URLs (some files, some whole directories) on the desktop and sync to/from that. If would be nice to be able to say "files in //server/dir newer than YYYY-MM-DD" but I guess a script can do that, it just seems that Unison would rather take a list of files than be invoked 30 times with different commands. Guess I'll have to play with it some more, the discussion on bash scripting iptables gave me some ideas. I don't program for a living so subversion-type tools are a bit foreign to me. Maybe I need to look closer. >> Fourth, most inexpensive WIFI routers seem to assume that they will run >> their own DHCP server, NAT translation, and give out private IP. > [snip] > > I've never really had a problem with this, though I could imagine > routers being pickier than others. Does the physical location of > things prevent you from just putting a wireless antenna on the Linux > server? No, but I never really thought about that. Have never set up a Linux box as an AP or even a peer-to-peer. I assume you need a Wifi card and drivers, plus some config magic to tell it to advertise itself with a network name, a security protocol and key, and to forward all traffic from that device to the LAN? Any Wifi cards or USB dongles that are recommended for this? >> Finally, is there an easy way to configure a default printer (say, >> smb:\\server\lp or ipp://server/lp) so that standard postscript (if there is >> such a thing) can be piped to a default printer in each environment? > > Avahi is supposed to be for exactly this type of thing, though I've > never played with it and I'm unsure of its limitations on what it can > autodetect. You'd likely need to add a script to set the discovered > printer as default, even if Avahi autodetects it. Why not a simple > script that, after network manager starts up and connects you, queries > a (manually created) list of printers that you print to regularly to > see which ones are available locally? If there is a universal way to "query" a network printer (other than ping) I am not aware of it, but I don't know the CUPS or IPP protocols well. The object would be to modify the CUPS default printer, so that pressing the "quick print" button in OpenOffice would do the Right Thing. Avahi comes standard on most OS installs these days (even XP) but I have yet to see it see or identify anything (or understand how you would know if it did), so I don't know what it is really good for. Thanks for your info and tips. -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From u235sentinel at gmail.com Fri May 22 18:48:00 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Fri May 22 18:48:12 2009 Subject: variables in iptables WAS Re: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG May 13 Today 11:30am -- Cancelled In-Reply-To: <847993120905221729s5dc1c613x38b1e174320e4541@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A15DC86.7090606@ridgecrestherbals.com> <200905211737.57959.richard-lists@esplins.org> <4A171A4B.7010809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <847993120905221729s5dc1c613x38b1e174320e4541@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A1747C0.2070401@gmail.com> Craig Kelley wrote: > On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Matt Warnock > wrote: > >> Richard Esplin wrote: >> >>> I use bash variables to do exactly that. >>> >> That's why I love this list. There's always more than one way to skin the >> cat, and someone always knows a better way. I was fixated on the -f option >> and how to read the file, when a bash script does it just fine. >> >> Is the delay in calling iptables many times noticeable during boot? I think >> I have about a hundred rows in my table. >> > > You'll never notice it. After the first time it runs, it's all in cache. > > I'm curious if anyone's been successful with setting up QoS using tc in linux. I thought I had it running but running tc -s class show dev eth1 makes me think I screwed up somewhere. I believe the classes are defined properly however the above command should show me how much traffic each class has processed (is that correct?). So far I'm seeing 0 bytes sent with 0 packets. Argh!! Googling hasn't helped much. Most of what I see seems a little cryptic. From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Fri May 22 22:20:19 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Fri May 22 22:20:22 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Wikipedia drops GNU [FDL] in favor of Creative Commons license In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: is that bad? On 5/22/09, Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote: > This article on content licensing may be of interest to some > list readers; it appears in ComputerWorld Online today: > > Wikipedia drops GNU in favor of Creative Commons license > http://cwflyris.computerworld.com/t/5088779/419952/192705/0/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 > - > - University of Utah FAX: +1 801 581 4148 > - > - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu > - > - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@acm.org > beebe@computer.org - > - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: > http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ - > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Fri May 22 22:21:57 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Fri May 22 22:22:03 2009 Subject: variables in iptables WAS Re: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG May 13 Today 11:30am -- Cancelled In-Reply-To: <4A1747C0.2070401@gmail.com> References: <4A15DC86.7090606@ridgecrestherbals.com> <200905211737.57959.richard-lists@esplins.org> <4A171A4B.7010809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <847993120905221729s5dc1c613x38b1e174320e4541@mail.gmail.com> <4A1747C0.2070401@gmail.com> Message-ID: QoS? don't know anything by that name. On 5/22/09, u235sentinel wrote: > Craig Kelley wrote: >> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Matt Warnock >> wrote: >> >>> Richard Esplin wrote: >>> >>>> I use bash variables to do exactly that. >>>> >>> That's why I love this list. There's always more than one way to skin >>> the >>> cat, and someone always knows a better way. I was fixated on the -f >>> option >>> and how to read the file, when a bash script does it just fine. >>> >>> Is the delay in calling iptables many times noticeable during boot? I >>> think >>> I have about a hundred rows in my table. >>> >> >> You'll never notice it. After the first time it runs, it's all in cache. >> >> > I'm curious if anyone's been successful with setting up QoS using tc in > linux. I thought I had it running but running > > tc -s class show dev eth1 > > makes me think I screwed up somewhere. > > I believe the classes are defined properly however the above command > should show me how much traffic each class has processed (is that > correct?). So far I'm seeing 0 bytes sent with 0 packets. Argh!! > > Googling hasn't helped much. Most of what I see seems a little cryptic. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Fri May 22 22:33:18 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Fri May 22 22:33:26 2009 Subject: variables in iptables WAS Re: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG May 13 Today 11:30am -- Cancelled In-Reply-To: References: <4A15DC86.7090606@ridgecrestherbals.com> <200905211737.57959.richard-lists@esplins.org> <4A171A4B.7010809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <847993120905221729s5dc1c613x38b1e174320e4541@mail.gmail.com> <4A1747C0.2070401@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A177C8E.4040604@ridgecrestherbals.com> Quality of Service. Prioritize some packets (eg phone calls) higher than others (like ftp). I don't know much about it, but there's the short answer. Christian Horne wrote: > QoS? don't know anything by that name. -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From remo at italy1.com Fri May 22 22:37:10 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (Remo Mattei) Date: Fri May 22 22:37:23 2009 Subject: variables in iptables WAS Re: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG May 13 Today 11:30am -- Cancelled In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well I have done some interesting configuration with iptables. The remote office we are in we have vpn to connect to our internal network so since I did not want corp to show were we were browsing I have created rules based on IP that only those directed to the internal network will go through the vpn the others will go through the gateway we have with the T1. Just my 2 cents.. Ciao, Remo On 5/22/09 10:21 PM, "Christian Horne" wrote: > QoS? don't know anything by that name. > > On 5/22/09, u235sentinel wrote: >> Craig Kelley wrote: >>> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Matt Warnock >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Richard Esplin wrote: >>>> >>>>> I use bash variables to do exactly that. >>>>> >>>> That's why I love this list. There's always more than one way to skin >>>> the >>>> cat, and someone always knows a better way. I was fixated on the -f >>>> option >>>> and how to read the file, when a bash script does it just fine. >>>> >>>> Is the delay in calling iptables many times noticeable during boot? I >>>> think >>>> I have about a hundred rows in my table. >>>> >>> >>> You'll never notice it. After the first time it runs, it's all in cache. >>> >>> >> I'm curious if anyone's been successful with setting up QoS using tc in >> linux. I thought I had it running but running >> >> tc -s class show dev eth1 >> >> makes me think I screwed up somewhere. >> >> I believe the classes are defined properly however the above command >> should show me how much traffic each class has processed (is that >> correct?). So far I'm seeing 0 bytes sent with 0 packets. Argh!! >> >> Googling hasn't helped much. Most of what I see seems a little cryptic. >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> > From u235sentinel at gmail.com Sat May 23 07:57:28 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Sat May 23 07:57:34 2009 Subject: variables in iptables WAS Re: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG May 13 Today 11:30am -- Cancelled In-Reply-To: <4A177C8E.4040604@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <4A15DC86.7090606@ridgecrestherbals.com> <200905211737.57959.richard-lists@esplins.org> <4A171A4B.7010809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <847993120905221729s5dc1c613x38b1e174320e4541@mail.gmail.com> <4A1747C0.2070401@gmail.com> <4A177C8E.4040604@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <4A1800C8.5000604@gmail.com> Matt Warnock wrote: > Quality of Service. Prioritize some packets (eg phone calls) higher > than others (like ftp). I don't know much about it, but there's the > short answer. > > Christian Horne wrote: >> QoS? don't know anything by that name. I've been messing with the tc tool which allows quality of service control. I think I have most of it working but the piece where you bind to a class I've defined is not working. I'll keep working on it. Once I figure it out I'll post how I did it. It doesn't look that hard but I'm obviously not doing it correctly :-) From benko.kevin at gmail.com Sun May 24 11:08:32 2009 From: benko.kevin at gmail.com (Kevin Benko) Date: Sun May 24 11:08:56 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How the GPL is enforced - The H Open Source: News and Features Message-ID: <200905241108.46336.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090524/9a147000/attachment.pgp From kwalker at kobran.org Sun May 24 15:58:13 2009 From: kwalker at kobran.org (Knight Walker) Date: Sun May 24 15:58:25 2009 Subject: variables in iptables WAS Re: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG May 13 Today 11:30am -- Cancelled In-Reply-To: <4A1747C0.2070401@gmail.com> References: <4A15DC86.7090606@ridgecrestherbals.com> <200905211737.57959.richard-lists@esplins.org> <4A171A4B.7010809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <847993120905221729s5dc1c613x38b1e174320e4541@mail.gmail.com> <4A1747C0.2070401@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1243202293.9371.1088.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2009-05-22 at 18:48 -0600, u235sentinel wrote: > I'm curious if anyone's been successful with setting up QoS using tc in > linux. I thought I had it running but running > > tc -s class show dev eth1 > > makes me think I screwed up somewhere. Without seeing your actual setup, I can't say for sure. Do you have more than one rule? How long have these QoS rules been in place? > I believe the classes are defined properly however the above command > should show me how much traffic each class has processed (is that > correct?). So far I'm seeing 0 bytes sent with 0 packets. Argh!! You're right, it should. But like I said, you have to let them run for a while. > Googling hasn't helped much. Most of what I see seems a little cryptic. I got into QoS a while ago, when all I had was a piddly connection and I remoted into my systems a lot (I still do that, actually), and it took me quite a while to find what I was looking for. What I ended up finding was "The Ultimate Setup For Your Internet Connection At Home" Bash script which uses the HTB (Hierarchical Token Bucket) discipline and works quite well for me. The only problem I have is (being on Fedora) that I haven't figured out how to tie it into the eth1 startup routines, but then again, I haven't tried all that hard, as my connection doesn't reset very much. From rll123 at sbcglobal.net Mon May 25 19:18:35 2009 From: rll123 at sbcglobal.net (Robert Lewis) Date: Mon May 25 19:32:02 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: BBC video news not working Message-ID: <4A1B436B.90803@sbcglobal.net> I have been fighting my way through this for a few weeks. When I use Firefox -> Latest Headlines and choose a video from the BBC to view it spins but never completes. For example I see the video screen and the dots going around in a circle. Then it switches to the screen showing the first frame and in the middle a "CLICK TO PLAY" with the right play arrow. Click on that I see a circle of white dots going clockwise around and around and it continues forever without advancing to the actual video. I have this on a second SUSE 11.1 machine and it works. I have also tried it on Ubuntu Jaunty and the video works. I checked to see that the latest Adobe Flash Player 10.0.22.87 was on the machine and all the details of the players look identical on all machines. Has anyone seen this behavior and found a solution? I do see others are having issues with the BBC video but so far reading through the articles I didn't get any flashes of light that led me to a solution. Cheers, Bob From haas at xmission.com Mon May 25 20:00:34 2009 From: haas at xmission.com (Walt Haas) Date: Mon May 25 20:00:36 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: BBC video news not working In-Reply-To: <4A1B436B.90803@sbcglobal.net> References: <4A1B436B.90803@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <4A1B4D42.4070208@xmission.com> Isn't it Beeb policy not to serve video to Yanks? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/help/7277283.stm#rights Robert Lewis wrote: > I have been fighting my way through this for a few weeks. > When I use Firefox -> Latest Headlines and choose a video from the BBC > to view it spins but never completes. > > For example I see the video screen and the dots going around in a circle. > Then it switches to the screen showing the first frame and in the middle > a "CLICK TO PLAY" with the right play arrow. Click on that I see a > circle of white dots going clockwise around and around and it continues > forever without advancing to the actual video. > > I have this on a second SUSE 11.1 machine and it works. I have also > tried it on Ubuntu Jaunty and the video works. > > I checked to see that the latest Adobe Flash Player 10.0.22.87 > was on the machine and all the details of the players look identical > on all machines. > > Has anyone seen this behavior and found a solution? I do see > others are having issues with the BBC video but so far reading > through the articles I didn't get any flashes of light that led me to > a solution. > > Cheers, > Bob > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > From bob.l.lewis at gmail.com Mon May 25 20:48:06 2009 From: bob.l.lewis at gmail.com (Robert Lewis) Date: Mon May 25 20:48:22 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: BBC video news not working In-Reply-To: <4A1B4D42.4070208@xmission.com> References: <4A1B436B.90803@sbcglobal.net> <4A1B4D42.4070208@xmission.com> Message-ID: <86d2b63e0905251948v5c272f63tb755cc790e0396e@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 7:00 PM, Walt Haas wrote: > Isn't it Beeb policy not to serve video to Yanks? > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/help/7277283.stm#rights > > > > Robert Lewis wrote: > >> I have been fighting my way through this for a few weeks. >> When I use Firefox -> Latest Headlines and choose a video from the BBC >> to view it spins but never completes. >> >> For example I see the video screen and the dots going around in a circle. >> Then it switches to the screen showing the first frame and in the middle >> a "CLICK TO PLAY" with the right play arrow. Click on that I see a >> circle of white dots going clockwise around and around and it continues >> forever without advancing to the actual video. >> >> I have this on a second SUSE 11.1 machine and it works. I have also >> tried it on Ubuntu Jaunty and the video works. >> >> I checked to see that the latest Adobe Flash Player 10.0.22.87 >> was on the machine and all the details of the players look identical >> on all machines. >> >> Has anyone seen this behavior and found a solution? I do see >> others are having issues with the BBC video but so far reading >> through the articles I didn't get any flashes of light that led me to >> a solution. >> >> Cheers, >> Bob >> >> _____ > > Please re-read carefully my text. I have it working fine on two machines. Cheers, Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090525/18a56c80/attachment.html From u235sentinel at gmail.com Mon May 25 21:17:49 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Mon May 25 21:18:08 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: BBC video news not working In-Reply-To: <4A1B436B.90803@sbcglobal.net> References: <4A1B436B.90803@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <4A1B5F5D.3040701@gmail.com> Robert Lewis wrote: > I have been fighting my way through this for a few weeks. > When I use Firefox -> Latest Headlines and choose a video from the BBC > to view it spins but never completes. > > > What does it say when you visit this test site? http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/155/tn_15507.html Recently I struggled with my wife's computer as it seemed flash 10 has a problem with farmtown in facebook. Very annoying actually. When I accessed the game from my computer it gave me the correct information... sorta. I thought I had flash 10 linked but it was flash 9. So in messing up during installation I had it working. On her computer it said she was running Windows with flash 10. Huh?!?? So after a little digging I discovered I had messed up and had flash 9 in her home .mozilla/plugins directory but the /usr/lib/plugins was the real one she was using. And it was not happy with farmtown. Ripping everything out and installing flash 9 solved the problem. Flash 10 still is a headache. But If I was going to convince my wife to give up the evil's of Microsoft then farmtown it is :-) Something to look at. Perhaps even downgrading to flash 9 and see if that helps any. From bob.l.lewis at gmail.com Mon May 25 21:30:28 2009 From: bob.l.lewis at gmail.com (Robert Lewis) Date: Mon May 25 21:30:33 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: BBC video news not working In-Reply-To: <4A1B5F5D.3040701@gmail.com> References: <4A1B436B.90803@sbcglobal.net> <4A1B5F5D.3040701@gmail.com> Message-ID: <86d2b63e0905252030w4c27bdf4ie359fb591865399b@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 8:17 PM, u235sentinel wrote: > Robert Lewis wrote: > >> I have been fighting my way through this for a few weeks. >> When I use Firefox -> Latest Headlines and choose a video from the BBC >> to view it spins but never completes. >> >> >> >> > What does it say when you visit this test site? > > http://kb2.adobe.com/cps/155/tn_15507.html > > Recently I struggled with my wife's computer as it seemed flash 10 has a > problem with farmtown in facebook. Very annoying actually. When I accessed > the game from my computer it gave me the correct information... sorta. I > thought I had flash 10 linked but it was flash 9. So in messing up during > installation I had it working. On her computer it said she was running > Windows with flash 10. > > Huh?!?? > > So after a little digging I discovered I had messed up and had flash 9 in > her home .mozilla/plugins directory but the /usr/lib/plugins was the real > one she was using. And it was not happy with farmtown. Ripping everything > out and installing flash 9 solved the problem. Flash 10 still is a > headache. But If I was going to convince my wife to give up the evil's of > Microsoft then farmtown it is :-) > > Something to look at. Perhaps even downgrading to flash 9 and see if that > helps any. > ______ The above URL returns the same version of flash that is working for the my other two Linux machines. Namely: 10,0,22,87 which the site says is the latest. Weird that Adobe uses commas instead of . periods. Flash works on all the other sites but the BBC pull down news articles from Firefox. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090525/12dc8d98/attachment.htm From u235sentinel at gmail.com Mon May 25 22:07:07 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Mon May 25 22:07:22 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: BBC video news not working In-Reply-To: <86d2b63e0905252030w4c27bdf4ie359fb591865399b@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A1B436B.90803@sbcglobal.net> <4A1B5F5D.3040701@gmail.com> <86d2b63e0905252030w4c27bdf4ie359fb591865399b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A1B6AEB.70608@gmail.com> Robert Lewis wrote: > > So after a little digging I discovered I had messed up and had > flash 9 in her home .mozilla/plugins directory but the > /usr/lib/plugins was the real one she was using. And it was not > happy with farmtown. Ripping everything out and installing flash > 9 solved the problem. Flash 10 still is a headache. But If I was > going to convince my wife to give up the evil's of Microsoft then > farmtown it is :-) > > Something to look at. Perhaps even downgrading to flash 9 and see > if that helps any. > ______ > > > The above URL returns the same version of flash that is working for > the my other two Linux machines. Namely: 10,0,22,87 which the site > says is the latest. Weird that Adobe uses commas instead of . periods. > Flash works on all the other sites but the BBC pull down news articles > from Firefox. Hmmm.... Uhhhhh... Ok, I got nothing. Never mind :-) Yeah it is weird that they use commas. I don't understand that one either. You might want to try downgrading to flash 9. I'm pulling up a couple videos on BBC America and it's playing just fine. Just a thought. Here's where I went to play videos http://www.bbcamerica.com/videoplayer/player.jsp?ID=897 Some are pretty good From ewfalor at gmail.com Wed May 27 09:55:49 2009 From: ewfalor at gmail.com (Erik Falor) Date: Wed May 27 09:56:03 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Vim, the python IDE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090527155548.GR3369@gnu.prunk.si> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 01:50:37PM -0700, Christian Horne wrote: > anyone know a good vim tutorial? i know vim should come with one, but > mine didn't. A new Vim Cookbook was discussed on the vim.org mailing list last week: http://vim.runpaint.org/toc/ -- Erik Falor Registered Linux User #445632 http://counter.li.org From herlo1 at gmail.com Wed May 27 22:09:59 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Wed May 27 22:10:02 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Geek Lunch this Friday: May 29 @ 12:30pm Message-ID: Theme: Thai Greets all, This month?s UTOS Geek Lunch will be held in three locations at once. In other words, a new way of enjoying lunch with geeks in your area. We thought it?d be nice to hang out with everyone in one place, but it?s so hard to do during the lunch hour. Instead, the idea of having a Geek Lunch in each of the three main valleys along the Wasatch Front. This month?s theme: Thai Salt Lake County Fri, May 29, 12:30pm ? 2pm My Thai, 1425 S 300 W, SLC, UT (map - http://sn.im/hyon2) Davis/Weber County Fri, May 29, 12:30pm ? 2pm Pad Thai, 1986 N Hill Field Rd #8, Layton, UT (map - http://sn.im/pad-thai-layton) Utah County Fri, May 29, 12:30pm ? 2pm Thai Chili Gardens, 430 West 800 North, Orem, Ut (map - http://sn.im/thai-chili-gardens) If you have any questions, please contact Victor Villa (vvilla At gmail.com) for more information. You can also find this information available here: http://blog.utos.org/2009/05/22/event-utos-geek-lunch-may-29/ Cheers, Clint From blendmaster1024 at gmail.com Wed May 27 23:58:23 2009 From: blendmaster1024 at gmail.com (Christian Horne) Date: Wed May 27 23:58:34 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Geek Lunch this Friday: May 29 @ 12:30pm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: do you have to pay yourself, or is (for instance) UTOS paying? I was a bit confused by the formatting. I think this is what you meant (?) Salt Lake County Fri, May 29, 12:30pm ? 2pm My Thai, 1425 S 300 W, SLC, UT (map - http://sn.im/hyon2) Davis/Weber County Fri, May 29, 12:30pm ? 2pm Pad Thai, 1986 N Hill Field Rd #8, Layton, UT (map - http://sn.im/pad-thai-layton) Utah County Fri, May 29, 12:30pm ? 2pm Thai Chili Gardens, 430 West 800 North, Orem, Ut (map - http://sn.im/thai-chili-gardens) On 5/28/09, Clint Savage wrote: > Theme: Thai > > Greets all, > > This month?s UTOS Geek Lunch will be held in three locations at once. > In other words, a new way of enjoying lunch with geeks in your area. > We thought it?d be nice to hang out with everyone in one place, but > it?s so hard to do during the lunch hour. Instead, the idea of having > a Geek Lunch in each of the three main valleys along the Wasatch > Front. > > This month?s theme: Thai > Salt Lake County > > Fri, May 29, 12:30pm ? 2pm > My Thai, 1425 S 300 W, SLC, UT (map - http://sn.im/hyon2) > Davis/Weber County > > Fri, May 29, 12:30pm ? 2pm > Pad Thai, 1986 N Hill Field Rd #8, Layton, UT (map - > http://sn.im/pad-thai-layton) > Utah County > > Fri, May 29, 12:30pm ? 2pm > Thai Chili Gardens, 430 West 800 North, Orem, Ut (map - > http://sn.im/thai-chili-gardens) > > If you have any questions, please contact Victor Villa (vvilla At > gmail.com) for more information. > > You can also find this information available here: > http://blog.utos.org/2009/05/22/event-utos-geek-lunch-may-29/ > > Cheers, > > Clint > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- the blendmaster From remo at italy1.com Thu May 28 10:06:29 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (Remo Mattei) Date: Thu May 28 10:06:43 2009 Subject: variables in iptables WAS Re: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG May 13 Today 11:30am -- Cancelled In-Reply-To: <4A171A4B.7010809@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: I created a firewall in one day with over 1000 lines of coding (iptables). And it was fine. Just my 2 cents. Remo On 5/22/09 3:34 PM, "Matt Warnock" wrote: > Richard Esplin wrote: >> I use bash variables to do exactly that. > That's why I love this list. There's always more than one way to skin > the cat, and someone always knows a better way. I was fixated on the -f > option and how to read the file, when a bash script does it just fine. > > Is the delay in calling iptables many times noticeable during boot? I > think I have about a hundred rows in my table. > > Or would it be better to use the bash or perl here document syntax to do > all the shell interpolation at once and then pipe the altered output to > one iptables call? I don't know how long iptables takes to initialize > and parse its command line. If it has high startup overhead (like > emacs) then it seems piping the input might be faster. > > What think you? From herlo1 at gmail.com Thu May 28 10:35:35 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Thu May 28 10:35:40 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Geek Lunch this Friday: May 29 @ 12:30pm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Christian Horne wrote: > do you have to pay yourself, or is (for instance) UTOS paying? > > > I was a bit confused by the formatting. I think this is what you meant (?) > As standard for all Geek lunches, it's pay for yourself. Unfortunately, UTOS can't afford lunch for everyone. If you are in SLC, it's My Thai, see the announcement on utos.org. Cheers, Clint From ryan at vucci.com Fri May 29 10:34:38 2009 From: ryan at vucci.com (Ryan Bonnett) Date: Fri May 29 10:35:10 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: VIP Pass to UVUG Pro Football Event Message-ID: Hi SLLUG members, Get your free VIP PASS to the UVUG (Utah Virtualization Users Group) event on May 30th at the McKay Events Center. We had about 75 people at our last event, and this time we're expecting even more. Enjoy free footballs, prizes, food, keynote on IT virtualization, and VIP tickets to the Utah Valley Thunder football game (professional indoor football). TO REGISTER, GO TO: http://www.vucci.com/uvug Date & Time: May 30th at 6 pm Where: McKay Events Center at UVU Event: Dinner, prizes, keynote on virtualization, and Thunder football game Registration: Fill out the form on http://www.vucci.com/uvug The event should be a lot of fun. Thanks, Ryan P.S. For more information about the UVUG, go to http://www.vucci.com/uvug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090529/0c59d414/attachment.html From remo at italy1.com Fri May 29 17:37:45 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (Remo Mattei) Date: Fri May 29 17:37:52 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Job opening Message-ID: Senior Linux/Unix Developer/Test Engineer ? Contract ? Orem, UT Summary: Installs and configures clusters of Linux based application and database servers. Drafts and executes test plans of Linux related software on clusters. Experience with Linux application cluster design, administration and tuning (including san) required. Experience with virtualization technologies required. Details: Strong software development skills in multi-tiered and distributed environments using iterative development process, including 5+ years of advanced programming experience * Application performance testing plan drafting and execution. * Experience with usage and customization of open source application performance test tools. * Multiple Programming Languages: C, C++, Perl, Python, Cold Fusion, JAVA * 4 year technical degree or higher at an accredited institution. * Linux Cluster and cluster storage design, configuration and tuning. * Linux Kernel customization and compilation * Databases: Mysql, Postgresql, Oracle * Multiple Operating Systems: Linux, FreeBSD, Windows, etc. * Experience with multiple virtualization technologies: Xen, VMWare, KVM, * Excellent analytical and problem solving skills; with the ability to analyze business processes and create application models utilizing project-management standards * Strong verbal and written communication skills and ability to work effectively both independently and as part of a cross functional team. * Telecom and/or internet domain knowledge and experience with solid experience with eBusiness processes and/or back-end applications Please contact Danielle at T 801.316.6835 or dhenry@teksystems.com Let me know Remo From allen.schultz at gmail.com Sat May 30 15:35:59 2009 From: allen.schultz at gmail.com (Allen Schultz) Date: Sat May 30 15:36:04 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Web of Trust? Message-ID: <3f34f8420905301435v6cd8dd99i793049fb3a93764d@mail.gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Does SLLUG have a GPG Web of Trust? If so, is anyone willing to do a keysigning? And what do you need done? Allen -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) - GPGshell v3.72 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJKIabIAAoJEMNyjCz1VlHgjW0IAKQTxgXqAxIezMzSWz96Ub/B 6S39vNI2jqCV8PyT78CW9cpE1XldGOuxoCBDXsXx/tTjzrlQJMRloao/j7z5HREt Tlasl6O4JS/BGTtUBJ+IyBdIARstIdcqrTkeff0/CXTBaFDig7IOY6RlNhmJStQE 2noE2oLi4ITi2cVtlpZbXw44Am1WI8azBh8/2vwNYURUi5JYacOgEY/G6gLpn3NE +zZkZop4W1xT4gWBCCVu0P8qw+GlDkYVSKswjULcPvpqFwmDDpWPvIgAey11RD5d vX/xRrkbQW2DMLyldruX22Z54yNwKuNZWflVU1hi4IGjjKAEiHaZZ2c4UV4mJWw= =9OMt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Allen Schultz pub 3072R/DAD4736B 2009-05-20 Key fingerprint = 16AD EFE1 D68F C8A8 B086 68CD 1A35 85C7 DAD4 736B uid Allen Schultz (aldaek) uid [jpeg image of size 6128] sub 2048R/F55651E0 2009-05-20 [expires: 2010-05-20] sub 2048R/5687B83E 2009-05-20 [expires: 2010-05-20] From cadec at linuxjunk.org Sat May 30 18:17:47 2009 From: cadec at linuxjunk.org (Cade Call) Date: Sat May 30 18:17:51 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: FS: Infrant/Netgear ReadyNAS NV+ Message-ID: <959080d60905301717r21cc985btd9572278e67ae473@mail.gmail.com> I thought I'd throw this up to SLLUG members first. I've got a Infrant ReadyNAS NV+ (pre-Netgear buyout) that I'm looking to sell. It's got another 3 years on it's warranty, gigabit ethernet. and takes 4 SATA drives (none included). It's a nice tiny little unit with low power consumption (for those green types), performance is good when used with a gigabit switch. It runs a custom Debian based Linux Distro and has a strong community following. The developers actively encourage the community to develop plugins for it. If anyone is interested please email me off list and we can discuss it. Thanks, Cade -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090530/bb80a92f/attachment.html