From lrp at xmission.com Fri Jan 2 09:25:06 2009 From: lrp at xmission.com (Lamont Peterson) Date: Fri Jan 2 08:50:54 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: firewall In-Reply-To: <2B2CEF0E4EE10B449E5D9BB95E6DA0E8096DA9@MAIL2.csw.l-3com.com> References: <2B2CEF0E4EE10B449E5D9BB95E6DA0E8096DA9@MAIL2.csw.l-3com.com> Message-ID: <200901020925.11610.lrp@xmission.com> On Monday 24 November 2008 02:56:19 pm mark.k.spute@l-3com.com wrote: > I'm looking for a firewall solution. I want something that I can run > from CD so that it cannot be hacked. If I screw up the settings that's > one thing, but I want to be sure that it can't be hacked. There's no such thing. What I mean by that is there is no such thing as being "secure" in the sense of "it cannot be hacked." Everything is hackable. The best we can do is manage risk. So, what you need to be thinking is: 1. How much risk is there that my network will be cracked? 2. How much value is there for someone to crack my network? What value could a cracker expect to get from cracking my network? (There are other forms of this question than one could consider.) 3. How much would it cost to crack my security (not necessarily monetary)? 4. What is the threshold of risk that I'm willing to tolerate? How much risk is too much for my network? 5. Am I under that threshold? For this one, it's important to answer it twice; the first time, use cold, hard math and the second should be the "feeling". 6. If my current risk factor isn't under my comfort threshold, how much would it cost (again, not necessarily just monetarily) to improve my security to the point where the threshold of risk is comfortable/acceptable? 7. Is that cost worth it? Are there other ways that don't cost me as much in order to lower the risk threshold? That series of questions can be applied both at the level of each individual security measure, and at the level of your security as a whole. > I'm running it on older Pentium III hardware. I will have 3 ethernet > interfaces: eth0 for connection to my DSL router; eth1 for connection > to my LAN, eth2 for connection to my DMZ and server. Nothing wrong with that. 1. Pentium III should be plenty more power than you need to run such a firewall. 2. 3 NICs, hang the DMZ "off the side" so that it's traffic and the LAN traffic never meet; very good choice. You can also allow certain connections to be initiated from the LAN->DMZ, but not DMZ->LAN with this type of setup without much complication. That is basically the same thing that I've been doing for 10 years on my home network and I've found it to be nice and simple to manage (easy to manage is a very important security principle). 3. CD-ROM or other non-writable boot media; not a bad thing to do. I don't do this, as my security needs (my comfort threshold) doesn't exceed the "cost" of doing this. For me, the two primary cost factors are time (mine, boot-up) and loss of flexibility (changing the config means at least one reboot with a new disc). I play around with my configs a lot, experimenting with firewall features, making incremental "tweak" improvements and so forth. For me, these "costs" aren't justified for the small amount of benefit that it would give me. Instead, I make sure that other "you're already broken into, now what?," security features, like SELinux, are configured and working. If one is going to go with a CD-ROM based "production" firewall, I would recommend installing something like monowall/smoothwall (or whichever one you want to use) on a hard drive in the box and using that while getting things put together. that way, you can tweak and tweak and tweak the config to your hearts content. Once you have it where you want it, switch over to the CD-ROM thing. [snip] Hmm. I think I'll put some of that into a blog post. :) -- Lamont Peterson [ http://www.xmission.com/~lrp/ ] GPG Key fingerprint: C51E DD83 B03F D147 A974 939C 5D13 289C 17F1 FFBE -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090102/13cf02e4/attachment.pgp From remo at italy1.com Fri Jan 2 10:21:23 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (Remo Mattei) Date: Fri Jan 2 09:47:11 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: 2U case (OT) Message-ID: Hello all, I have a brand new 2u case with powersupply in it. If anyone is interested let me know. Remo From matt at frozenatom.com Fri Jan 2 15:06:01 2009 From: matt at frozenatom.com (Matt Nelson) Date: Fri Jan 2 15:33:55 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: 2U case (OT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <148f6bb30901021406lec91113k262227661620c8e9@mail.gmail.com> Hi Remo, I might be interested, do you have a model or a picture of it? Also how much do you want for it? On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 10:21 AM, Remo Mattei wrote: > Hello all, I have a brand new 2u case with powersupply in it. If anyone is > interested let me know. > > Remo > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090102/1e8086c2/attachment.html From ray.sunderlin at us.army.mil Sat Jan 3 11:27:27 2009 From: ray.sunderlin at us.army.mil (Sunderlin, Layne R SGT RET) Date: Sat Jan 3 10:53:18 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: WRT54GS and X-Wrt ? In-Reply-To: <492B269F.5080800@xmission.com> Message-ID: <1EDCA228DD4E49BD92199F70B6246E48@EMFIVE> I'm currently running a WRT54GS, stock firmware, and I'm thinking about going 3rd party. I'm looking for comments on X-Wrt, cheers, jeers, and/or issues. I'm a Linux n00b so the description of the X-Wrt GUI appeals to me. Let the flam .er, comments flow. Ray ==================================================================== "Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find out it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." -T. E. Lawrence - Lawrence of Arabia- ==================================================================== From csum77 at gmail.com Sat Jan 3 12:15:40 2009 From: csum77 at gmail.com (csum77@gmail.com) Date: Sat Jan 3 13:19:53 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: WRT54GS and X-Wrt ? In-Reply-To: <1EDCA228DD4E49BD92199F70B6246E48@EMFIVE> References: <492B269F.5080800@xmission.com> <1EDCA228DD4E49BD92199F70B6246E48@EMFIVE> Message-ID: X-Wrt, as you're probably aware, is a web front end to OpenWRT. OpenWRT is pretty awesome in it's capability (especially over the stock firmware), but in my experience it's been a little quirky (especially the wireless). Not to poo poo it at all...I like the project. However, for more "simple" deployments I've found DD-WRT to be very solid. If you're looking for FOSS, DD-WRT doesn't exactly fall into that category, but I've enjoyed using it. OpenWRT is hackable...you can get in under the hood and do just about anything the unit's processing power can handle. DD-WRT is not as "hackable." IIRC it's closed source. But, I've had good luck using it, and I like it. You might also check out Tomato. If I recall it doesn't have as many bells & whistles as OpenWRT or DD-WRT, but it's simple & easy to use. I still lean toward DD-WRT, unless you want to hack away...then OpenWRT with X-Wrt would probably be a good choice... Just my experience though...YMMV -Charlie On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Sunderlin, Layne R SGT RET < ray.sunderlin@us.army.mil> wrote: > I'm currently running a WRT54GS, stock firmware, and I'm thinking about > going 3rd party. > I'm looking for comments on X-Wrt, cheers, jeers, and/or issues. > > I'm a Linux n00b so the description of the X-Wrt GUI appeals to me. > > Let the flam .er, comments flow. > > Ray > > ==================================================================== > "Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the > day to find out it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous, > for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." > -T. E. Lawrence - Lawrence of Arabia- > ==================================================================== > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090103/90cad825/attachment.htm From remo at italy1.com Sat Jan 3 15:57:38 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (Remo Mattei) Date: Sat Jan 3 15:24:35 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: WRT54GS and X-Wrt ? In-Reply-To: References: <492B269F.5080800@xmission.com> <1EDCA228DD4E49BD92199F70B6246E48@EMFIVE> Message-ID: <642B6C0E-EA15-42E0-BB4A-7A2917816CB3@italy1.com> Sorry to reply to this but will this work on wrt-350n (I think that is what I have on top of my head) thanks Remo Inviato da iPhone Il giorno 03/gen/09, alle ore 12:15, "csum77@gmail.com" ha scritto: > X-Wrt, as you're probably aware, is a web front end to OpenWRT. > OpenWRT is pretty awesome in it's capability (especially over the > stock firmware), but in my experience it's been a little quirky > (especially the wireless). > > Not to poo poo it at all...I like the project. However, for more > "simple" deployments I've found DD-WRT to be very solid. If you're > looking for FOSS, DD-WRT doesn't exactly fall into that category, > but I've enjoyed using it. > > OpenWRT is hackable...you can get in under the hood and do just > about anything the unit's processing power can handle. DD-WRT is not > as "hackable." IIRC it's closed source. But, I've had good luck > using it, and I like it. > > You might also check out Tomato. If I recall it doesn't have as many > bells & whistles as OpenWRT or DD-WRT, but it's simple & easy to use. > > I still lean toward DD-WRT, unless you want to hack away...then > OpenWRT with X-Wrt would probably be a good choice... > > Just my experience though...YMMV > > -Charlie > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Sunderlin, Layne R SGT RET > wrote: > I'm currently running a WRT54GS, stock firmware, and I'm thinking > about > going 3rd party. > I'm looking for comments on X-Wrt, cheers, jeers, and/or issues. > > I'm a Linux n00b so the description of the X-Wrt GUI appeals to me. > > Let the flam .er, comments flow. > > Ray > > ==================================================================== > "Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake > in the > day to find out it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are > dangerous, > for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." > -T. E. Lawrence - Lawrence of > Arabia- > ==================================================================== > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > !DSPAM:495fd137267161336712104! > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > !DSPAM:495fd137267161336712104! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090103/0f859287/attachment.html From acousticism at gmail.com Sun Jan 4 20:12:44 2009 From: acousticism at gmail.com (Jordan Jones) Date: Sun Jan 4 19:38:17 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Project Pensive Message-ID: <6a6436d10901041912t45823f3eq379698a222a2df92@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I am hoping that all of you very intelligent people wouldn't mind sparing a few minutes of your time to look over a open source project I have been sketching out for a couple months now. If any of you have used or currently use the Electric Sheep screen saver then you will be pretty familiar with what the project is about. After using Electric Sheep for some months I thought it would be great to customize the sheep that are created by manually combining them with music to be used on a mp3 player, car monitor, or home theater system. So I began doing research on what it would take to create a program that would organize and compile both types of media into one single movie file, such as an mpeg, to be burned on DVD or downloaded to my portable. I am not a programmer, but I try to keep up to date on tech world the best I can. So I began searching for tools that would work for this project. What I have found can be seen on the projects website at http://projectpensive.googlepages.com If you have any advice, comments, or input you would like to share, please use the comment section at the bottom of the website. Thanks again for taking time out of your busy schedules to look over this, it is very much appreciated. Cheers, Jordan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090104/9c0de31e/attachment.html From reilithion at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 03:18:36 2009 From: reilithion at gmail.com (Lucas Paul) Date: Mon Jan 5 02:44:10 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: WRT54GS and X-Wrt ? In-Reply-To: <642B6C0E-EA15-42E0-BB4A-7A2917816CB3@italy1.com> References: <492B269F.5080800@xmission.com> <1EDCA228DD4E49BD92199F70B6246E48@EMFIVE> <642B6C0E-EA15-42E0-BB4A-7A2917816CB3@italy1.com> Message-ID: Felt I should weigh in on this. I've had Tomato installed on my WRT54GL for a year or so now. It's worked faithfully with incredible uptime. I'm currently using it to connect my desktop (which does not have a wireless adapter) to my other router. Handy little trick. It's plenty featureful enough for most people. And then some. -- ????? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090105/6a35b186/attachment.htm From justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com Mon Jan 5 11:50:26 2009 From: justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com (Justin Brinkerhoff) Date: Mon Jan 5 11:15:58 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: WRT54GS and X-Wrt ? In-Reply-To: <642B6C0E-EA15-42E0-BB4A-7A2917816CB3@italy1.com> References: <492B269F.5080800@xmission.com> <1EDCA228DD4E49BD92199F70B6246E48@EMFIVE> <642B6C0E-EA15-42E0-BB4A-7A2917816CB3@italy1.com> Message-ID: <2f932a4a0901051050s7caba81ek8fb90ee5c6453c5d@mail.gmail.com> Not sure if anyone replied to this for you, but here is the openwrt compatiblity list: http://wiki.openwrt.org/CompleteTableOfHardware According to the list, it seems it should work. Thanks, Justin On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Remo Mattei wrote: > Sorry to reply to this but will this work on wrt-350n (I think that is what > I have on top of my head) thanks > Remo > > Inviato da iPhone > Il giorno 03/gen/09, alle ore 12:15, "csum77@gmail.com" > ha scritto: > > X-Wrt, as you're probably aware, is a web front end to OpenWRT. OpenWRT is > pretty awesome in it's capability (especially over the stock firmware), but > in my experience it's been a little quirky (especially the wireless). > Not to poo poo it at all...I like the project. However, for more "simple" > deployments I've found DD-WRT to be very solid. If you're looking for FOSS, > DD-WRT doesn't exactly fall into that category, but I've enjoyed using it. > OpenWRT is hackable...you can get in under the hood and do just about > anything the unit's processing power can handle. DD-WRT is not as > "hackable." IIRC it's closed source. But, I've had good luck using it, and I > like it. > You might also check out Tomato. If I recall it doesn't have as many bells & > whistles as OpenWRT or DD-WRT, but it's simple & easy to use. > I still lean toward DD-WRT, unless you want to hack away...then OpenWRT with > X-Wrt would probably be a good choice... > Just my experience though...YMMV > -Charlie > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Sunderlin, Layne R SGT RET > wrote: >> >> I'm currently running a WRT54GS, stock firmware, and I'm thinking about >> going 3rd party. >> I'm looking for comments on X-Wrt, cheers, jeers, and/or issues. >> >> I'm a Linux n00b so the description of the X-Wrt GUI appeals to me. >> >> Let the flam .er, comments flow. >> >> Ray >> >> ==================================================================== >> "Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the >> day to find out it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous, >> for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." >> -T. E. Lawrence - Lawrence of >> Arabia- >> ==================================================================== >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > !DSPAM:495fd137267161336712104! > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > !DSPAM:495fd137267161336712104! > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > From stevehildebrand757 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 6 10:45:45 2009 From: stevehildebrand757 at yahoo.com (Steve Hildebrand) Date: Tue Jan 6 10:11:25 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE4 question References: <200901051900.n05J03HO029421@sllug.org> Message-ID: <637342.75438.qm@web90403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I just upgraded to Kubuntu 8.10, despite my misgivings about the interface. Well, those misgivings were not entirely out of place. None of my Mozilla products picked up the windowing settings, but the title bar and widgets are correct. X-Chat failed to use the new settings either. I checked Amarok and Kate, both showed KDE version 3.5.10. I know it isn't 3.5.x, but I am not sure which v4 I have. I suspect it is 4.0.x, but regardless, I think the problems are largely due to the KDE version. Does anyone know of a relatively simple way to install 4.1.x? As a last resort, I can compile from source, but I would prefer not to waste an entire weekend messing around. I have a boatload of projects for the new year, and the first three aren't going to be 'fix KDE'. Oh, and for the wiseguys out there, I don't like GNOME, so I won't be switching to that. :) ________________________________ From: "sllug-members-request@sllug.org" To: sllug-members@sllug.org Sent: Monday, January 5, 2009 12:00:03 PM Subject: sllug-members Digest, Vol 53, Issue 4 Send sllug-members mailing list submissions to sllug-members@sllug.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to sllug-members-request@sllug.org You can reach the person managing the list at sllug-members-owner@sllug.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of sllug-members digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Project Pensive (Jordan Jones) 2. Re: WRT54GS and X-Wrt ? (Lucas Paul) 3. Re: WRT54GS and X-Wrt ? (Justin Brinkerhoff) If you have any advice, comments, or input you would like to share, please use the comment section at the bottom of the website. Thanks again for taking time out of your busy schedules to look over this, it is very much appreciated. Cheers, Jordan -----Inline Attachment Follows----- Felt I should weigh in on this. I've had Tomato installed on my WRT54GL for a year or so now. It's worked faithfully with incredible uptime. I'm currently using it to connect my desktop (which does not have a wireless adapter) to my other router. Handy little trick. It's plenty featureful enough for most people. And then some. -- 気をつけて Not sure if anyone replied to this for you, but here is the openwrt compatiblity list: http://wiki.openwrt.org/CompleteTableOfHardware According to the list, it seems it should work. Thanks, Justin On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Remo Mattei wrote: > Sorry to reply to this but will this work on wrt-350n (I think that is what > I have on top of my head) thanks > Remo > > Inviato da iPhone > Il giorno 03/gen/09, alle ore 12:15, "csum77@gmail.com" > ha scritto: > > X-Wrt, as you're probably aware, is a web front end to OpenWRT. OpenWRT is > pretty awesome in it's capability (especially over the stock firmware), but > in my experience it's been a little quirky (especially the wireless). > Not to poo poo it at all...I like the project. However, for more "simple" > deployments I've found DD-WRT to be very solid. If you're looking for FOSS, > DD-WRT doesn't exactly fall into that category, but I've enjoyed using it. > OpenWRT is hackable...you can get in under the hood and do just about > anything the unit's processing power can handle. DD-WRT is not as > "hackable." IIRC it's closed source. But, I've had good luck using it, and I > like it. > You might also check out Tomato. If I recall it doesn't have as many bells & > whistles as OpenWRT or DD-WRT, but it's simple & easy to use. > I still lean toward DD-WRT, unless you want to hack away...then OpenWRT with > X-Wrt would probably be a good choice... > Just my experience though...YMMV > -Charlie > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Sunderlin, Layne R SGT RET > wrote: >> >> I'm currently running a WRT54GS, stock firmware, and I'm thinking about >> going 3rd party. >> I'm looking for comments on X-Wrt, cheers, jeers, and/or issues. >> >> I'm a Linux n00b so the description of the X-Wrt GUI appeals to me. >> >> Let the flam .er, comments flow. >> >> Ray >> >> ==================================================================== >> "Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the >> day to find out it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous, >> for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible." >> -T. E. Lawrence - Lawrence of >> Arabia- >> ==================================================================== >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > !DSPAM:495fd137267161336712104! > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > !DSPAM:495fd137267161336712104! > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > ______________________________________________________________________ See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah sllug-members@sllug.org http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090106/bf82fef8/attachment.html From vi at dubbayou.com Tue Jan 6 10:51:10 2009 From: vi at dubbayou.com (vi@dubbayou.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 10:16:40 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE4 question In-Reply-To: <637342.75438.qm@web90403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200901051900.n05J03HO029421@sllug.org> <637342.75438.qm@web90403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200901061051.10636.vi@dubbayou.com> On Tuesday 06 January 2009 10:45:45 Steve Hildebrand wrote: > I just upgraded to Kubuntu 8.10, despite my misgivings about the interface. > Well, those misgivings were not entirely out of place. None of my Mozilla > products picked up the windowing settings, but the title bar and widgets > are correct. X-Chat failed to use the new settings either. I checked > Amarok and Kate, both showed KDE version 3.5.10. I know it isn't 3.5.x, > but I am not sure which v4 I have. I suspect it is 4.0.x, but regardless, > I think the problems are largely due to the KDE version. Does anyone know > of a relatively simple way to install 4.1.x? As a last resort, I can > compile from source, but I would prefer not to waste an entire weekend > messing around. I have a boatload of projects for the new year, and the > first three aren't going to be 'fix KDE'. > > Oh, and for the wiseguys out there, I don't like GNOME, so I won't be > switching to that. :) > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "sllug-members-request@sllug.org" > To: sllug-members@sllug.org > Sent: Monday, January 5, 2009 12:00:03 PM > Subject: sllug-members Digest, Vol 53, Issue 4 > > Send sllug-members mailing list submissions to > sllug-members@sllug.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > sllug-members-request@sllug.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > sllug-members-owner@sllug.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of sllug-members digest..." > Today's Topics: > > 1. Project Pensive (Jordan Jones) > 2. Re: WRT54GS and X-Wrt ? (Lucas Paul) > 3. Re: WRT54GS and X-Wrt ? (Justin Brinkerhoff) > > If you have any advice, comments, or input you would like to share, please > use the comment section at the bottom of the website. Thanks again for > taking time out of your busy schedules to look over this, it is very much > appreciated. > > Cheers, > Jordan > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > Felt I should weigh in on this. > > I've had Tomato installed on my WRT54GL for a year or so now. It's worked > faithfully with incredible uptime. I'm currently using it to connect my > desktop (which does not have a wireless adapter) to my other router. Handy > little trick. It's plenty featureful enough for most people. And then > some. From vi at dubbayou.com Tue Jan 6 10:57:51 2009 From: vi at dubbayou.com (vi@dubbayou.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 10:23:47 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE4 question In-Reply-To: <637342.75438.qm@web90403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200901051900.n05J03HO029421@sllug.org> <637342.75438.qm@web90403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200901061057.51405.vi@dubbayou.com> Apologies for the empty reply, sticky fingers on the mouse ;) On Tuesday 06 January 2009 10:45:45 Steve Hildebrand wrote: > I just upgraded to Kubuntu 8.10, despite my misgivings about the interface. > Well, those misgivings were not entirely out of place. None of my Mozilla > products picked up the windowing settings, but the title bar and widgets > are correct. X-Chat failed to use the new settings either. I checked > Amarok and Kate, both showed KDE version 3.5.10. I know it isn't 3.5.x, > but I am not sure which v4 I have. I suspect it is 4.0.x, but regardless, > I think the problems are largely due to the KDE version. Does anyone know > of a relatively simple way to install 4.1.x? I'm not quite sure what you are referring to with the Mozilla issues, but Amarok in Kubuntu 8.10 *is* using 3.5.10 because the KDE4 version was not released at the time 8.10 shipped. If you did an upgrade from 8.04, you'll probably need to remove any lingering 3.5.10 installation of KDE, perhaps running a "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get autoremove" might help. I ran the upgrade on my home system and it has been running fine, with the correct versions. Regards, Rick From jeffquiparle at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 11:07:55 2009 From: jeffquiparle at gmail.com (Jeff Shipley) Date: Tue Jan 6 10:33:29 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE4 question In-Reply-To: <200901061051.10636.vi@dubbayou.com> References: <200901051900.n05J03HO029421@sllug.org> <637342.75438.qm@web90403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200901061051.10636.vi@dubbayou.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:51 AM, wrote: > On Tuesday 06 January 2009 10:45:45 Steve Hildebrand wrote: >> I just upgraded to Kubuntu 8.10, despite my misgivings about the interface. >> Well, those misgivings were not entirely out of place. None of my Mozilla >> products picked up the windowing settings, but the title bar and widgets >> are correct. X-Chat failed to use the new settings either. I checked >> Amarok and Kate, both showed KDE version 3.5.10. I know it isn't 3.5.x, >> but I am not sure which v4 I have. I suspect it is 4.0.x, but regardless, >> I think the problems are largely due to the KDE version. Does anyone know >> of a relatively simple way to install 4.1.x? As a last resort, I can >> compile from source, but I would prefer not to waste an entire weekend >> messing around. I have a boatload of projects for the new year, and the >> first three aren't going to be 'fix KDE'. >> >> Oh, and for the wiseguys out there, I don't like GNOME, so I won't be >> switching to that. :) >> I don't think that that was a strong enough warning to the wiseguys out there :) You could always try enlightenment (e17) or xfce. Go to http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.1.3 for instructions on updating KDE to 4.1.3, or http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.2-beta-2 if you want to try out the beta of 4.2. From sllug at vpxp.com Tue Jan 6 13:32:16 2009 From: sllug at vpxp.com (Chris Brown) Date: Tue Jan 6 12:58:07 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE4 question In-Reply-To: References: <200901051900.n05J03HO029421@sllug.org> <637342.75438.qm@web90403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200901061051.10636.vi@dubbayou.com> Message-ID: <4963BFD0.2000300@vpxp.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090106/267b0656/attachment.htm From dbb at beatties.us Tue Jan 6 13:31:12 2009 From: dbb at beatties.us (Doug Beattie) Date: Tue Jan 6 13:18:28 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [usergroups@informit.com: Pearson Education User Group Program Newsletter -- January 2009] Message-ID: <20090106203112.GA21504@beatties.us> A newletter from Pearson Education who furnishes books for our give-a-ways. Doug -- -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "InformIT User Groups" Subject: Pearson Education User Group Program Newsletter -- January 2009 Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:56:22 -0500 Size: 38114 Url: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090106/8e888099/attachment-0001.mht From stevehildebrand757 at yahoo.com Tue Jan 6 14:34:56 2009 From: stevehildebrand757 at yahoo.com (Steve Hildebrand) Date: Tue Jan 6 14:00:39 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Re: KDE4 Issues References: <200901061900.n06J03DB019442@sllug.org> Message-ID: <174454.96393.qm@web90404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:51 AM, wrote: I don't think that that was a strong enough warning to the wiseguys out there :) You could always try enlightenment (e17) or xfce. Go to http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.1.3 for instructions on updating KDE to 4.1.3, or http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.2-beta-2 if you want to try out the beta of 4.2. Excellent! I will try that after work tonight. I don't think I am quite ready to try the beta, however, the 'stable' version is giving me enough fits as it stands. :) The question about Mozilla: The icons are not really Tango, as I have set for the rest of the desktop, the menu fonts are stubbornly not what I have set, and the scroll bars and arrow buttons refuse to update with Plastik. The titlebar and window control widgets are fine, but the internals aren't painting with the correct settings. Firefox was like that under 8.04 also, so I suspect it is a matter of Firefox not playing nice. ________________________________ You're absolutely right, the warning wasn't strong enough. I switched to KDE in '99 and haven't looked back, well, uh, until now. I like what KDE's doing, but dropping kicker before the replacement is fully working has been trying. So for the next few release cycles I'm temporarily using Gnome. I don't think of it as "switching," just "patiently waiting." Chris Brown I was not jazzed about KDE4 tobegin with because of the Vista-like design on the kicker, but I changed that back easily enough, so no biggie there. I am still unimpressed with everything on my desktop being a widget of some kind, and what in the name of all that is holy is that K-Menu button supposed to be? Bizzare geometric shapes in GMOME browns and yellows. It's ugly all the way through. I will be devoting a bit of time fiddling with that widget to replace it with the standard blue K-Gear image. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090106/f0a7ad61/attachment.htm From thatch45 at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 14:37:08 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Tue Jan 6 14:02:47 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE4 question In-Reply-To: <4963BFD0.2000300@vpxp.com> References: <200901051900.n05J03HO029421@sllug.org> <637342.75438.qm@web90403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200901061051.10636.vi@dubbayou.com> <4963BFD0.2000300@vpxp.com> Message-ID: <6172c17e0901061337o598a7cf2t563398400b94766@mail.gmail.com> I am using KDE on ArchLinux, I have has problems with kubuntu and Fedora's KDE4 setups. The big thing with KDE 4 is that there is a massive migration of code to qt 4 and the KDE4 codebase, and that take some time. Just think of how long it was until we were only using gtk2! KDE has moved fast and some apps are not up to speed yet. I have been running the beta of kde4.2 for a while now without problems and I think this should be the promising release, the only KDE3 app left really is k3b, and the svn of k3b with KDE4 libs runs just fine (the developer is just kind of anal about "perfect" releases). All in all, KDE4 is a big undertaking and a major user migration, I for one love kde4 and the promise the new foundation brings is stunning, just be patient thats all, I keep fluxbox arround as a fallback for bad days! On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Chris Brown wrote: > You're absolutely right, the warning wasn't strong enough. > > I switched to KDE in '99 and haven't looked back, well, uh, until now. > > I like what KDE's doing, but dropping kicker before the replacement is > fully working has been trying. > > So for the next few release cycles I'm temporarily using Gnome. > > I don't think of it as "switching," just "patiently waiting." > > Chris Brown > > > Jeff Shipley wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 10:51 AM, wrote: > > > On Tuesday 06 January 2009 10:45:45 Steve Hildebrand wrote: > > > I just upgraded to Kubuntu 8.10, despite my misgivings about the interface. > Well, those misgivings were not entirely out of place. None of my Mozilla > products picked up the windowing settings, but the title bar and widgets > are correct. X-Chat failed to use the new settings either. I checked > Amarok and Kate, both showed KDE version 3.5.10. I know it isn't 3.5.x, > but I am not sure which v4 I have. I suspect it is 4.0.x, but regardless, > I think the problems are largely due to the KDE version. Does anyone know > of a relatively simple way to install 4.1.x? As a last resort, I can > compile from source, but I would prefer not to waste an entire weekend > messing around. I have a boatload of projects for the new year, and the > first three aren't going to be 'fix KDE'. > > Oh, and for the wiseguys out there, I don't like GNOME, so I won't be > switching to that. :) > > > > I don't think that that was a strong enough warning to the wiseguys out there :) > You could always try enlightenment (e17) or xfce. > > Go to http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.1.3 for instructions on > updating KDE to 4.1.3, or http://www.kubuntu.org/news/kde-4.2-beta-2 > if you want to try out the beta of 4.2. > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utahsllug-members@sllug.orghttp://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090106/d6399eeb/attachment.html From vi at dubbayou.com Tue Jan 6 16:30:26 2009 From: vi at dubbayou.com (vi@dubbayou.com) Date: Tue Jan 6 15:56:23 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Re: KDE4 Issues In-Reply-To: <174454.96393.qm@web90404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200901061900.n06J03DB019442@sllug.org> <174454.96393.qm@web90404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200901061630.26400.vi@dubbayou.com> On Tuesday 06 January 2009 14:34:56 Steve Hildebrand wrote: > > The question about Mozilla: The icons are not really Tango, as I have set > for the rest of the desktop, the menu fonts are stubbornly not what I have > set, and the scroll bars and arrow buttons refuse to update with Plastik. > The titlebar and window control widgets are fine, but the internals aren't > painting with the correct settings. Firefox was like that under 8.04 also, > so I suspect it is a matter of Firefox not playing nice. > Ah, I see. I ended up disabling the widget integration for non-KDE4 apps because it was problematic. Regards, Rick From u235sentinel at gmail.com Tue Jan 6 17:41:56 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Tue Jan 6 17:07:30 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Re: KDE4 Issues In-Reply-To: <200901061630.26400.vi@dubbayou.com> References: <200901061900.n06J03DB019442@sllug.org> <174454.96393.qm@web90404.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <200901061630.26400.vi@dubbayou.com> Message-ID: <4963FA54.6050108@gmail.com> vi@dubbayou.com wrote: > Ah, I see. I ended up disabling the widget integration for non-KDE4 apps > because it was problematic. > > Regards, > Rick > Isn't that part of the charm of KDE4 though? The widgets are supposed to be their big new thing I thought? Also, I heard there are problems with the Nvidia drivers and KDE4 in general. The last stable release however should have resolved those issues. There's been a storm of chatter in their forums about it. Hopefully it's all sorted out by now From james at thelances.net Tue Jan 6 21:45:10 2009 From: james at thelances.net (James Lance) Date: Wed Jan 7 01:53:40 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Website designer Message-ID: <19CB20AA-9C90-47BE-82EB-6D06EB2D22B8@thelances.net> Sorry for the cross posting. I'm in need of a web designer for a short contract job. I have a layout and general feel for a site, but it was done primarily in tables and isn't as flexible as I'd like for it to be. I've been meaning to fix it for 6 months now, and still haven't had the time. I'd also like the design spruced up a bit with some graphics. So the first thing that I need is for some one to update our site. I'd also like to get a bit of data entry. We are going to need half a dozen pages or so (about, contact, history that sort of thing) we have the content so it shouldn't be a big deal. I'd like to get it done as soon as possible. If you are interested please send me an email off the list. -James Lance james@thelances.net From remo at italy1.com Wed Jan 7 07:36:41 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (Remo Mattei) Date: Wed Jan 7 07:03:33 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Website designer In-Reply-To: <19CB20AA-9C90-47BE-82EB-6D06EB2D22B8@thelances.net> References: <19CB20AA-9C90-47BE-82EB-6D06EB2D22B8@thelances.net> Message-ID: Contact me offline 8088649 Remo Inviato da iPhone Il giorno 06/gen/09, alle ore 21:45, James Lance ha scritto: > Sorry for the cross posting. > > I'm in need of a web designer for a short contract job. I have a > layout and general feel for a site, but it was done primarily in > tables and isn't as flexible as I'd like for it to be. I've been > meaning to fix it for 6 months now, and still haven't had the time. > > I'd also like the design spruced up a bit with some graphics. > > So the first thing that I need is for some one to update our site. > I'd also like to get a bit of data entry. We are going to need half > a dozen pages or so (about, contact, history that sort of thing) we > have the content so it shouldn't be a big deal. I'd like to get it > done as soon as possible. > > If you are interested please send me an email off the list. > > -James Lance > james@thelances.net > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > !DSPAM:496476dc60921482016773! > From thatch45 at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 16:24:36 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Fri Jan 9 15:50:18 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C Message-ID: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> I was wondering, there are so many users groups out there, and I am studying C. Is there a local group that focuses on C? -Thomas S Hatch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090109/eafc6f04/attachment.htm From justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 16:37:23 2009 From: justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com (Justin Brinkerhoff) Date: Fri Jan 9 16:02:54 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f932a4a0901091537p3b416b22sc7103a9d5f2561@mail.gmail.com> This should get you in the right direction. I know theres a Java, PHP, Ruby, and other users groups in SLC, its just a matter of finding them... ;) Thanks, Justin On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > I was wondering, there are so many users groups out there, and I am studying > C. Is there a local group that focuses on C? > > -Thomas S Hatch > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > From kd7nyq at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 16:46:10 2009 From: kd7nyq at gmail.com (Andrew Jackman) Date: Fri Jan 9 16:11:42 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <2f932a4a0901091537p3b416b22sc7103a9d5f2561@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0901091537p3b416b22sc7103a9d5f2561@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <79c119390901091546o2fa5f036gc5652255660407a0@mail.gmail.com> Report back on what you find! Andrew Jackman On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Justin Brinkerhoff wrote: > This should get you in the right direction. > > I know theres a Java, PHP, Ruby, and other users groups in SLC, its > just a matter of finding them... ;) > > Thanks, > > Justin > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Thomas S Hatch wrote: >> I was wondering, there are so many users groups out there, and I am studying >> C. Is there a local group that focuses on C? >> >> -Thomas S Hatch >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> >> > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 17:01:12 2009 From: justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com (Justin Brinkerhoff) Date: Fri Jan 9 16:26:44 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <2f932a4a0901091537p3b416b22sc7103a9d5f2561@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <2f932a4a0901091537p3b416b22sc7103a9d5f2561@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2f932a4a0901091601v6eda0da0vebb7efe731b6fc41@mail.gmail.com> Sorry, here is the URL I meant to include. http://info.borland.com/programs/usergroups/uglist.html On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Justin Brinkerhoff wrote: > This should get you in the right direction. > > I know theres a Java, PHP, Ruby, and other users groups in SLC, its > just a matter of finding them... ;) > > Thanks, > > Justin > > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Thomas S Hatch wrote: >> I was wondering, there are so many users groups out there, and I am studying >> C. Is there a local group that focuses on C? >> >> -Thomas S Hatch >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> >> > From sjansen at buscaluz.org Fri Jan 9 17:02:06 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Fri Jan 9 16:27:57 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 16:24 -0700, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > I was wondering, there are so many users groups out there, and I am > studying C. Is there a local group that focuses on C? Gone are the days when C was a language learned by every Tom, Dick & Harry. These days, C programmers are a hardy and independent lot. If you have any questions, go ahead and ask on either Plug or SLLUG. If I'm in the mood, I might respond. If not, I know there are a few other floating around that still enjoy a nice, warm cup of C. (C programmers are also a bit anachronistic. You can still find them hanging out on Usenet if we're not able to help.) -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 17:10:20 2009 From: justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com (Justin Brinkerhoff) Date: Fri Jan 9 16:35:51 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> LMAO We got nerd poetry going on now :P But yeah, if you have any questions learning C, shoot em' off to us. I remember learning C myself. Its easy to learn, you just got to the fundamentals down, then learn aspects as you go and write more apps. As you have the basics down to start like cin, cout, and the include headers, you should be off to a good start. Justin On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Stuart Jansen wrote: > On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 16:24 -0700, Thomas S Hatch wrote: >> I was wondering, there are so many users groups out there, and I am >> studying C. Is there a local group that focuses on C? > > Gone are the days when C was a language learned by every Tom, Dick & > Harry. These days, C programmers are a hardy and independent lot. > > If you have any questions, go ahead and ask on either Plug or SLLUG. If > I'm in the mood, I might respond. If not, I know there are a few other > floating around that still enjoy a nice, warm cup of C. > > (C programmers are also a bit anachronistic. You can still find them > hanging out on Usenet if we're not able to help.) > > -- > When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical > evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing > is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who > remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From kwalker at kobran.org Fri Jan 9 17:18:31 2009 From: kwalker at kobran.org (Knight Walker) Date: Fri Jan 9 16:44:04 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1231546711.3409.1.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 17:10 -0700, Justin Brinkerhoff wrote: > LMAO > > We got nerd poetry going on now :P > > But yeah, if you have any questions learning C, shoot em' off to us. I > remember learning C myself. Its easy to learn, you just got to the > fundamentals down, then learn aspects as you go and write more apps. > > As you have the basics down to start like cin, cout, and the include > headers, you should be off to a good start. Allow me to be pedantic for a second here, but cin and cout are C++ and should probably not be trotted out too quickly if the guy wants to learn C rather than dive straight into C++. -KW (Who pretty much had to teach himself C back in the Turbo C days) From sjansen at buscaluz.org Fri Jan 9 17:25:42 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Fri Jan 9 16:51:34 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1231547142.3484.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 17:10 -0700, Justin Brinkerhoff wrote: > LMAO > > We got nerd poetry going on now :P > > But yeah, if you have any questions learning C, shoot em' off to us. I > remember learning C myself. Its easy to learn, you just got to the > fundamentals down, then learn aspects as you go and write more apps. > > As you have the basics down to start like cin, cout, and the include > headers, you should be off to a good start. Heresy! Don't listen to this man, he is preaching a dangerous lie! There is no cin or cout in pure and beautiful C. He is treating C and C++ as the same language--a dangerous and ugly sin. Justin, as your punishment, you must say one hundred "Hail Kernighan and Ritchie's" and promise to program with -std=c89 for a month. -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From sjansen at buscaluz.org Fri Jan 9 17:41:23 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Fri Jan 9 17:07:15 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: C Tips Message-ID: <1231548083.3484.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Experience has shown that while C is simple, it is not always strict enough by default. As a result, eventually you will either learn what to avoid and build a good chest of tools to help you write high quality code, or else you will decide C is insane and give up. Here's a few things to help you get started: http://blogs.gnome.org/otte/2008/12/22/warning-options/ http://www.splint.org/ gcov & gprof http://check.sourceforge.net/ http://valgrind.org/ & http://alleyoop.sourceforge.net/ -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From thatch45 at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 17:53:21 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Fri Jan 9 17:18:54 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <1231547142.3484.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> <1231547142.3484.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <6172c17e0901091653m7aa20c28h146e0ec6df356318@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Stuart, and everyone else. I thought cin and cout were C++. I don't want C++, I want C! I will have a great deal of questions I am sure, I have made a few small apps. I want to get to the point where I can write some basic kernel drivers so I have a long trek ahaed. On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Stuart Jansen wrote: > On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 17:10 -0700, Justin Brinkerhoff wrote: > > LMAO > > > > We got nerd poetry going on now :P > > > > But yeah, if you have any questions learning C, shoot em' off to us. I > > remember learning C myself. Its easy to learn, you just got to the > > fundamentals down, then learn aspects as you go and write more apps. > > > > As you have the basics down to start like cin, cout, and the include > > headers, you should be off to a good start. > > Heresy! Don't listen to this man, he is preaching a dangerous lie! There > is no cin or cout in pure and beautiful C. He is treating C and C++ as > the same language--a dangerous and ugly sin. > > Justin, as your punishment, you must say one hundred "Hail Kernighan and > Ritchie's" and promise to program with -std=c89 for a month. > > -- > When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical > evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing > is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who > remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090109/b3c82a80/attachment.html From namonai at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 19:08:10 2009 From: namonai at gmail.com (Craig Kelley) Date: Fri Jan 9 18:34:01 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <1231547142.3484.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> <1231547142.3484.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <847993120901091808u72d8addet63ef79435ab72734@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Stuart Jansen wrote: > Heresy! Don't listen to this man, he is preaching a dangerous lie! There > is no cin or cout in pure and beautiful C. He is treating C and C++ as > the same language--a dangerous and ugly sin. Because char* is soooo much better than a string object... ;-) A C programmer has to actually enjoy doing realloc() in order to add 1 character to the end of a "string". Oh and don't forget to free() the old string. Then you have to rush out the bugfix to cover up the exploit for the double free() that you inadvertently introduced because you had to put an error message into the output of strerrr from the non-thread-safe global errno. > Justin, as your punishment, you must say one hundred "Hail Kernighan and > Ritchie's" and promise to program with -std=c89 for a month. c99 is better, and it would be awesome if we could have a string primitive in C one day... I know, I know, I'm only dreaming. Fancy things like that only belong in languages that aren't macro assemblers with delusions of grandeur. Until then, declare all your variables at the beginning of a block, just like the good 1970's programmer that you are. :-D -Craig (The C programmer who also loves Java) -- http://inconnu.islug.org/~ink finger ink@inconnu.islug.org for PGP block From sjansen at buscaluz.org Fri Jan 9 21:39:48 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Fri Jan 9 21:05:42 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <847993120901091808u72d8addet63ef79435ab72734@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> <1231547142.3484.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <847993120901091808u72d8addet63ef79435ab72734@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1231562388.3479.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> The following is over the top, I know it. I know (hope?) you were joking. But your message touched a nerve. Even years later, the memory of my classmates confusing C++ with an easier version of C still ticks me off. On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 19:08 -0700, Craig Kelley wrote: > Because char* is soooo much better than a string object... ;-) A C > programmer has to actually enjoy doing realloc() in order to add 1 > character to the end of a "string". Oh and don't forget to free() the > old string. *shrug* At this point, any one who chooses C goes in with their eyes open. It's not like pointers are hidden from you, waiting to spring a trap. If we're going to turn this into a language war: All of C syntax can be learned in an afternoon. About 90% of what you'll use daily in C can be learned in a semester. C++ on the other hand... it's no exaggeration to say that no one fully understands C++. Its specification fills tomes. Quirky differences between C++ compilers make C's quirks look manageable, even sane. I could go on, but everyone already knows the dangers of operator overloading, the STL, etc. > Then you have to rush out the bugfix to cover up the exploit for the > double free() that you inadvertently introduced because you had to put > an error message into the output of strerrr from the non-thread-safe > global errno. And C++ manages memory for you? Come on, be honest. Managed strings aren't a big deal when you consider how much else you still have to manage by hand. As for realloc()'ing a byte at a time, no experienced C programmer would try it. Thank you for providing an example of how lazy, ignorant programmers that treat C++ as a simplified C are in for trouble as soon as they try to do anything more complicated than their CS homework. If you really think you can get off easier by using C++, you're kidding yourself. As for wonderful details like errno and gets()... think of them as the land mines in your front yard that keep life interesting. C++ is not simplified C. They are distinct languages with distinct advantages and disadvantages. > > Justin, as your punishment, you must say one hundred "Hail > > Kernighan and Ritchie's" and promise to program with -std=c89 for > > a month. > > c99 is better, and it would be awesome if we could have a string > primitive in C one day... I know, I know, I'm only dreaming. Fancy > things like that only belong in languages that aren't macro assemblers > with delusions of grandeur. It wouldn't be punishment if it were C99, now would it? Sadly, not all compilers have implemented C99 yet. If you want to be truly portable, C89 is your best hope. As for a string primitive, if that's what you want, go check out D. You've completely misunderstood the beauty of C. It's a simple, portable language. If you need higher level functionality, it's only a library away. Me, I like glib. Sure it's not perfect, but C is still the most reliable way to glue different languages, libraries and systems together. > Until then, declare all your variables at the beginning of a block, > just like the good 1970's programmer that you are. :-D > > -Craig (The C programmer who also loves Java) Ew, ick. K&R may be a good book, but it's an ugly coding style. /me has to go take a bath after even thinking about 1970's C -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From thatch45 at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 22:29:59 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Fri Jan 9 21:55:37 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <1231562388.3479.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> <1231547142.3484.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <847993120901091808u72d8addet63ef79435ab72734@mail.gmail.com> <1231562388.3479.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <6172c17e0901092129o21b6b867yea1185a473da902c@mail.gmail.com> Wow, I knew Stuart was passionate about C, but his rants never cease to amaze me. On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Stuart Jansen wrote: > The following is over the top, I know it. I know (hope?) you were > joking. But your message touched a nerve. Even years later, the memory > of my classmates confusing C++ with an easier version of C still ticks > me off. > > On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 19:08 -0700, Craig Kelley wrote: > > Because char* is soooo much better than a string object... ;-) A C > > programmer has to actually enjoy doing realloc() in order to add 1 > > character to the end of a "string". Oh and don't forget to free() the > > old string. > > *shrug* At this point, any one who chooses C goes in with their eyes > open. It's not like pointers are hidden from you, waiting to spring a > trap. > > If we're going to turn this into a language war: All of C syntax can be > learned in an afternoon. About 90% of what you'll use daily in C can be > learned in a semester. C++ on the other hand... it's no exaggeration to > say that no one fully understands C++. Its specification fills tomes. > Quirky differences between C++ compilers make C's quirks look > manageable, even sane. I could go on, but everyone already knows the > dangers of operator overloading, the STL, etc. > > > Then you have to rush out the bugfix to cover up the exploit for the > > double free() that you inadvertently introduced because you had to put > > an error message into the output of strerrr from the non-thread-safe > > global errno. > > And C++ manages memory for you? Come on, be honest. Managed strings > aren't a big deal when you consider how much else you still have to > manage by hand. As for realloc()'ing a byte at a time, no experienced C > programmer would try it. Thank you for providing an example of how lazy, > ignorant programmers that treat C++ as a simplified C are in for trouble > as soon as they try to do anything more complicated than their CS > homework. If you really think you can get off easier by using C++, > you're kidding yourself. > > As for wonderful details like errno and gets()... think of them as the > land mines in your front yard that keep life interesting. > > C++ is not simplified C. They are distinct languages with distinct > advantages and disadvantages. > > > > Justin, as your punishment, you must say one hundred "Hail > > > Kernighan and Ritchie's" and promise to program with -std=c89 for > > > a month. > > > > c99 is better, and it would be awesome if we could have a string > > primitive in C one day... I know, I know, I'm only dreaming. Fancy > > things like that only belong in languages that aren't macro assemblers > > with delusions of grandeur. > > It wouldn't be punishment if it were C99, now would it? > > Sadly, not all compilers have implemented C99 yet. If you want to be > truly portable, C89 is your best hope. > > As for a string primitive, if that's what you want, go check out D. > You've completely misunderstood the beauty of C. It's a simple, portable > language. If you need higher level functionality, it's only a library > away. Me, I like glib. > > Sure it's not perfect, but C is still the most reliable way to glue > different languages, libraries and systems together. > > > Until then, declare all your variables at the beginning of a block, > > just like the good 1970's programmer that you are. :-D > > > > -Craig (The C programmer who also loves Java) > > Ew, ick. K&R may be a good book, but it's an ugly coding style. > > /me has to go take a bath after even thinking about 1970's C > > -- > When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical > evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing > is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who > remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090109/80c106c4/attachment.htm From jeffquiparle at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 22:37:48 2009 From: jeffquiparle at gmail.com (Jeff Shipley) Date: Fri Jan 9 22:03:20 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <1231562388.3479.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> <1231547142.3484.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <847993120901091808u72d8addet63ef79435ab72734@mail.gmail.com> <1231562388.3479.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: I cut my teeth on C++, but I've pretty much always liked the C way of doing things better. In my opinion, printf and scanf seemed a lot nicer, more powerful, and more easy to control. The C string libraries were pretty nice, and the C++ string libraries didn't really add much. Honestly, compared to Python, Perl, Java, C#, or pretty much any other language, C++ string libraries are pretty much useless. One example, you never have to know that you're not supposed to call a virtual class function from a class constructor. -- Jeff On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Stuart Jansen wrote: > The following is over the top, I know it. I know (hope?) you were > joking. But your message touched a nerve. Even years later, the memory > of my classmates confusing C++ with an easier version of C still ticks > me off. > > On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 19:08 -0700, Craig Kelley wrote: >> Because char* is soooo much better than a string object... ;-) A C >> programmer has to actually enjoy doing realloc() in order to add 1 >> character to the end of a "string". Oh and don't forget to free() the >> old string. > > *shrug* At this point, any one who chooses C goes in with their eyes > open. It's not like pointers are hidden from you, waiting to spring a > trap. > > If we're going to turn this into a language war: All of C syntax can be > learned in an afternoon. About 90% of what you'll use daily in C can be > learned in a semester. C++ on the other hand... it's no exaggeration to > say that no one fully understands C++. Its specification fills tomes. > Quirky differences between C++ compilers make C's quirks look > manageable, even sane. I could go on, but everyone already knows the > dangers of operator overloading, the STL, etc. > >> Then you have to rush out the bugfix to cover up the exploit for the >> double free() that you inadvertently introduced because you had to put >> an error message into the output of strerrr from the non-thread-safe >> global errno. > > And C++ manages memory for you? Come on, be honest. Managed strings > aren't a big deal when you consider how much else you still have to > manage by hand. As for realloc()'ing a byte at a time, no experienced C > programmer would try it. Thank you for providing an example of how lazy, > ignorant programmers that treat C++ as a simplified C are in for trouble > as soon as they try to do anything more complicated than their CS > homework. If you really think you can get off easier by using C++, > you're kidding yourself. > > As for wonderful details like errno and gets()... think of them as the > land mines in your front yard that keep life interesting. > > C++ is not simplified C. They are distinct languages with distinct > advantages and disadvantages. > >> > Justin, as your punishment, you must say one hundred "Hail >> > Kernighan and Ritchie's" and promise to program with -std=c89 for >> > a month. >> >> c99 is better, and it would be awesome if we could have a string >> primitive in C one day... I know, I know, I'm only dreaming. Fancy >> things like that only belong in languages that aren't macro assemblers >> with delusions of grandeur. > > It wouldn't be punishment if it were C99, now would it? > > Sadly, not all compilers have implemented C99 yet. If you want to be > truly portable, C89 is your best hope. > > As for a string primitive, if that's what you want, go check out D. > You've completely misunderstood the beauty of C. It's a simple, portable > language. If you need higher level functionality, it's only a library > away. Me, I like glib. > > Sure it's not perfect, but C is still the most reliable way to glue > different languages, libraries and systems together. > >> Until then, declare all your variables at the beginning of a block, >> just like the good 1970's programmer that you are. :-D >> >> -Craig (The C programmer who also loves Java) > > Ew, ick. K&R may be a good book, but it's an ugly coding style. > > /me has to go take a bath after even thinking about 1970's C > > -- > When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical > evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing > is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who > remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From allen.schultz at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 22:59:50 2009 From: allen.schultz at gmail.com (Allen Schultz) Date: Fri Jan 9 22:24:43 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0901092129o21b6b867yea1185a473da902c@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> <1231547142.3484.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <847993120901091808u72d8addet63ef79435ab72734@mail.gmail.com> <1231562388.3479.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6172c17e0901092129o21b6b867yea1185a473da902c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49683956.1070809@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Thomas S Hatch wrote: > Wow, I knew Stuart was passionate about C, but his rants never > cease to amaze me. What's his rant for C over C++? In a nutshell, please. :) Allen -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkloOVYACgkQBii+WJwtK7avIQCffUQTm9HHpNhPBj9/D4w12poP Vq8An2Tbi40vPYBTC/zWoPecqqHPLq+I =CGMI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kd7nyq at gmail.com Fri Jan 9 23:06:47 2009 From: kd7nyq at gmail.com (Andrew Jackman) Date: Fri Jan 9 22:32:23 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <49683956.1070809@gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> <1231547142.3484.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <847993120901091808u72d8addet63ef79435ab72734@mail.gmail.com> <1231562388.3479.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6172c17e0901092129o21b6b867yea1185a473da902c@mail.gmail.com> <49683956.1070809@gmail.com> Message-ID: <79c119390901092206t24bed277s51339918de5ad068@mail.gmail.com> Would this be accurate? C++ is to CISC as C is to RISC. On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 10:59 PM, Allen Schultz wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Thomas S Hatch wrote: >> Wow, I knew Stuart was passionate about C, but his rants never >> cease to amaze me. > What's his rant for C over C++? In a nutshell, please. :) > > Allen > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAkloOVYACgkQBii+WJwtK7avIQCffUQTm9HHpNhPBj9/D4w12poP > Vq8An2Tbi40vPYBTC/zWoPecqqHPLq+I > =CGMI > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From fozz at xmission.com Fri Jan 9 23:38:44 2009 From: fozz at xmission.com (Doran L. Barton) Date: Fri Jan 9 23:04:28 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <79c119390901092206t24bed277s51339918de5ad068@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <49683956.1070809@gmail.com> <79c119390901092206t24bed277s51339918de5ad068@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200901092338.48860.fozz@xmission.com> On Friday 09 January 2009 23:06:47 Andrew Jackman wrote: > Would this be accurate? C++ is to CISC as C is to RISC. Eh... C feels closer to the hardware to me than C++. C++ always seemed like a hack of a language because, unlike Java, you could cheat and do things in a procedural fashion instead of OO. Java is C++ done right. That being said, I don't care much for Java. :) -- Doran L. Barton - Linux, Perl, Web, good fun, and more! "You could be a winner! No purchase necessary. Details inside." -- Seen on a bag of chips -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090109/a8723de8/attachment.pgp From roger at itigger.com Sat Jan 10 06:09:54 2009 From: roger at itigger.com (Roger Smith) Date: Sat Jan 10 05:36:06 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <200901092338.48860.fozz@xmission.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <79c119390901092206t24bed277s51339918de5ad068@mail.gmail.com> <200901092338.48860.fozz@xmission.com> Message-ID: <200901100709.54794.roger@itigger.com> On Saturday 10 January 2009 12:38:44 am Doran L. Barton wrote: > Java is C++ done right. Oh no you din't! Java is nothing done right! Java is an abomination. It may not be so much the syntax as it is the reality/implementation. C++ may not be as pretty as Java, but it is more useful. IMHO anything implemented in Java should be considered a hack and doesn't belong running on any system especially if you expect the system to remain stable. I don't care much for Java either. -- Roger smith C: 435-512-9919 From aaron.toponce at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 08:11:20 2009 From: aaron.toponce at gmail.com (Aaron Toponce) Date: Sat Jan 10 07:36:54 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <1231562388.3479.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> <1231547142.3484.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <847993120901091808u72d8addet63ef79435ab72734@mail.gmail.com> <1231562388.3479.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4968BA98.2050507@gmail.com> Stuart Jansen wrote: > The following is over the top, I know it. I know (hope?) you were > joking. But your message touched a nerve. Even years later, the memory > of my classmates confusing C++ with an easier version of C still ticks > me off. > > On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 19:08 -0700, Craig Kelley wrote: Wait!!! Hold the phone! Stuart just top posted an email! /me prints, archives and backs this up for future bribes. -- _ Aaron Toponce ( ) ASCII Ribbon Campaign www.aarontoponce.org X www.asciiribbon.org / \ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 552 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090110/9c290cdf/signature.pgp From sjansen at buscaluz.org Sat Jan 10 08:14:55 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Sat Jan 10 07:40:46 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <4968BA98.2050507@gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> <1231547142.3484.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <847993120901091808u72d8addet63ef79435ab72734@mail.gmail.com> <1231562388.3479.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4968BA98.2050507@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1231600495.3479.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2009-01-10 at 08:11 -0700, Aaron Toponce wrote: > Stuart Jansen wrote: > > The following is over the top, I know it. I know (hope?) you were > > joking. But your message touched a nerve. Even years later, the memory > > of my classmates confusing C++ with an easier version of C still ticks > > me off. > > > > On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 19:08 -0700, Craig Kelley wrote: > > Wait!!! Hold the phone! Stuart just top posted an email! > > /me prints, archives and backs this up for future bribes. No, I included an introduction. If yo dig through the Plug archives, you'll find where Hans Fugal's demonstrates its usefulness and I admit that it is appropriate in limited situations. So there. :-P -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From sjansen at buscaluz.org Sat Jan 10 08:21:59 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Sat Jan 10 07:47:49 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> <1231547142.3484.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <847993120901091808u72d8addet63ef79435ab72734@mail.gmail.com> <1231562388.3479.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1231600919.3479.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 22:37 -0700, Jeff Shipley wrote: > I cut my teeth on C++, but I've pretty much always liked the C way of > doing things better. In my opinion, printf and scanf seemed a lot > nicer, more powerful, and more easy to control. The C string libraries > were pretty nice, and the C++ string libraries didn't really add much. > Honestly, compared to Python, Perl, Java, C#, or pretty much any other > language, C++ string libraries are pretty much useless. I would argue that neither C nor C++ have great string support. Although at least C makes it obvious when you're about to do something painfully slow. Years ago, my first real job was writing CGIs in C. Take if from me, if you're going to do high level programming, especially if you're going to spend most of your time manipulating strings, use a high level language like Perl, Python, or Ruby. C is for low level programming, something few people do these days. -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From sjansen at buscaluz.org Sat Jan 10 08:23:47 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Sat Jan 10 07:49:38 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <49683956.1070809@gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> <1231547142.3484.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <847993120901091808u72d8addet63ef79435ab72734@mail.gmail.com> <1231562388.3479.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6172c17e0901092129o21b6b867yea1185a473da902c@mail.gmail.com> <49683956.1070809@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1231601027.3479.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2009-01-09 at 22:59 -0700, Allen Schultz wrote: > Thomas S Hatch wrote: > > Wow, I knew Stuart was passionate about C, but his rants never > > cease to amaze me. > What's his rant for C over C++? In a nutshell, please. :) I revealed the secrets of good health, immortality and limitless wealth. Unfortunately, such wisdom can not be condensed more that I already did. You'll just have to read the message yourself. -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From aaron.toponce at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 09:01:10 2009 From: aaron.toponce at gmail.com (Aaron Toponce) Date: Sat Jan 10 08:26:47 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4968C646.50903@gmail.com> Thomas S Hatch wrote: > I was wondering, there are so many users groups out there, and I am studying > C. Is there a local group that focuses on C? Going back to the original post, I have a suggestion for you Thomas, if you're interested. If you really want to learn a language, the only way you're really going to learn it, is if you have a project that you want to accomplish, and code the project in that language. At least that has been the case for me. I can read books all day long, follow tutorials on the web and join IRC channels. But, unless I have something to do with it, it will never sink in. With that said, may I make a recommendation? http://projecteuler.net. It is a site dedicated to math problems that are too complex, or would take too much time to do by hand. So, using a computer programming language would be more appropriate. Each solution should be executed on relatively modern hardware in under a minute. Further, after you solve a problem, then the forums for that problem become available, and you can see how others approached the problem, and learn from them. Project Euler is more than math. First, it teaches you to think logically, which is what every math teacher was trying to tell you in school. Second, if you utilize your language correctly, you'll cover a lot of ground in the language. In a nutshell, if you want to learn C, this is a good way to start. -- _ Aaron Toponce ( ) ASCII Ribbon Campaign www.aarontoponce.org X www.asciiribbon.org / \ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 552 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090110/41cba15f/signature-0001.pgp From ccjoegml at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 09:14:45 2009 From: ccjoegml at gmail.com (Joe George) Date: Sat Jan 10 08:40:16 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <4968C646.50903@gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <4968C646.50903@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7631e7570901100814pd85fc05m735fc28f17c9475@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Aaron Toponce wrote: > Thomas S Hatch wrote: >> I was wondering, there are so many users groups out there, and I am studying >> C. Is there a local group that focuses on C? > > Going back to the original post, I have a suggestion for you Thomas, if > you're interested. If you really want to learn a language, the only way > you're really going to learn it, is if you have a project that you want > to accomplish, and code the project in that language. At least that has > been the case for me. I can read books all day long, follow tutorials on > the web and join IRC channels. But, unless I have something to do with > it, it will never sink in. > > With that said, may I make a recommendation? http://projecteuler.net. It > is a site dedicated to math problems that are too complex, or would take > too much time to do by hand. So, using a computer programming language > would be more appropriate. Each solution should be executed on > relatively modern hardware in under a minute. Further, after you solve a > problem, then the forums for that problem become available, and you can > see how others approached the problem, and learn from them. > > Project Euler is more than math. First, it teaches you to think > logically, which is what every math teacher was trying to tell you in > school. Second, if you utilize your language correctly, you'll cover a > lot of ground in the language. In a nutshell, if you want to learn C, > this is a good way to start. > > -- > _ > Aaron Toponce ( ) ASCII Ribbon Campaign > www.aarontoponce.org X www.asciiribbon.org > / \ > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > Going back to his update of the original post he said: "I want to get to the point where I can write some basic kernel drivers so I have a long trek ahaed." So he should get K&R (THE C book) and Linux Device Drivers v3 and learn those 2 books. Joe From jeffquiparle at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 09:37:16 2009 From: jeffquiparle at gmail.com (Jeff Shipley) Date: Sat Jan 10 09:02:47 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <4968C646.50903@gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <4968C646.50903@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Aaron Toponce wrote: > Thomas S Hatch wrote: >> I was wondering, there are so many users groups out there, and I am studying >> C. Is there a local group that focuses on C? > > Going back to the original post, I have a suggestion for you Thomas, if > you're interested. If you really want to learn a language, the only way > you're really going to learn it, is if you have a project that you want > to accomplish, and code the project in that language. At least that has > been the case for me. I can read books all day long, follow tutorials on > the web and join IRC channels. But, unless I have something to do with > it, it will never sink in. > > With that said, may I make a recommendation? http://projecteuler.net. It > is a site dedicated to math problems that are too complex, or would take > too much time to do by hand. So, using a computer programming language > would be more appropriate. Each solution should be executed on > relatively modern hardware in under a minute. Further, after you solve a > problem, then the forums for that problem become available, and you can > see how others approached the problem, and learn from them. > > Project Euler is more than math. First, it teaches you to think > logically, which is what every math teacher was trying to tell you in > school. Second, if you utilize your language correctly, you'll cover a > lot of ground in the language. In a nutshell, if you want to learn C, > this is a good way to start. > > -- > _ > Aaron Toponce ( ) ASCII Ribbon Campaign > www.aarontoponce.org X www.asciiribbon.org > / \ > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > What's interesting to me is seeing how many people use assembly to solve the problems on project Euler. I've mostly used C when I worked on them. From thatch45 at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 10:00:36 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Sat Jan 10 09:26:09 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <7631e7570901100814pd85fc05m735fc28f17c9475@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <4968C646.50903@gmail.com> <7631e7570901100814pd85fc05m735fc28f17c9475@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6172c17e0901100900t34269f36hb37a382bb8ebb99c@mail.gmail.com> I have been usin C in a nutshell, Essential Linux Device Drivers, and Linux Device Drivers. I have written a few programs which generate mac addresses and do it in different ways, of course I only really started on thursday so I figure I am doing well. BTW thanks for everything so far, some of your rants have answered coding questions already! You guys are awesome! On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 9:14 AM, Joe George wrote: > On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Aaron Toponce > wrote: > > Thomas S Hatch wrote: > >> I was wondering, there are so many users groups out there, and I am > studying > >> C. Is there a local group that focuses on C? > > > > Going back to the original post, I have a suggestion for you Thomas, if > > you're interested. If you really want to learn a language, the only way > > you're really going to learn it, is if you have a project that you want > > to accomplish, and code the project in that language. At least that has > > been the case for me. I can read books all day long, follow tutorials on > > the web and join IRC channels. But, unless I have something to do with > > it, it will never sink in. > > > > With that said, may I make a recommendation? http://projecteuler.net. It > > is a site dedicated to math problems that are too complex, or would take > > too much time to do by hand. So, using a computer programming language > > would be more appropriate. Each solution should be executed on > > relatively modern hardware in under a minute. Further, after you solve a > > problem, then the forums for that problem become available, and you can > > see how others approached the problem, and learn from them. > > > > Project Euler is more than math. First, it teaches you to think > > logically, which is what every math teacher was trying to tell you in > > school. Second, if you utilize your language correctly, you'll cover a > > lot of ground in the language. In a nutshell, if you want to learn C, > > this is a good way to start. > > > > -- > > _ > > Aaron Toponce ( ) ASCII Ribbon Campaign > > www.aarontoponce.org X www.asciiribbon.org > > / \ > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > > > > > Going back to his update of the original post he said: > > "I want to get to the point where I can write some basic kernel > drivers so I have a long trek ahaed." > > So he should get K&R (THE C book) and Linux Device Drivers v3 and > learn those 2 books. > > Joe > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090110/3729b697/attachment.html From namonai at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 11:22:29 2009 From: namonai at gmail.com (Craig Kelley) Date: Sat Jan 10 10:48:08 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <7631e7570901100814pd85fc05m735fc28f17c9475@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <4968C646.50903@gmail.com> <7631e7570901100814pd85fc05m735fc28f17c9475@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <847993120901101022q5f3510b0q9a7f7669a312a2ad@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 9:14 AM, Joe George wrote: > Going back to his update of the original post he said: > > "I want to get to the point where I can write some basic kernel > drivers so I have a long trek ahaed." > > So he should get K&R (THE C book) and Linux Device Drivers v3 and > learn those 2 books. I agree. It's the C bible. C has been updated with some cool features over the years that aren't covered in that book, but most of those features cannot be used in kernel code anyway. I also learned a lot from this book when I wrote some kernel drivers: http://www.amazon.com/Linux-Device-Drivers-Jonathan-Corbet/dp/0596005903 It may seem intimidating to write kernel code, but it's not all that scary. -- http://inconnu.islug.org/~ink finger ink@inconnu.islug.org for PGP block From namonai at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 11:33:13 2009 From: namonai at gmail.com (Craig Kelley) Date: Sat Jan 10 10:58:50 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <1231562388.3479.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> <1231547142.3484.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <847993120901091808u72d8addet63ef79435ab72734@mail.gmail.com> <1231562388.3479.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <847993120901101033q43d4889el28904e7dc4159c43@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Stuart Jansen wrote: > If we're going to turn this into a language war: All of C syntax can be > learned in an afternoon. About 90% of what you'll use daily in C can be > learned in a semester. C++ on the other hand... it's no exaggeration to > say that no one fully understands C++. Its specification fills tomes. > Quirky differences between C++ compilers make C's quirks look > manageable, even sane. I could go on, but everyone already knows the > dangers of operator overloading, the STL, etc. I'm no fan of C++, particularly after playing around with a fairly large project written in it (gnash). It accommodates all styles of coding so that you end up with a mish-mash of everything under the sun. Some of the C++ standard templates are complete garbage, but the boost code is making it better (imho). One particularly annoying thing about C++ is that practically nobody uses exceptions -- you still have to "check the return code" for all sorts of garbage. > It wouldn't be punishment if it were C99, now would it? > > Sadly, not all compilers have implemented C99 yet. If you want to be > truly portable, C89 is your best hope. GCC does; I've done 3 small C projects over the past year and I used c99 in all of them. It's nice to be able to make an int local to a for{} loop. > As for a string primitive, if that's what you want, go check out D. > You've completely misunderstood the beauty of C. It's a simple, portable > language. If you need higher level functionality, it's only a library > away. Me, I like glib. Glib is nice. I do love C for certain things. I wrote a UDP multicast server/client in Java, and the contortions of going to/from byte[] arrays and proper primitive types was a pain -- things that are very easy to do in C. But for most applications, I choose something more high-level than C. Preferably something object-oriented with automatic garbage collection. -Craig -- http://inconnu.islug.org/~ink finger ink@inconnu.islug.org for PGP block From thatch45 at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 11:58:40 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Sat Jan 10 11:24:18 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <847993120901101033q43d4889el28904e7dc4159c43@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> <1231547142.3484.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <847993120901091808u72d8addet63ef79435ab72734@mail.gmail.com> <1231562388.3479.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <847993120901101033q43d4889el28904e7dc4159c43@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6172c17e0901101058p4c2cb03cw1521b4596bbac908@mail.gmail.com> gcc, like most c compilers, has support for some of the features in c99: http://gcc.gnu.org/c99status.html On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Craig Kelley wrote: > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Stuart Jansen > wrote: > > > If we're going to turn this into a language war: All of C syntax can be > > learned in an afternoon. About 90% of what you'll use daily in C can be > > learned in a semester. C++ on the other hand... it's no exaggeration to > > say that no one fully understands C++. Its specification fills tomes. > > Quirky differences between C++ compilers make C's quirks look > > manageable, even sane. I could go on, but everyone already knows the > > dangers of operator overloading, the STL, etc. > > I'm no fan of C++, particularly after playing around with a fairly > large project written in it (gnash). It accommodates all styles of > coding so that you end up with a mish-mash of everything under the > sun. Some of the C++ standard templates are complete garbage, but the > boost code is making it better (imho). One particularly annoying > thing about C++ is that practically nobody uses exceptions -- you > still have to "check the return code" for all sorts of garbage. > > > It wouldn't be punishment if it were C99, now would it? > > > > Sadly, not all compilers have implemented C99 yet. If you want to be > > truly portable, C89 is your best hope. > > GCC does; I've done 3 small C projects over the past year and I used > c99 in all of them. It's nice to be able to make an int local to a > for{} loop. > > > As for a string primitive, if that's what you want, go check out D. > > You've completely misunderstood the beauty of C. It's a simple, portable > > language. If you need higher level functionality, it's only a library > > away. Me, I like glib. > > Glib is nice. I do love C for certain things. I wrote a UDP > multicast server/client in Java, and the contortions of going to/from > byte[] arrays and proper primitive types was a pain -- things that are > very easy to do in C. But for most applications, I choose something > more high-level than C. Preferably something object-oriented with > automatic garbage collection. > > -Craig > > -- > http://inconnu.islug.org/~ink finger > ink@inconnu.islug.org for PGP block > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090110/a15874cc/attachment-0001.htm From kahn at xmission.com Sat Jan 10 14:09:23 2009 From: kahn at xmission.com (Jonathan W. Cannon) Date: Sat Jan 10 13:35:01 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <847993120901101033q43d4889el28904e7dc4159c43@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> <1231547142.3484.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <847993120901091808u72d8addet63ef79435ab72734@mail.gmail.com> <1231562388.3479.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <847993120901101033q43d4889el28904e7dc4159c43@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1231621763.6279.10.camel@slc34128843ulx> On Sat, 2009-01-10 at 11:33 -0700, Craig Kelley wrote: > On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 9:39 PM, Stuart Jansen wrote: > > > If we're going to turn this into a language war... Speaking of language wars ;-) First off, I want to thank you guys. This has been the most entertaining thread I've seen in since I stopped regularly reading usenet. This has been awesome. Now if I can throw on my troll suit for just a minute, I wanted to get this crowds opinion of C# as it doesn't seem to have gotten any air so far. Now, before you just toss me on my ear, I'm not talking about Visual Studio; though, I have to admit I spend a healthy portion of my professional life there; no, I'm talking about Mono. I started programming in C (well, shortly after basic and then Pascal) way back when (Doran, no telling how long I've been at this ;-). I've done a bit of C++ and some Java as well. Certainly, all of the above have their place; however, I've recently started playing with the Mono project. Sort of my way of learning C# without getting hooked on the Microsoft bells and whistles. I heard C# once described as where Java would have gone if Sun had continued development but regardless... What are your thoughts? Have you poked at it? Is it a viable alternative to Java? I'm not sure at this point how the VM compares in size to the JVM but at least the little bit I've done with it, it doesn't appear to be eating up the little boxes I've been playing with it on. From tripzero at nextabyte.com Sat Jan 10 14:37:37 2009 From: tripzero at nextabyte.com (Kevron Rees) Date: Sat Jan 10 14:03:10 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <1231621763.6279.10.camel@slc34128843ulx> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> <1231547142.3484.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <847993120901091808u72d8addet63ef79435ab72734@mail.gmail.com> <1231562388.3479.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <847993120901101033q43d4889el28904e7dc4159c43@mail.gmail.com> <1231621763.6279.10.camel@slc34128843ulx> Message-ID: <1231623457.1644.8.camel@kev-desktop> On Sat, 2009-01-10 at 14:09 -0700, Jonathan W. Cannon wrote: [snip] > I started programming in C (well, shortly after basic and then Pascal) > way back when (Doran, no telling how long I've been at this ;-). I've > done a bit of C++ and some Java as well. Certainly, all of the above > have their place; however, I've recently started playing with the Mono > project. Sort of my way of learning C# without getting hooked on the > Microsoft bells and whistles. I heard C# once described as where Java > would have gone if Sun had continued development but regardless... > > What are your thoughts? Have you poked at it? Is it a viable > alternative to Java? I'm not sure at this point how the VM compares in > size to the JVM but at least the little bit I've done with it, it > doesn't appear to be eating up the little boxes I've been playing with > it on. I actually like C# alot. It's very productive and the tools (monodevelop) are very nice and easy to use. While I still do most of my FOSS code in C++, I still play around with mono when I have something that fits well with it. For example DBus + mono is much easier and fun than c/c++. It's a shame that mono is frowned on by the majority of open source developers. From justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 14:53:35 2009 From: justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com (Justin Brinkerhoff) Date: Sat Jan 10 14:19:06 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <1231623457.1644.8.camel@kev-desktop> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <1231545726.3484.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <2f932a4a0901091610k30b9129cq3a8b0cda79332198@mail.gmail.com> <1231547142.3484.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <847993120901091808u72d8addet63ef79435ab72734@mail.gmail.com> <1231562388.3479.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <847993120901101033q43d4889el28904e7dc4159c43@mail.gmail.com> <1231621763.6279.10.camel@slc34128843ulx> <1231623457.1644.8.camel@kev-desktop> Message-ID: <2f932a4a0901101353g73bea44fs7e3dc6db55a46cfd@mail.gmail.com> I agree totally. I think the reason is because they haven't taken the time to use it, being it's native inclusion of .NET, but don't consider using mono because of plain naive ignorance. I have done some with mono, and continue to experiment with it. Anything purely .NET should die in my opinion, but when used an a more universal fashion I think its great. Its the implementation is what it boils down to... On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Kevron Rees wrote: > On Sat, 2009-01-10 at 14:09 -0700, Jonathan W. Cannon wrote: > [snip] >> I started programming in C (well, shortly after basic and then Pascal) >> way back when (Doran, no telling how long I've been at this ;-). I've >> done a bit of C++ and some Java as well. Certainly, all of the above >> have their place; however, I've recently started playing with the Mono >> project. Sort of my way of learning C# without getting hooked on the >> Microsoft bells and whistles. I heard C# once described as where Java >> would have gone if Sun had continued development but regardless... >> >> What are your thoughts? Have you poked at it? Is it a viable >> alternative to Java? I'm not sure at this point how the VM compares in >> size to the JVM but at least the little bit I've done with it, it >> doesn't appear to be eating up the little boxes I've been playing with >> it on. > > I actually like C# alot. It's very productive and the tools > (monodevelop) are very nice and easy to use. While I still do most of > my FOSS code in C++, I still play around with mono when I have something > that fits well with it. For example DBus + mono is much easier and fun > than c/c++. > > It's a shame that mono is frowned on by the majority of open source > developers. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From allen.schultz at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 14:57:32 2009 From: allen.schultz at gmail.com (Allen Schultz) Date: Sat Jan 10 14:22:53 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <200901100709.54794.roger@itigger.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <79c119390901092206t24bed277s51339918de5ad068@mail.gmail.com> <200901092338.48860.fozz@xmission.com> <200901100709.54794.roger@itigger.com> Message-ID: <496919CC.3050400@gmail.com> Roger Smith wrote: > On Saturday 10 January 2009 12:38:44 am Doran L. Barton wrote: > >> Java is C++ done right. >> > Oh no you din't! Now guys. I was asking an educated question. Let's not start a flame war. Now I know some would argue, but I think Microsoft has added some security features to how to use the code and the library functions themselves in both C++ and there baby C#. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 258 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090110/8dd55e88/signature.pgp From allen.schultz at gmail.com Sat Jan 10 15:05:31 2009 From: allen.schultz at gmail.com (Allen Schultz) Date: Sat Jan 10 14:30:39 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Programming in C In-Reply-To: <7631e7570901100814pd85fc05m735fc28f17c9475@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901091524u580b52efxade62b51fb339344@mail.gmail.com> <4968C646.50903@gmail.com> <7631e7570901100814pd85fc05m735fc28f17c9475@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49691BAB.7050504@gmail.com> Joe George wrote: > On Sat, Jan 10, 2009 at 9:01 AM, Aaron Toponce wrote: > Going back to his update of the original post he said: > > "I want to get to the point where I can write some basic kernel > drivers so I have a long trek ahaed." > > So he should get K&R (THE C book) and Linux Device Drivers v3 and > learn those 2 books. > If he hasn't already and is looking into the Linux kernel, there are two books that the Linux Programming community are recommending. Linux Kernel and more importantly, Understanding the Linux Kernel. It has information on kernel modules/drivers. Allen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 258 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090110/94da8732/signature.pgp From u235sentinel at gmail.com Sun Jan 11 10:49:40 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Sun Jan 11 10:15:12 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: 2U case (OT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <496A3134.8040307@gmail.com> Remo Mattei wrote: > Hello all, I have a brand new 2u case with powersupply in it. If anyone is > interested let me know. > > Remo > Since we're talking about hardware, I thought I'd put my 2 cents out here. I've purchased over the years a number of full size server rack enclosures and have been selling them this year as my career has changed. I have one left and thought I'd ask if anyone was interested. It's a Sun Microsystems 42U cabinet with side walls and locking doors. It's in good condition with no rust or dents. Overall in good condition. Contact me offline if interested. Thanks From sjansen at buscaluz.org Mon Jan 12 07:15:14 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Mon Jan 12 06:41:15 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: C is not a subset of C++ Message-ID: <1231769714.4780.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> It is a myth that C is a subset of C++. Unfortunately, you can't just compile all you C code with a "less picky" C++ compiler and get the same result as a real C compiler. I wanted to point this out earlier, but was too lazy to find an example to illustrate my point. This morning, Hacker News dropped one in my lap: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/browse_thread/thread/ab0f957e9dbf7c10?q=#14e2e3be8b1ef5be -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From stevehildebrand757 at yahoo.com Mon Jan 12 08:35:23 2009 From: stevehildebrand757 at yahoo.com (Steve Hildebrand) Date: Mon Jan 12 08:00:59 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE4 update References: <200901111900.n0BJ04aH024212@sllug.org> Message-ID: <243405.41715.qm@web90402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well, it looks like I will have to follow Mr Brown from an earlier response, and patiently wait for KDE to get their stuff together. I tried running the update as Mr Shipley posted, but one of the dependencies failed to install properly, which didn't seem like much of a problem at the beginning, so I dumped out after the remove also failed, went into GNOME and still couldn't get it to install correctly. One re-boot later, and kdm refused to start properly. So, I booted a live disc, transferred /home over to the backup drive, partitioned, and started over with Ubuntu 8.10. I'm still not jazzed about the difficulty in finding the controls I want, and there was a wierd issue where I had to advance the monitor resolution one step at a time. Going directly to 1280x1024 lost me about a third of the screen on the right side and bottom, but taking a side trip through 1154x840(?) and 1440x900 cleared things up. So a few oddities, and I know I promised I would never leave KDE, but I wasn't terribly happy with 4 to begin with. If they decide to do something innovative instead of following MS into the pits of mediocrity, I may try it again. ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090112/27ccb1f9/attachment.htm From dave at thesmithfam.org Mon Jan 12 16:43:29 2009 From: dave at thesmithfam.org (Dave Smith) Date: Mon Jan 12 16:09:09 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: C is not a subset of C++ In-Reply-To: <1231769714.4780.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1231769714.4780.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <496BD5A1.8010009@thesmithfam.org> Stuart Jansen wrote: > It is a myth that C is a subset of C++. Unfortunately, you can't just > compile all you C code with a "less picky" C++ compiler and get the same > result as a real C compiler. > > I wanted to point this out earlier, but was too lazy to find an example > to illustrate my point. This morning, Hacker News dropped one in my lap: > > http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/browse_thread/thread/ab0f957e9dbf7c10?q=#14e2e3be8b1ef5be C++ is an odd language indeed. If you're writing C++ without Qt, you are probably insane. If you bring boost along for the ride, doubly so. --Dave P.S. This was *mostly* tongue in cheek. From thatch45 at gmail.com Mon Jan 12 21:24:26 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Mon Jan 12 20:50:04 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: C is not a subset of C++ In-Reply-To: <496BD5A1.8010009@thesmithfam.org> References: <1231769714.4780.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <496BD5A1.8010009@thesmithfam.org> Message-ID: <6172c17e0901122024w239a4673od3feccd8ed9b54b4@mail.gmail.com> Heh, the only good thing I have ever consistently heard about C++ is QT. i have showed QT to a lot of my windows programmer buddies and they love it On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Dave Smith wrote: > Stuart Jansen wrote: > >> It is a myth that C is a subset of C++. Unfortunately, you can't just >> compile all you C code with a "less picky" C++ compiler and get the same >> result as a real C compiler. >> >> I wanted to point this out earlier, but was too lazy to find an example >> to illustrate my point. This morning, Hacker News dropped one in my lap: >> >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/browse_thread/thread/ab0f957e9dbf7c10?q=#14e2e3be8b1ef5be >> > > C++ is an odd language indeed. If you're writing C++ without Qt, you are > probably insane. If you bring boost along for the ride, doubly so. > > --Dave > > P.S. This was *mostly* tongue in cheek. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090112/50dbe0cc/attachment.html From clint at utos.org Mon Jan 12 22:19:50 2009 From: clint at utos.org (Clint Savage) Date: Mon Jan 12 21:45:27 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Fwd: SCaLE 7x Discounts to Local User Groups Message-ID: SCALE 7x, the premier Open Source Community conference in the southwestern United States, returns to the Westin LAX Hotel, site of the 6th Expo! For 2009, the main weekend conference at SCALE 7x has been expanded. In addition to the three main tracks, a Beginner's track and a Developer's track have been added. SCALE will be February 20th - 22nd, 2009. Mark your calendars! If you have not heard about SCaLE 7x, it's a great event and one that shouldn't be missed. Because of our relationship with SCaLE as premier community events, they have extended us the opportunity to invite UTOSC attendees, Local User Groups and select others the opportunity to attend SCaLE 7x at a 50% discount. If you are interested in this discount, feel free to hit the SCaLE 7x Registration page at https://socallinuxexpo.org/reg7/ and register with the discount code UTOS. This should make the registration a very inexpensive $30. We're looking forward to a great year of conferences in 2009 and SCaLE looks to do a great job setting the tone. Cheers, Clint Savage Utah Open Source Foundation From jeffquiparle at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 09:23:17 2009 From: jeffquiparle at gmail.com (Jeff Shipley) Date: Tue Jan 13 08:48:48 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: C is not a subset of C++ In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0901122024w239a4673od3feccd8ed9b54b4@mail.gmail.com> References: <1231769714.4780.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <496BD5A1.8010009@thesmithfam.org> <6172c17e0901122024w239a4673od3feccd8ed9b54b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Qt does have its downsides, but overall I have enjoyed working with it. They replace pretty much all of the standard libraries with their own, and imo do a much better job of it. Their api documentation is also just about the best I've seen. There are some quirks, and some issues, but overall I have a pretty good opinion of Qt. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 9:24 PM, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > Heh, the only good thing I have ever consistently heard about C++ is QT. i > have showed QT to a lot of my windows programmer buddies and they love it > > On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Dave Smith wrote: >> >> Stuart Jansen wrote: >>> >>> It is a myth that C is a subset of C++. Unfortunately, you can't just >>> compile all you C code with a "less picky" C++ compiler and get the same >>> result as a real C compiler. >>> >>> I wanted to point this out earlier, but was too lazy to find an example >>> to illustrate my point. This morning, Hacker News dropped one in my lap: >>> >>> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/browse_thread/thread/ab0f957e9dbf7c10?q=#14e2e3be8b1ef5be >> >> C++ is an odd language indeed. If you're writing C++ without Qt, you are >> probably insane. If you bring boost along for the ride, doubly so. >> >> --Dave >> >> P.S. This was *mostly* tongue in cheek. >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > From marc at sllug.org Tue Jan 13 09:03:58 2009 From: marc at sllug.org (Marc Christensen) Date: Tue Jan 13 08:50:06 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings Message-ID: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> Hey everyone, Just seeing where interest lies with regard to meeting topics for 2009. If there's something you're interested in or something you'd like to learn about, reply to this email and we'll see if we can get presenters lined up. BTW, we need a presenter for next week so if you have something you'd like to present on, feel free to send an email to comments@sllug.org. Thanks! -- Marc Christensen http://www.sllug.org From jake.pollmann at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 12:13:56 2009 From: jake.pollmann at gmail.com (Jake Pollmann) Date: Tue Jan 13 11:39:30 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Marc Christensen wrote: > If there's something you're interested in or something you'd like to > learn about, reply to this email and we'll see if we can get presenters > lined up. I'd like to see something on Puppet and/or Zenoss. JP From masterclc at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 18:59:55 2009 From: masterclc at gmail.com (Chad) Date: Tue Jan 13 18:25:25 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> Message-ID: <50d35b690901131759r121f6d8fh199f939ee1afb68a@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Marc Christensen wrote: > Hey everyone, > > Just seeing where interest lies with regard to meeting topics for 2009. > > If there's something you're interested in or something you'd like to > learn about, reply to this email and we'll see if we can get presenters > lined up. > > BTW, we need a presenter for next week so if you have something you'd > like to present on, feel free to send an email to comments@sllug.org. > > Thanks! > > -- As mobile seems to be getting bigger and bigger I'd like to see something on that. Maybe something about Openmoko, maemo, or similar? Also, I keep eyeballing Mr House and LinuxMCE, maybe something on whipping up a smart home Linux style would be cool. -Chad From ricardo.slacker at gmail.com Tue Jan 13 20:52:06 2009 From: ricardo.slacker at gmail.com (Ricardo) Date: Tue Jan 13 20:17:39 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <50d35b690901131759r121f6d8fh199f939ee1afb68a@mail.gmail.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <50d35b690901131759r121f6d8fh199f939ee1afb68a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <614c1080901131952s5ed8fd41hacfa1c166e90060f@mail.gmail.com> Speaking of mobile, I'd like to see something on Android. I'm also really interested in learning more about home automation stuff. If anyone is interested I could talk about firefox/extension development/xulrunner apps sometime (probably not this month). --Shane Hansen On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Chad wrote: > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Marc Christensen wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > > > Just seeing where interest lies with regard to meeting topics for 2009. > > > > If there's something you're interested in or something you'd like to > > learn about, reply to this email and we'll see if we can get presenters > > lined up. > > > > BTW, we need a presenter for next week so if you have something you'd > > like to present on, feel free to send an email to comments@sllug.org. > > > > Thanks! > > > > -- > > As mobile seems to be getting bigger and bigger I'd like to see > something on that. Maybe something about Openmoko, maemo, or similar? > Also, I keep eyeballing Mr House and LinuxMCE, maybe something on > whipping up a smart home Linux style would be cool. > > -Chad > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090113/4f17100e/attachment.htm From kwalker at kobran.org Tue Jan 13 23:18:18 2009 From: kwalker at kobran.org (Knight Walker) Date: Tue Jan 13 22:43:46 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <50d35b690901131759r121f6d8fh199f939ee1afb68a@mail.gmail.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <50d35b690901131759r121f6d8fh199f939ee1afb68a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1231913898.5922.9.camel@leviathan.kobran.org> On Tue, 2009-01-13 at 18:59 -0700, Chad wrote: > On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Marc Christensen wrote: > > Hey everyone, > > > > Just seeing where interest lies with regard to meeting topics for 2009. > > > > If there's something you're interested in or something you'd like to > > learn about, reply to this email and we'll see if we can get presenters > > lined up. > > > > BTW, we need a presenter for next week so if you have something you'd > > like to present on, feel free to send an email to comments@sllug.org. > > > > Thanks! > > > > -- > > As mobile seems to be getting bigger and bigger I'd like to see > something on that. Maybe something about Openmoko, maemo, or similar? > Also, I keep eyeballing Mr House and LinuxMCE, maybe something on > whipping up a smart home Linux style would be cool. Yeah. Get Control4 to give us an update. And maybe more about MythTV, like getting it to receive high-def TV and what kind of playback hardware is required for 1080p. From tripzero at nextabyte.com Wed Jan 14 01:12:14 2009 From: tripzero at nextabyte.com (Kevron Rees) Date: Wed Jan 14 00:37:50 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <1231913898.5922.9.camel@leviathan.kobran.org> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <50d35b690901131759r121f6d8fh199f939ee1afb68a@mail.gmail.com> <1231913898.5922.9.camel@leviathan.kobran.org> Message-ID: <1231920734.21226.279.camel@kev-desktop> > > As mobile seems to be getting bigger and bigger I'd like to see > > something on that. Maybe something about Openmoko, maemo, or similar? > > Also, I keep eyeballing Mr House and LinuxMCE, maybe something on > > whipping up a smart home Linux style would be cool. > > Yeah. Get Control4 to give us an update. And maybe more about MythTV, > like getting it to receive high-def TV and what kind of playback > hardware is required for 1080p. I realize that I have yet to attend a SLLUG meeting to date, but I'd be willing to talk about the OpenICE (in car entertainment/infotainment) initiative if anyone is interested. -Kev From bmidgley at xmission.com Wed Jan 14 13:51:38 2009 From: bmidgley at xmission.com (Brad Midgley) Date: Wed Jan 14 13:17:12 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> Message-ID: <496E505A.2010902@xmission.com> Marc I've got a new gumstix, their overo board. Together with its daughtercard, the result is similar to the beagleboard. These are great little single-board computers that include graphics output and can decode video in realtime. Does anyone in our group have a beagleboard? I can talk about this stuff, but the software needs more polishing, so it needs to wait a couple months. http://gumstix.com/ http://beagleboard.org/ Brad From tripzero at nextabyte.com Wed Jan 14 23:46:57 2009 From: tripzero at nextabyte.com (Kevron Rees) Date: Wed Jan 14 23:12:29 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <496E505A.2010902@xmission.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <496E505A.2010902@xmission.com> Message-ID: <1232002017.21226.281.camel@kev-desktop> On Wed, 2009-01-14 at 13:51 -0700, Brad Midgley wrote: > Marc > > I've got a new gumstix, their overo board. Together with its > daughtercard, the result is similar to the beagleboard. These are great > little single-board computers that include graphics output and can > decode video in realtime. > > Does anyone in our group have a beagleboard? > > I can talk about this stuff, but the software needs more polishing, so > it needs to wait a couple months. > > http://gumstix.com/ > http://beagleboard.org/ > > Brad That overo board looks awesome. I hope they come out with a LCD/Touchscreen daughter board for it, then they'd have me hooked. -Kev From kd7nyq at gmail.com Wed Jan 14 23:56:39 2009 From: kd7nyq at gmail.com (Andrew Jackman) Date: Wed Jan 14 23:22:07 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <1232002017.21226.281.camel@kev-desktop> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <496E505A.2010902@xmission.com> <1232002017.21226.281.camel@kev-desktop> Message-ID: <79c119390901142256p6d398489o13ae74dd19bc7165@mail.gmail.com> It's a bit selfish, but I'd go crazy for video recordings, streams, or podcasts. I work from 1600 to 2400 and still haven't made a meeting. I'd be willing to help supply a mic or two, but I don't have any video recording equipment. Andrew Jackman On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:46 PM, Kevron Rees wrote: > On Wed, 2009-01-14 at 13:51 -0700, Brad Midgley wrote: >> Marc >> >> I've got a new gumstix, their overo board. Together with its >> daughtercard, the result is similar to the beagleboard. These are great >> little single-board computers that include graphics output and can >> decode video in realtime. >> >> Does anyone in our group have a beagleboard? >> >> I can talk about this stuff, but the software needs more polishing, so >> it needs to wait a couple months. >> >> http://gumstix.com/ >> http://beagleboard.org/ >> >> Brad > > That overo board looks awesome. I hope they come out with a > LCD/Touchscreen daughter board for it, then they'd have me hooked. > > -Kev > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From eggyknap at gmail.com Thu Jan 15 08:30:54 2009 From: eggyknap at gmail.com (Joshua Tolley) Date: Thu Jan 15 07:56:35 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <79c119390901142256p6d398489o13ae74dd19bc7165@mail.gmail.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <496E505A.2010902@xmission.com> <1232002017.21226.281.camel@kev-desktop> <79c119390901142256p6d398489o13ae74dd19bc7165@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090115153051.GA7094@uber> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 11:56:39PM -0700, Andrew Jackman wrote: > It's a bit selfish, but I'd go crazy for video recordings, streams, or > podcasts. I work from 1600 to 2400 and still haven't made a meeting. > I'd be willing to help supply a mic or two, but I don't have any video > recording equipment. > > Andrew Jackman Because it looked like I'd be going to a fair number of user group meetings, UTOS provided me exactly that: a microphone, and credentials to access their infrastructure for stream broadcast and podcast dissemination. Unfortunately I have yet to be able to attend any meetings and put it to use, but those interested in making these recordings might contact Clint Savage to volunteer to record stuff. - Josh -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090115/d9f34290/attachment.pgp From dtwarnick at mmm.com Fri Jan 16 08:42:50 2009 From: dtwarnick at mmm.com (dtwarnick@mmm.com) Date: Fri Jan 16 08:09:00 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <1231913898.5922.9.camel@leviathan.kobran.org> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <50d35b690901131759r121f6d8fh199f939ee1afb68a@mail.gmail.com> <1231913898.5922.9.camel@leviathan.kobran.org> Message-ID: > > As mobile seems to be getting bigger and bigger I'd like to see > > something on that. Maybe something about Openmoko, maemo, or similar? > > Also, I keep eyeballing Mr House and LinuxMCE, maybe something on > > whipping up a smart home Linux style would be cool. > > Yeah. Get Control4 to give us an update. And maybe more about MythTV, > like getting it to receive high-def TV and what kind of playback > hardware is required for 1080p. I would love to hear some tips and tricks on getting a good HD (1080p) MythTV system up and running. Including info on how to play BD movies and get full, high quality audio. -Derek -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090116/6a3860fe/attachment.html From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Fri Jan 16 12:01:12 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Fri Jan 16 11:26:54 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <20090115153051.GA7094@uber> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <496E505A.2010902@xmission.com> <1232002017.21226.281.camel@kev-desktop> <79c119390901142256p6d398489o13ae74dd19bc7165@mail.gmail.com> <20090115153051.GA7094@uber> Message-ID: <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> Personally, I'd love to see something about how other people keep all the various data aspects of their lives in sync. Too many websites, too many accounts, too many directories, too many laptops, too many systems with different home directories, too many places that need backup, or whatever, etc. Maybe a whole session, or maybe a different somebody takes 5-10 minutes each session to talk about it. Just an idea. --Matt > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From fozz at xmission.com Fri Jan 16 12:17:06 2009 From: fozz at xmission.com (Doran L. Barton) Date: Fri Jan 16 11:42:53 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <20090115153051.GA7094@uber> <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <200901161217.07928.fozz@xmission.com> On Friday 16 January 2009 12:01:12 Matt Warnock wrote: > Personally, I'd love to see something about how other people keep all > the various data aspects of their lives in sync. Too many websites, too > many accounts, too many directories, too many laptops, too many systems > with different home directories, too many places that need backup, or > whatever, etc. Maybe a whole session, or maybe a different somebody > takes 5-10 minutes each session to talk about it. Just an idea. When I get my Palm Pre, I'll come to a SLLUG meeting and everyone can touch it. ;-) -- Doran L. Barton - Linux, Perl, Web, good fun, and more! "Is forbidden to steal hotel towels please. If you are not a person to do such a thing is please not to read notis." -- Seen in a Tokyo Hotel From fyyht at punchcutter.ml1.net Fri Jan 16 12:33:48 2009 From: fyyht at punchcutter.ml1.net (David J Iannucci) Date: Fri Jan 16 11:59:15 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org><496E505A.2010902@xmission.com> <1232002017.21226.281.camel@kev-desktop> <79c119390901142256p6d398489o13ae74dd19bc7165@mail.gmail.com><20090115153051.GA7094@uber> <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <1232134428.29050.1295195279@webmail.messagingengine.com> > Maybe a whole session, or maybe a different somebody takes 5-10 > minutes each session to talk about it. Just an idea. Lightning talks. Probably a good thing to have once in a while. Along the lines of your idea, I have a gpg-encrypted file that I keep on a usb stick containing all my accounts/passwords. I really only use it at home and work, where I have Linux systems under my own control, but it's very useful even for that. I'd be happy to do a lightning talk on how it's set up, perhaps mainly to see if anyone else more crypto-savvy than me thinks there are any gaping holes in its security model :-) Dave From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Fri Jan 16 12:42:37 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Fri Jan 16 12:08:10 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <496E505A.2010902@xmission.com> <1232002017.21226.281.camel@kev-desktop> <79c119390901142256p6d398489o13ae74dd19bc7165@mail.gmail.com> <20090115153051.GA7094@uber> <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <4970E32D.7050001@ridgecrestherbals.com> Bad form to respond to myself, but here is a particular issue/example. I have ~1TB of files on my servers at work and at home, 120GB of files on my laptop, 80GB on my iPod, 2GB on my smartphone (which also includes some ebooks, podcasts, photos and music), but in each case, I'd like the most current or important (either or both) stuff on the more portable devices. How do you keep those in sync with a larger repository, given the varying capacities? Strategies and methods would be welcome. Matt Warnock wrote: > Personally, I'd love to see something about how other people keep all > the various data aspects of their lives in sync. Too many websites, > too many accounts, too many directories, too many laptops, too many > systems with different home directories, too many places that need > backup, or whatever, etc. Maybe a whole session, or maybe a different > somebody takes 5-10 minutes each session to talk about it. Just an idea. > > --Matt From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Fri Jan 16 12:48:05 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Fri Jan 16 12:13:38 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <200901161217.07928.fozz@xmission.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <20090115153051.GA7094@uber> <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <200901161217.07928.fozz@xmission.com> Message-ID: <4970E475.3030409@ridgecrestherbals.com> Doran L. Barton wrote: > When I get my Palm Pre, I'll come to a SLLUG meeting and everyone can > touch it. ;-) > Yeah, I'm looking forward to that too, but even that won't give you something to read on a campout miles from nowhere, unless you have your latest read from Gutenberg Project on it. :-) And since I'm on Verizon, I'm a second-class Pre prospect. Could make me jump though. From eggyknap at gmail.com Fri Jan 16 13:16:13 2009 From: eggyknap at gmail.com (Joshua Tolley) Date: Fri Jan 16 12:41:48 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <1232134428.29050.1295195279@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <1232002017.21226.281.camel@kev-desktop> <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1232134428.29050.1295195279@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20090116201612.GA6982@eddie> On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 12:33:48PM -0700, David J Iannucci wrote: > > Maybe a whole session, or maybe a different somebody takes 5-10 > > minutes each session to talk about it. Just an idea. > > Lightning talks. Probably a good thing to have once in a while. +1 - Josh / eggyknap -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090116/968626de/attachment.pgp From kwalker at kobran.org Fri Jan 16 14:55:49 2009 From: kwalker at kobran.org (Knight Walker) Date: Fri Jan 16 14:21:18 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <4970E32D.7050001@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <496E505A.2010902@xmission.com> <1232002017.21226.281.camel@kev-desktop> <79c119390901142256p6d398489o13ae74dd19bc7165@mail.gmail.com> <20090115153051.GA7094@uber> <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4970E32D.7050001@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <1232142949.3348.9.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 12:42 -0700, Matt Warnock wrote: > Bad form to respond to myself, but here is a particular issue/example. > I have ~1TB of files on my servers at work and at home, 120GB of files > on my laptop, 80GB on my iPod, 2GB on my smartphone (which also includes > some ebooks, podcasts, photos and music), but in each case, I'd like the > most current or important (either or both) stuff on the more portable > devices. How do you keep those in sync with a larger repository, given > the varying capacities? Strategies and methods would be welcome. Unison? Two-way rsync? It could be hairy depending on how you set it up and how automated you wanted it to be, but I do something like that for my own stuff. -KW From sjansen at buscaluz.org Fri Jan 16 21:31:47 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Fri Jan 16 20:57:48 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Smoke 'em if you got 'em Message-ID: <1232166707.3589.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Looks like Seagate has been shipping drives with bad firmware. If you have recent Seagate or Maxtor drives, probably want to check out the article. If your thinking about buying drives, probably want to wait until the bad drives get sold off. http://techreport.com/discussions.x/16246 http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=207931 Need a quick way to check your model or serial number in Linux? smartctl -a /dev/sda | head -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From matt at frozenatom.com Sat Jan 17 09:15:41 2009 From: matt at frozenatom.com (Matt Nelson) Date: Sat Jan 17 08:41:10 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <1232142949.3348.9.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <496E505A.2010902@xmission.com> <1232002017.21226.281.camel@kev-desktop> <79c119390901142256p6d398489o13ae74dd19bc7165@mail.gmail.com> <20090115153051.GA7094@uber> <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4970E32D.7050001@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1232142949.3348.9.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> Message-ID: <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> I commute a total of about 2 hours a day. I have a spare laptop that I am thinking of mounting in my trunk that would have the ability to play my music, podcasts, etc. If anyone has anything similar to this setup I would love to see what you have done. I also would love to install a "Mobile Mythtv" in my wife's car that would have opensource GPS, etc... If no-one bites, maybe in a year I could present what I've done, wish me luck :) On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Knight Walker wrote: > On Fri, 2009-01-16 at 12:42 -0700, Matt Warnock wrote: > > Bad form to respond to myself, but here is a particular issue/example. > > I have ~1TB of files on my servers at work and at home, 120GB of files > > on my laptop, 80GB on my iPod, 2GB on my smartphone (which also includes > > some ebooks, podcasts, photos and music), but in each case, I'd like the > > most current or important (either or both) stuff on the more portable > > devices. How do you keep those in sync with a larger repository, given > > the varying capacities? Strategies and methods would be welcome. > > Unison? Two-way rsync? It could be hairy depending on how you set it up > and how automated you wanted it to be, but I do something like that for > my own stuff. > > -KW > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090117/bc77f91c/attachment.html From u235sentinel at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 11:35:26 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Sat Jan 17 11:00:54 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Smoke 'em if you got 'em In-Reply-To: <1232166707.3589.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1232166707.3589.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <497224EE.1040004@gmail.com> Now I'm glad I bought the 7200.10 models instead of the .11 model drives :-) What a nightmare! From fozz at xmission.com Sat Jan 17 12:12:17 2009 From: fozz at xmission.com (Doran L. Barton) Date: Sat Jan 17 11:38:01 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Smoke 'em if you got 'em In-Reply-To: <1232166707.3589.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1232166707.3589.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200901171212.18216.fozz@xmission.com> On Friday 16 January 2009 21:31:47 Stuart Jansen wrote: > Looks like Seagate has been shipping drives with bad firmware. If you > have recent Seagate or Maxtor drives, probably want to check out the > article. If your thinking about buying drives, probably want to wait > until the bad drives get sold off. Well, I gotta say, I'm glad I've stuck to buying Western Digital RE3 drives (for servers) and Samsung Spinpoint drives (for workstations). -- Doran L. Barton - Linux, Perl, Web, good fun, and more! "Do not drive a car or operate machinery after taking this medication." -- Seen on label of children's cough medicine From u235sentinel at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 12:40:33 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Sat Jan 17 12:06:03 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Smoke 'em if you got 'em In-Reply-To: <200901171212.18216.fozz@xmission.com> References: <1232166707.3589.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200901171212.18216.fozz@xmission.com> Message-ID: <49723431.1010702@gmail.com> Doran L. Barton wrote: > > Well, I gotta say, I'm glad I've stuck to buying Western Digital RE3 drives > (for servers) and Samsung Spinpoint drives (for workstations). > Is anyone here using Hitachi drives by chance? I've been looking at their 1 Tb drives. Thinking of a purchase in the next few weeks. I've been reading about heat problems but it seems most large capacity drives suffer from that regardless. I'm looking at purchasing 4 of them for a new home MythTV box I'm building. I figure setting it up in RAID 5 and running Ubuntu. It's going to have all the bells and whistles I can toss into it :-) From tripzero at nextabyte.com Sat Jan 17 12:42:12 2009 From: tripzero at nextabyte.com (Kevron Rees) Date: Sat Jan 17 12:07:59 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <496E505A.2010902@xmission.com> <1232002017.21226.281.camel@kev-desktop> <79c119390901142256p6d398489o13ae74dd19bc7165@mail.gmail.com> <20090115153051.GA7094@uber> <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4970E32D.7050001@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1232142949.3348.9.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1232221332.24762.4.camel@kev-desktop> On Sat, 2009-01-17 at 09:15 -0700, Matt Nelson wrote: > I commute a total of about 2 hours a day. I have a spare laptop that > I am thinking of mounting in my trunk that would have the ability to > play my music, podcasts, etc. If anyone has anything similar to this > setup I would love to see what you have done. I also would love to > install a "Mobile Mythtv" in my wife's car that would have opensource > GPS, etc... > > If no-one bites, maybe in a year I could present what I've done, wish > me luck :) > Matt, take a look at http://openice.org. They specialize in open source in-vehicle software. Here's a video of my setup in my car: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW_2iV62WqE I've also done a video walkthrough of the software installation here: http://forums.openice.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=492&p=3180#p3180 As I mentioned before, I'd be willing to talk about this in a future meeting. Or if you just need some pointers, I'm also here. From matt at frozenatom.com Sat Jan 17 13:20:47 2009 From: matt at frozenatom.com (Matt Nelson) Date: Sat Jan 17 12:52:41 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Smoke 'em if you got 'em In-Reply-To: <49723431.1010702@gmail.com> References: <1232166707.3589.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200901171212.18216.fozz@xmission.com> <49723431.1010702@gmail.com> Message-ID: <148f6bb30901171220k26c75d11uc62fe2ab1916b9d6@mail.gmail.com> I have been a BIG fan of Hitachi drives. Other then the know "Deathstar" of years ago I have had very good luck with them. I am currently running 18 Hitachi drives, 14 of them in one of my mythbackends, and have only had one of them die over the last 4 years. The problem was a deterministic failure that I was able to catch with my Nagios monitoring via SMART, and RMA'd the drive before it caused any problems. Go Hitachi! On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 12:40 PM, u235sentinel wrote: > Doran L. Barton wrote: > >> >> Well, I gotta say, I'm glad I've stuck to buying Western Digital RE3 >> drives (for servers) and Samsung Spinpoint drives (for workstations). >> > Is anyone here using Hitachi drives by chance? I've been looking at their > 1 Tb drives. Thinking of a purchase in the next few weeks. I've been > reading about heat problems but it seems most large capacity drives suffer > from that regardless. > I'm looking at purchasing 4 of them for a new home MythTV box I'm building. > I figure setting it up in RAID 5 and running Ubuntu. It's going to have > all the bells and whistles I can toss into it :-) > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090117/9d37c721/attachment.htm From bob.l.lewis at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 14:57:36 2009 From: bob.l.lewis at gmail.com (Robert Lewis) Date: Sat Jan 17 14:23:14 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Smoke 'em if you got 'em In-Reply-To: <148f6bb30901171220k26c75d11uc62fe2ab1916b9d6@mail.gmail.com> References: <1232166707.3589.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200901171212.18216.fozz@xmission.com> <49723431.1010702@gmail.com> <148f6bb30901171220k26c75d11uc62fe2ab1916b9d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <86d2b63e0901171357m748c7955h20070283e76a827a@mail.gmail.com> I appreciate this info. and have been caught by it on drives I purchased just a week ago. On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Matt Nelson wrote: > I have been a BIG fan of Hitachi drives. Other then the know "Deathstar" of > years ago I have had very good luck with them. > > I am currently running 18 Hitachi drives, 14 of them in one of my > mythbackends, and have only had one of them die over the last 4 years. The > problem was a deterministic failure that I was able to catch with my Nagios > monitoring via SMART, and RMA'd the drive before it caused any problems. > > Go Hitachi! > > On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 12:40 PM, u235sentinel > wrote: >> >> Doran L. Barton wrote: >>> >>> Well, I gotta say, I'm glad I've stuck to buying Western Digital RE3 >>> drives (for servers) and Samsung Spinpoint drives (for workstations). >> >> Is anyone here using Hitachi drives by chance? I've been looking at their >> 1 Tb drives. Thinking of a purchase in the next few weeks. I've been >> reading about heat problems but it seems most large capacity drives suffer >> from that regardless. >> I'm looking at purchasing 4 of them for a new home MythTV box I'm >> building. I figure setting it up in RAID 5 and running Ubuntu. It's going >> to have all the bells and whistles I can toss into it :-) >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > From tvanry at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 15:56:59 2009 From: tvanry at gmail.com (Thad Van Ry) Date: Sat Jan 17 15:22:27 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <496E505A.2010902@xmission.com> <1232002017.21226.281.camel@kev-desktop> <79c119390901142256p6d398489o13ae74dd19bc7165@mail.gmail.com> <20090115153051.GA7094@uber> <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4970E32D.7050001@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1232142949.3348.9.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> Last Wednesday I attended the VMUG (VM ware User Group). This meeting was held during the day with a corporate sponsor (Cisco) who brought in lunch. In talking with other Linux admins where I work (LDS Church) some of them expressed an interest in coming to SLLUG, but, they couldn't swing it with prior commitments at night. What is the likely hood of holding SLLUG meetings during the day? How many people would be able to attend during the day? The VMUG only has a meeting once a quarter. I could definitely attend if the meetings were held during the day. Anyone else? Thad From travis.fisher at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 22:12:48 2009 From: travis.fisher at gmail.com (Travis & Melody Fisher) Date: Sat Jan 17 21:38:16 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Smoke 'em if you got 'em In-Reply-To: <86d2b63e0901171357m748c7955h20070283e76a827a@mail.gmail.com> References: <1232166707.3589.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200901171212.18216.fozz@xmission.com> <49723431.1010702@gmail.com> <148f6bb30901171220k26c75d11uc62fe2ab1916b9d6@mail.gmail.com> <86d2b63e0901171357m748c7955h20070283e76a827a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5ea2aae70901172112k6c013ecfh764f4d7e76326791@mail.gmail.com> So does the new firmware resolve the problems or is it still not safe to buy 7200.11 drives? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090117/963f245e/attachment.html From bob.l.lewis at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 22:37:04 2009 From: bob.l.lewis at gmail.com (Robert Lewis) Date: Sat Jan 17 22:02:38 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Smoke 'em if you got 'em In-Reply-To: <5ea2aae70901172112k6c013ecfh764f4d7e76326791@mail.gmail.com> References: <1232166707.3589.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200901171212.18216.fozz@xmission.com> <49723431.1010702@gmail.com> <148f6bb30901171220k26c75d11uc62fe2ab1916b9d6@mail.gmail.com> <86d2b63e0901171357m748c7955h20070283e76a827a@mail.gmail.com> <5ea2aae70901172112k6c013ecfh764f4d7e76326791@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <86d2b63e0901172137q3bbbad58y72fedb5712d495a8@mail.gmail.com> How do you define faith ? On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 9:12 PM, Travis & Melody Fisher wrote: > So does the new firmware resolve the problems or is it still not safe to buy > 7200.11 drives? > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > From u235sentinel at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 22:59:29 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Sat Jan 17 22:24:59 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Smoke 'em if you got 'em In-Reply-To: <86d2b63e0901172137q3bbbad58y72fedb5712d495a8@mail.gmail.com> References: <1232166707.3589.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200901171212.18216.fozz@xmission.com> <49723431.1010702@gmail.com> <148f6bb30901171220k26c75d11uc62fe2ab1916b9d6@mail.gmail.com> <86d2b63e0901171357m748c7955h20070283e76a827a@mail.gmail.com> <5ea2aae70901172112k6c013ecfh764f4d7e76326791@mail.gmail.com> <86d2b63e0901172137q3bbbad58y72fedb5712d495a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4972C541.5050103@gmail.com> Robert Lewis wrote: > How do you define faith ? > > Are you asking in the religious context of the computer one They don't mean the same thing usually ;-) From sjansen at buscaluz.org Sat Jan 17 23:02:28 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Sat Jan 17 22:28:21 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Smoke 'em if you got 'em In-Reply-To: <5ea2aae70901172112k6c013ecfh764f4d7e76326791@mail.gmail.com> References: <1232166707.3589.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200901171212.18216.fozz@xmission.com> <49723431.1010702@gmail.com> <148f6bb30901171220k26c75d11uc62fe2ab1916b9d6@mail.gmail.com> <86d2b63e0901171357m748c7955h20070283e76a827a@mail.gmail.com> <5ea2aae70901172112k6c013ecfh764f4d7e76326791@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1232258548.3874.112.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2009-01-17 at 22:12 -0700, Travis & Melody Fisher wrote: > So does the new firmware resolve the problems or is it still not safe > to buy 7200.11 drives? Assuming the new firmware does resolve the problem, there are still a lot of drives with the old firmware being sold. Until they're all sold, be prepared for the hassle of upgrading the firmware yourself. -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From bob.l.lewis at gmail.com Sat Jan 17 23:10:23 2009 From: bob.l.lewis at gmail.com (Robert Lewis) Date: Sat Jan 17 22:35:51 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Smoke 'em if you got 'em In-Reply-To: <1232258548.3874.112.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1232166707.3589.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200901171212.18216.fozz@xmission.com> <49723431.1010702@gmail.com> <148f6bb30901171220k26c75d11uc62fe2ab1916b9d6@mail.gmail.com> <86d2b63e0901171357m748c7955h20070283e76a827a@mail.gmail.com> <5ea2aae70901172112k6c013ecfh764f4d7e76326791@mail.gmail.com> <1232258548.3874.112.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <86d2b63e0901172210y5ff1cf19j383dd9353e88b2d4@mail.gmail.com> when I get the firmware I wonder how to install it under Linux or do they provide an ISO image? The drives are working fine but i don't want any future issues. I have a support number and Seagate support has been responsive with their feedback. I have asked them this question. On Sat, Jan 17, 2009 at 10:02 PM, Stuart Jansen wrote: > On Sat, 2009-01-17 at 22:12 -0700, Travis & Melody Fisher wrote: >> So does the new firmware resolve the problems or is it still not safe >> to buy 7200.11 drives? > > Assuming the new firmware does resolve the problem, there are still a > lot of drives with the old firmware being sold. Until they're all sold, > be prepared for the hassle of upgrading the firmware yourself. > > -- > When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical > evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing > is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who > remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From sjansen at buscaluz.org Mon Jan 19 10:36:24 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Mon Jan 19 10:02:27 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: 2 x 1GB laptop RAM Message-ID: <1232386584.3547.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Anyone have a use for two 1GB PC2 5300S laptop RAM sticks? I'll give them free to whoever comes and picks them up. I live and work in Bountiful, but might be coming to the SLLUG meeting Wednesday. -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From nconger at novell.com Mon Jan 19 16:06:55 2009 From: nconger at novell.com (Nathan Conger) Date: Mon Jan 19 15:33:30 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Linux Day Salt Lake City, January 28 Message-ID: <4974A51F020000300000E453@lucius.provo.novell.com> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090119/3440e2dc/LinuxDaySaltLakeCity1.html From mark.s.levitt at L-3com.com Mon Jan 19 16:34:07 2009 From: mark.s.levitt at L-3com.com (mark.s.levitt@L-3com.com) Date: Mon Jan 19 15:59:39 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: RE: 2 x 1GB laptop RAM (Stuart Jansen) In-Reply-To: <200901191900.n0JJ04iT027191@sllug.org> References: <200901191900.n0JJ04iT027191@sllug.org> Message-ID: <06585430478E1D418B54779AFABA24D307BA16@MAIL2.csw.l-3com.com> I'm interested! I'll see you at the meeting if you can make it, but am happy to come up to meet you if you can't. Thanks, Mark From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Mon Jan 19 16:41:00 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Mon Jan 19 16:06:39 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: 2 x 1GB laptop RAM In-Reply-To: <1232386584.3547.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1232386584.3547.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49750F8C.1030400@ridgecrestherbals.com> I'll take them. Tell me where to come. Stuart Jansen wrote: > Anyone have a use for two 1GB PC2 5300S laptop RAM sticks? > > I'll give them free to whoever comes and picks them up. I live and work > in Bountiful, but might be coming to the SLLUG meeting Wednesday. > > From mgonzalez at utah.gov Tue Jan 20 06:11:56 2009 From: mgonzalez at utah.gov (Martin Gonzalez) Date: Tue Jan 20 05:37:52 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <496E505A.2010902@xmission.com> <1232002017.21226.281.camel@kev-desktop> <79c119390901142256p6d398489o13ae74dd19bc7165@mail.gmail.com> <20090115153051.GA7094@uber> <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4970E32D.7050001@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1232142949.3348.9.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> I would be interested in attending a SLLUG during the day. >>> "Thad Van Ry" 01/17/09 3:56 PM >>> Last Wednesday I attended the VMUG (VM ware User Group). This meeting was held during the day with a corporate sponsor (Cisco) who brought in lunch. In talking with other Linux admins where I work (LDS Church) some of them expressed an interest in coming to SLLUG, but, they couldn't swing it with prior commitments at night. What is the likely hood of holding SLLUG meetings during the day? How many people would be able to attend during the day? The VMUG only has a meeting once a quarter. I could definitely attend if the meetings were held during the day. Anyone else? Thad ______________________________________________________________________ See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah sllug-members@sllug.org http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090120/c0c75d39/attachment.htm From thatch45 at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 08:52:10 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Tue Jan 20 08:19:40 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: libc question Message-ID: <6172c17e0901200752m1d9b99eck6e5050d997d2696f@mail.gmail.com> So, correct me if I am wrong, but if I have a driver that has been made for the 2.4.21 kernel, and I am building it against the 2.4.21 kernel, then I need a compatible version of glibc and gcc. Other wise I cannot build against a 4.2.21 kernel with gcc 4.3. If this is not clear just say so. -Tom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090120/ba4d0325/attachment.html From sjansen at buscaluz.org Tue Jan 20 09:02:33 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Tue Jan 20 08:28:27 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: libc question In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0901200752m1d9b99eck6e5050d997d2696f@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901200752m1d9b99eck6e5050d997d2696f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1232467353.3899.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2009-01-20 at 08:52 -0700, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > So, correct me if I am wrong, but if I have a driver that has been > made for the 2.4.21 kernel, and I am building it against the 2.4.21 > kernel, then I need a compatible version of glibc and gcc. Other wise > I cannot build against a 4.2.21 kernel with gcc 4.3. If this is not > clear just say so. I'm sure you've already read that none of the libc functionality can be be by kernel code, but I'll repeat it to make sure we're on the same page. (Although the kernel does include rough equivalents for some libc functions.) While the internals of the kernel are constantly changing, great pains are taken to make sure that the external API & ABI stays the same. You _should_ be able to use an old libc with a new kernel, you just won't be able to take advantage of new kernel features supported by later versions of libc. -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From matt at frozenatom.com Tue Jan 20 07:17:06 2009 From: matt at frozenatom.com (Matt Nelson) Date: Tue Jan 20 08:43:51 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <1232002017.21226.281.camel@kev-desktop> <79c119390901142256p6d398489o13ae74dd19bc7165@mail.gmail.com> <20090115153051.GA7094@uber> <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4970E32D.7050001@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1232142949.3348.9.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> Message-ID: <148f6bb30901200617v58b670cfj981a0bf4602f706d@mail.gmail.com> I would be interested in attending SLUG meetings during the day. I commute to SLC from Orem, so during the day would be convenient. On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:11 AM, Martin Gonzalez wrote: > I would be interested in attending a SLLUG during the day. > > >>> "Thad Van Ry" 01/17/09 3:56 PM >>> > > Last Wednesday I attended the VMUG (VM ware User Group). This meeting > was held during the day with a corporate sponsor (Cisco) who brought > in lunch. In talking with other Linux admins where I work (LDS Church) > some of them expressed an interest in coming to SLLUG, but, they > couldn't swing it with prior commitments at night. > > What is the likely hood of holding SLLUG meetings during the day? How > many people would be able to attend during the day? The VMUG only has > a meeting once a quarter. I could definitely attend if the meetings > were held during the day. Anyone else? > > Thad > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090120/88c605c5/attachment.htm From thatch45 at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 09:19:05 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Tue Jan 20 08:48:40 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: libc question In-Reply-To: <1232467353.3899.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <6172c17e0901200752m1d9b99eck6e5050d997d2696f@mail.gmail.com> <1232467353.3899.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <6172c17e0901200819u691f4a08veb5cdd0303ee8435@mail.gmail.com> Thats what I thought, I am just getting strange compile errors and thought it was worth checking. I am trying to cross compile some code for an arm 7 chip, I think that something is wrong with my arm toolchain, I will ask again when I have more info on it. On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Stuart Jansen wrote: > On Tue, 2009-01-20 at 08:52 -0700, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > > So, correct me if I am wrong, but if I have a driver that has been > > made for the 2.4.21 kernel, and I am building it against the 2.4.21 > > kernel, then I need a compatible version of glibc and gcc. Other wise > > I cannot build against a 4.2.21 kernel with gcc 4.3. If this is not > > clear just say so. > > I'm sure you've already read that none of the libc functionality can be > be by kernel code, but I'll repeat it to make sure we're on the same > page. (Although the kernel does include rough equivalents for some libc > functions.) > > While the internals of the kernel are constantly changing, great pains > are taken to make sure that the external API & ABI stays the same. You > _should_ be able to use an old libc with a new kernel, you just won't be > able to take advantage of new kernel features supported by later > versions of libc. > > -- > When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical > evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing > is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who > remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090120/09760114/attachment.html From ccjoegml at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 09:34:37 2009 From: ccjoegml at gmail.com (Joe George) Date: Tue Jan 20 09:00:03 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: libc question In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0901200819u691f4a08veb5cdd0303ee8435@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901200752m1d9b99eck6e5050d997d2696f@mail.gmail.com> <1232467353.3899.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6172c17e0901200819u691f4a08veb5cdd0303ee8435@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7631e7570901200834q3e467a83xbecdbb429123bdbf@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > Thats what I thought, I am just getting strange compile errors and thought > it was worth checking. I am trying to cross compile some code for an arm 7 > chip, I think that something is wrong with my arm toolchain, I will ask > again when I have more info on it. > > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Stuart Jansen wrote: >> >> On Tue, 2009-01-20 at 08:52 -0700, Thomas S Hatch wrote: >> > So, correct me if I am wrong, but if I have a driver that has been >> > made for the 2.4.21 kernel, and I am building it against the 2.4.21 >> > kernel, then I need a compatible version of glibc and gcc. Other wise >> > I cannot build against a 4.2.21 kernel with gcc 4.3. If this is not >> > clear just say so. >> >> I'm sure you've already read that none of the libc functionality can be >> be by kernel code, but I'll repeat it to make sure we're on the same >> page. (Although the kernel does include rough equivalents for some libc >> functions.) >> >> While the internals of the kernel are constantly changing, great pains >> are taken to make sure that the external API & ABI stays the same. You >> _should_ be able to use an old libc with a new kernel, you just won't be >> able to take advantage of new kernel features supported by later >> versions of libc. >> Is there a reason you need to use such an ancient kernel? If you can change, you could use buildroot.org which is well supported for ARM. Joe From thatch45 at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 09:39:01 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Tue Jan 20 09:04:31 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: libc question In-Reply-To: <7631e7570901200834q3e467a83xbecdbb429123bdbf@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901200752m1d9b99eck6e5050d997d2696f@mail.gmail.com> <1232467353.3899.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6172c17e0901200819u691f4a08veb5cdd0303ee8435@mail.gmail.com> <7631e7570901200834q3e467a83xbecdbb429123bdbf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6172c17e0901200839y43229bf8n79b6484681fad3d@mail.gmail.com> The driver for the device seems to have issues with newer kernels, I am acctually looking into just updating the code. But it is for an arm device that is currently running on that kernel. So the arm device's entire os will need to be updated too. On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Joe George wrote: > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Thomas S Hatch > wrote: > > Thats what I thought, I am just getting strange compile errors and > thought > > it was worth checking. I am trying to cross compile some code for an arm > 7 > > chip, I think that something is wrong with my arm toolchain, I will ask > > again when I have more info on it. > > > > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:02 AM, Stuart Jansen > wrote: > >> > >> On Tue, 2009-01-20 at 08:52 -0700, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > >> > So, correct me if I am wrong, but if I have a driver that has been > >> > made for the 2.4.21 kernel, and I am building it against the 2.4.21 > >> > kernel, then I need a compatible version of glibc and gcc. Other wise > >> > I cannot build against a 4.2.21 kernel with gcc 4.3. If this is not > >> > clear just say so. > >> > >> I'm sure you've already read that none of the libc functionality can be > >> be by kernel code, but I'll repeat it to make sure we're on the same > >> page. (Although the kernel does include rough equivalents for some libc > >> functions.) > >> > >> While the internals of the kernel are constantly changing, great pains > >> are taken to make sure that the external API & ABI stays the same. You > >> _should_ be able to use an old libc with a new kernel, you just won't be > >> able to take advantage of new kernel features supported by later > >> versions of libc. > >> > > Is there a reason you need to use such an ancient kernel? If you can > change, > you could use buildroot.org which is well supported for ARM. > > Joe > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090120/76be89d4/attachment.htm From kd7nyq at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 09:40:58 2009 From: kd7nyq at gmail.com (Andrew Jackman) Date: Tue Jan 20 09:06:25 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <148f6bb30901200617v58b670cfj981a0bf4602f706d@mail.gmail.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <79c119390901142256p6d398489o13ae74dd19bc7165@mail.gmail.com> <20090115153051.GA7094@uber> <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4970E32D.7050001@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1232142949.3348.9.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> <148f6bb30901200617v58b670cfj981a0bf4602f706d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <79c119390901200840m410fc637g77a2aa5e4cde1e81@mail.gmail.com> As much as I hate to agree, I am also far more likely to attend meetings if they were not at night, especially on weekdays. Of course, trying to convince people to change a meeting schedule which has been engrained into the routines of many of the members is not necesarily a good idea. When I lived in Washington, 3CLUG had an official presentation hour in the Barnes and Noble bookstore, but the members were invited to come all day and enjoy a 'meeting' (people coming together) without needing to participate in the official stuff later on. My proposed solution was to podcast, post videos, etc. Google Tech Talks are a good example and they're not much in terms of technical mastery. Do we have a budget for such a thing? I would be willing to pay dues for such a service. Two official meetings is also an idea, but twice the work. Andrew Roy Jackman W7MEZ On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 7:17 AM, Matt Nelson wrote: > I would be interested in attending SLUG meetings during the day. I commute > to SLC from Orem, so during the day would be convenient. > > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:11 AM, Martin Gonzalez wrote: >> >> I would be interested in attending a SLLUG during the day. >> >> >>> "Thad Van Ry" 01/17/09 3:56 PM >>> >> >> Last Wednesday I attended the VMUG (VM ware User Group). This meeting >> was held during the day with a corporate sponsor (Cisco) who brought >> in lunch. In talking with other Linux admins where I work (LDS Church) >> some of them expressed an interest in coming to SLLUG, but, they >> couldn't swing it with prior commitments at night. >> >> What is the likely hood of holding SLLUG meetings during the day? How >> many people would be able to attend during the day? The VMUG only has >> a meeting once a quarter. I could definitely attend if the meetings >> were held during the day. Anyone else? >> >> Thad >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > From zspecialk at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 09:49:28 2009 From: zspecialk at gmail.com (Scott K) Date: Tue Jan 20 09:14:56 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <1232002017.21226.281.camel@kev-desktop> <79c119390901142256p6d398489o13ae74dd19bc7165@mail.gmail.com> <20090115153051.GA7094@uber> <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4970E32D.7050001@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1232142949.3348.9.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> Message-ID: <90cf3c3d0901200849s59dfab03t2e52172dab9847af@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:11 AM, Martin Gonzalez wrote: > I would be interested in attending a SLLUG during the day. >>>> "Thad Van Ry" 01/17/09 3:56 PM >>> but, they > couldn't swing it with prior commitments at night. > > What is the likely hood of holding SLLUG meetings during the day? How > many people would be able to attend during the day? The VMUG only has > a meeting once a quarter. I could definitely attend if the meetings > were held during the day. Anyone else? > > Thad I don't know what our arrangement with the university of Utah is, but I have a suspicion that it would be harder to obtain a room mid-day, let alone find parking within miles. Not only would we need a time that works for everybody, but we would need a brand new meeting place with minimal parking worries. Any suggestions on a centrally located place with easy parking that would work for a mid-day meeting? That said, it would generally be easier for me just to go to an evening meeting. Scott From marc at sllug.org Tue Jan 20 09:57:14 2009 From: marc at sllug.org (Marc Christensen) Date: Tue Jan 20 09:22:57 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: SLLUG meeting: Wed. Jan 21, 2009: Google Sketchup 7 running on Wine demo Message-ID: <4976026A.7060702@sllug.org> Hey all, I'll be giving a short presentation and demo of Google Sketchup 7 running on Wine. (if I can get it working on the laptop I'm borrowing from work. If that fails, we'll talk about some other Linux tips and tricks. So, bring your tips and tricks to share and cross your fingers on the wine/sketchup demo! Should be tons of fun! We'll watch some of the demo videos for Sketchup as well. http://sketchup.google.com/ http://www.winehq.org/ Time/Date: ---------- Wednesday, January 21, 2008 7:10pm p.m. Place: ---------- Room 101 in Lower Warnock Engineering Building Directions/Parking: Directions - [http://www.map.utah.edu/index.jsp?find=62] Parking can be found just East of the WEB building and there is a big lot just North of the Merrill Engineering building (MEB). Parking is free after 6:00 (Based on the signs posted. Always check in case this changes.) Special thanks go to: - U of U for providing the meeting room. - Various Volunteers -- Marc Christensen http://www.sllug.org From mgonzalez at utah.gov Tue Jan 20 09:57:29 2009 From: mgonzalez at utah.gov (Martin Gonzalez) Date: Tue Jan 20 09:23:20 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <90cf3c3d0901200849s59dfab03t2e52172dab9847af@mail.gmail.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <1232002017.21226.281.camel@kev-desktop> <79c119390901142256p6d398489o13ae74dd19bc7165@mail.gmail.com> <20090115153051.GA7094@uber> <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4970E32D.7050001@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1232142949.3348.9.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> <90cf3c3d0901200849s59dfab03t2e52172dab9847af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49759F31.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> Has anyone given consideration to meetings at the Salt Lake City Library, http://www.slcpl.lib.ut.us/email_form.jsp?parent_id=10&page_id=80 ( http://www.slcpl.lib.ut.us/email_form.jsp?parent_id=10&page_id=80 ) >>> "Scott K" 01/20/09 9:49 AM >>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 6:11 AM, Martin Gonzalez wrote: > I would be interested in attending a SLLUG during the day. >>>> "Thad Van Ry" 01/17/09 3:56 PM >>> but, they > couldn't swing it with prior commitments at night. > > What is the likely hood of holding SLLUG meetings during the day? How > many people would be able to attend during the day? The VMUG only has > a meeting once a quarter. I could definitely attend if the meetings > were held during the day. Anyone else? > > Thad I don't know what our arrangement with the university of Utah is, but I have a suspicion that it would be harder to obtain a room mid-day, let alone find parking within miles. Not only would we need a time that works for everybody, but we would need a brand new meeting place with minimal parking worries. Any suggestions on a centrally located place with easy parking that would work for a mid-day meeting? That said, it would generally be easier for me just to go to an evening meeting. Scott ______________________________________________________________________ See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah sllug-members@sllug.org http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090120/25aca9b9/attachment.html From namonai at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 10:17:48 2009 From: namonai at gmail.com (Craig Kelley) Date: Tue Jan 20 09:45:09 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <90cf3c3d0901200849s59dfab03t2e52172dab9847af@mail.gmail.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <79c119390901142256p6d398489o13ae74dd19bc7165@mail.gmail.com> <20090115153051.GA7094@uber> <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4970E32D.7050001@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1232142949.3348.9.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> <90cf3c3d0901200849s59dfab03t2e52172dab9847af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <847993120901200917xb0c9d04yc603a19e9f3cf324@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Scott K wrote: > I don't know what our arrangement with the university of Utah is, but > I have a suspicion that it would be harder to obtain a room mid-day, > let alone find parking within miles. Not only would we need a time > that works for everybody, but we would need a brand new meeting place > with minimal parking worries. Yes, it would be practically impossible to hold the meeting on campus during the day, particularly in the engineering building. -- http://inconnu.islug.org/~ink finger ink@inconnu.islug.org for PGP block From byron at theclarkfamily.name Tue Jan 20 10:23:08 2009 From: byron at theclarkfamily.name (Byron Clark) Date: Tue Jan 20 09:48:17 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: libc question In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0901200752m1d9b99eck6e5050d997d2696f@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0901200752m1d9b99eck6e5050d997d2696f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090120172308.GC4140@bclarklx.appsig.com> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 08:52:10AM -0700, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > So, correct me if I am wrong, but if I have a driver that has been made for > the 2.4.21 kernel, and I am building it against the 2.4.21 kernel, then I > need a compatible version of glibc and gcc. Other wise I cannot build > against a 4.2.21 kernel with gcc 4.3. If this is not clear just say so. You cannot build a 2.4.21 kernel with gcc 4.3. Support was added for gcc 3.4.x later in the 2.4.x series, but your best bet for the 2.4 kernel is to use gcc 2.95. -- Byron Clark From thatch45 at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 10:35:25 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Tue Jan 20 10:00:52 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: libc question In-Reply-To: <20090120172308.GC4140@bclarklx.appsig.com> References: <6172c17e0901200752m1d9b99eck6e5050d997d2696f@mail.gmail.com> <20090120172308.GC4140@bclarklx.appsig.com> Message-ID: <6172c17e0901200935s2cc52599t57a86e9cf8928a31@mail.gmail.com> Thanks, thats what I am looking into. I need to just update all this code etc. On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Byron Clark wrote: > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 08:52:10AM -0700, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > > So, correct me if I am wrong, but if I have a driver that has been made > for > > the 2.4.21 kernel, and I am building it against the 2.4.21 kernel, then I > > need a compatible version of glibc and gcc. Other wise I cannot build > > against a 4.2.21 kernel with gcc 4.3. If this is not clear just say so. > > You cannot build a 2.4.21 kernel with gcc 4.3. Support was added for > gcc 3.4.x later in the 2.4.x series, but your best bet for the 2.4 > kernel is to use gcc 2.95. > > -- > Byron Clark > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090120/5a90c378/attachment.htm From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Tue Jan 20 10:35:25 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Tue Jan 20 10:00:56 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <496E505A.2010902@xmission.com> <1232002017.21226.281.camel@kev-desktop> <79c119390901142256p6d398489o13ae74dd19bc7165@mail.gmail.com> <20090115153051.GA7094@uber> <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4970E32D.7050001@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1232142949.3348.9.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> Message-ID: <49760B5D.7000203@ridgecrestherbals.com> I can do it either way. Daytime has some advantages. Martin Gonzalez wrote: > > I would be interested in attending a SLLUG during the day. > > >>> "Thad Van Ry" 01/17/09 3:56 PM >>> > Last Wednesday I attended the VMUG (VM ware User Group). This meeting > was held during the day with a corporate sponsor (Cisco) who brought > in lunch. In talking with other Linux admins where I work (LDS Church) > some of them expressed an interest in coming to SLLUG, but, they > couldn't swing it with prior commitments at night. > > What is the likely hood of holding SLLUG meetings during the day? How > many people would be able to attend during the day? The VMUG only has > a meeting once a quarter. I could definitely attend if the meetings > were held during the day. Anyone else? > > Thad > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From herlo1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 11:25:20 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Tue Jan 20 10:50:47 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Salt Lake Daytime LUG meetings was Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings Message-ID: So I've decided to take the ball on this one and see what the real interest is in something during the day. I've been wanting to help run a LUG for some time, so this seems like the perfect opportunity. My plan is to hold meetings from 11:30am-1pm on a Wednesday (probably the 2nd or 4th Wednesday) at the Salt Lake Public Library. I just got off the phone with the Library staff and they said that they make reservations in blocks of 9am-1pm and 2pm-6pm so I think the 9am-1pm block would work best, and get people back to work at a reasonable hour. I'm in the process of filling out the paperwork and just wanted to see what the response would be. Thoughts? Cheers, Clint From tvanry at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 11:40:02 2009 From: tvanry at gmail.com (Thad Van Ry) Date: Tue Jan 20 11:05:29 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Salt Lake Daytime LUG meetings was Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <38fc83270901201040j700a062cjed36d9d67815dfaa@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 11:25 AM, Clint Savage wrote: > I'm in the process of filling out the paperwork and just wanted to see > what the response would be. Thoughts? As I expressed previously, I'd be in support of this. Thad From mgonzalez at utah.gov Tue Jan 20 11:56:16 2009 From: mgonzalez at utah.gov (Martin Gonzalez) Date: Tue Jan 20 11:21:58 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Salt Lake Daytime LUG meetings was Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4975BB07.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> Sounds great! >>> "Clint Savage" 01/20/09 11:25 AM >>> So I've decided to take the ball on this one and see what the real interest is in something during the day. I've been wanting to help run a LUG for some time, so this seems like the perfect opportunity. My plan is to hold meetings from 11:30am-1pm on a Wednesday (probably the 2nd or 4th Wednesday) at the Salt Lake Public Library. I just got off the phone with the Library staff and they said that they make reservations in blocks of 9am-1pm and 2pm-6pm so I think the 9am-1pm block would work best, and get people back to work at a reasonable hour. I'm in the process of filling out the paperwork and just wanted to see what the response would be. Thoughts? Cheers, Clint ______________________________________________________________________ See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah sllug-members@sllug.org http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090120/6a9b180d/attachment.html From matt at frozenatom.com Tue Jan 20 12:23:52 2009 From: matt at frozenatom.com (Matt Nelson) Date: Tue Jan 20 11:49:19 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Salt Lake Daytime LUG meetings was Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <4975BB07.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> References: <4975BB07.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> Message-ID: <148f6bb30901201123x111a3b07t7df468013d1b3ebd@mail.gmail.com> Excellent! On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Martin Gonzalez wrote: > Sounds great! > > >>> "Clint Savage" 01/20/09 11:25 AM >>> > > So I've decided to take the ball on this one and see what the real > interest is in something during the day. I've been wanting to help > run a LUG for some time, so this seems like the perfect opportunity. > > My plan is to hold meetings from 11:30am-1pm on a Wednesday (probably > the 2nd or 4th Wednesday) at the Salt Lake Public Library. > > I just got off the phone with the Library staff and they said that > they make reservations in blocks of 9am-1pm and 2pm-6pm so I think the > 9am-1pm block would work best, and get people back to work at a > reasonable hour. > > I'm in the process of filling out the paperwork and just wanted to see > what the response would be. Thoughts? > > Cheers, > > Clint > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090120/38922147/attachment.htm From michael.g.petty at L-3com.com Tue Jan 20 12:33:22 2009 From: michael.g.petty at L-3com.com (michael.g.petty@L-3com.com) Date: Tue Jan 20 11:58:53 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Salt Lake Daytime LUG meetings was Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200901201233.22501.Michael.G.Petty@l-3com.com> I could even do this.... On Tuesday 20 January 2009, Clint Savage wrote: > So I've decided to take the ball on this one and see what the real > interest is in something during the day. I've been wanting to help > run a LUG for some time, so this seems like the perfect opportunity. > > My plan is to hold meetings from 11:30am-1pm on a Wednesday (probably > the 2nd or 4th Wednesday) at the Salt Lake Public Library. > > I just got off the phone with the Library staff and they said that > they make reservations in blocks of 9am-1pm and 2pm-6pm so I think the > 9am-1pm block would work best, and get people back to work at a > reasonable hour. > > I'm in the process of filling out the paperwork and just wanted to see > what the response would be. Thoughts? > > Cheers, > > Clint > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > From mgonzalez at utah.gov Tue Jan 20 12:38:35 2009 From: mgonzalez at utah.gov (Martin Gonzalez) Date: Tue Jan 20 12:04:23 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Salt Lake Daytime LUG meetings was Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4975C4F2.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> I already have a commitment with a NUI group that meets the last Wednesday of each month and would prefer a SLLUG meeting on the second Wednesday but, will abide by the group's decision. Thanks! >>> "Clint Savage" 01/20/09 11:25 AM >>> So I've decided to take the ball on this one and see what the real interest is in something during the day. I've been wanting to help run a LUG for some time, so this seems like the perfect opportunity. My plan is to hold meetings from 11:30am-1pm on a Wednesday (probably the 2nd or 4th Wednesday) at the Salt Lake Public Library. I just got off the phone with the Library staff and they said that they make reservations in blocks of 9am-1pm and 2pm-6pm so I think the 9am-1pm block would work best, and get people back to work at a reasonable hour. I'm in the process of filling out the paperwork and just wanted to see what the response would be. Thoughts? Cheers, Clint ______________________________________________________________________ See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah sllug-members@sllug.org http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090120/62b9e367/attachment.html From herlo1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 12:59:13 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Tue Jan 20 12:24:40 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Salt Lake Daytime LUG meetings was Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <4975C4F2.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> References: <4975C4F2.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Martin Gonzalez wrote: > I already have a commitment with a NUI group that meets the last Wednesday > of each month and would prefer a SLLUG meeting on the second Wednesday but, > will abide by the group's decision. Thanks! I was debating between the 1st and 2nd Wednesday. Anyone else have a preference? Cheers, Clint From dragen at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 13:16:00 2009 From: dragen at gmail.com (Adam Barrett) Date: Tue Jan 20 12:41:30 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Salt Lake Daytime LUG meetings was Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: References: <4975C4F2.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> Message-ID: <6902ba8e0901201216h31a4bf19we1de9db03f43f15c@mail.gmail.com> I'd attend. Doesn't matter which Wednesday to me. On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Clint Savage wrote: > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Martin Gonzalez wrote: >> I already have a commitment with a NUI group that meets the last Wednesday >> of each month and would prefer a SLLUG meeting on the second Wednesday but, >> will abide by the group's decision. Thanks! > > I was debating between the 1st and 2nd Wednesday. Anyone else have a > preference? > > Cheers, > > Clint > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- Adam Barrett dragen@gmail.com From chris.c.hogan at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 17:01:49 2009 From: chris.c.hogan at gmail.com (Christopher Hogan) Date: Tue Jan 20 16:27:18 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <49760B5D.7000203@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <79c119390901142256p6d398489o13ae74dd19bc7165@mail.gmail.com> <20090115153051.GA7094@uber> <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4970E32D.7050001@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1232142949.3348.9.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> <49760B5D.7000203@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <6977f2fc0901201601j5747aa09i1ca6cb6f7f3dadbb@mail.gmail.com> 4th and 1st quarter make it all but impossible for me to attend any weekday meetings, day or night. However, evening meetings work best (for me) for anything not directly involving work. On the other hand, with meeting times being discussed, weekends (day or night) would work even better for me. Chris On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Matt Warnock < mwarnock@ridgecrestherbals.com> wrote: > I can do it either way. Daytime has some advantages. > Martin Gonzalez wrote: > >> >> I would be interested in attending a SLLUG during the day. >> >> >>> "Thad Van Ry" 01/17/09 3:56 PM >>> >> Last Wednesday I attended the VMUG (VM ware User Group). This meeting >> was held during the day with a corporate sponsor (Cisco) who brought >> in lunch. In talking with other Linux admins where I work (LDS Church) >> some of them expressed an interest in coming to SLLUG, but, they >> couldn't swing it with prior commitments at night. >> >> What is the likely hood of holding SLLUG meetings during the day? How >> many people would be able to attend during the day? The VMUG only has >> a meeting once a quarter. I could definitely attend if the meetings >> were held during the day. Anyone else? >> >> Thad >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> >> > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090120/ea4197dd/attachment.html From jreverri at comcast.net Tue Jan 20 19:26:41 2009 From: jreverri at comcast.net (Jason R) Date: Tue Jan 20 18:52:14 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Salt Lake Daytime LUG meetings was Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <497687E1.2090602@comcast.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090120/788c0501/attachment.htm From sllug at vpxp.com Tue Jan 20 19:57:29 2009 From: sllug at vpxp.com (Chris Brown) Date: Tue Jan 20 19:23:04 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Salt Lake Daytime LUG meetings was Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <497687E1.2090602@comcast.net> References: <497687E1.2090602@comcast.net> Message-ID: <49768F19.3030907@vpxp.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090120/1db0ee6d/attachment-0001.html From marc at sllug.org Tue Jan 20 20:58:37 2009 From: marc at sllug.org (Marc Christensen) Date: Tue Jan 20 20:24:04 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Need laptop with nvidia card/working 3d support for meeting. Anyone got one? Message-ID: <49769D6D.8090604@sllug.org> Hey. I've been trying to get 3d support working with the laptop I borrowed from work. Unfortunately, it has and ATI graphics card and while I've got 3d support working, wine isn't happy with ATI drivers apparently and I only get a black screen when running Google Skethup 7. This seems to be a known issue with no real solution. It seems that NVidia cards are well supported in Wine so if you have a laptop with working 3d support and an NVidia card, I was wondering if you could bring it to the meeting. The latest development version of wine should be installed. If not, we'll just talk about wine and see if we can get some other programs running on it. I'd really like to demo sketchup if we can though. Thanks! -- Marc Christensen http://www.sllug.org From allen.schultz at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 22:37:00 2009 From: allen.schultz at gmail.com (Allen Schultz) Date: Tue Jan 20 22:02:34 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <6977f2fc0901201601j5747aa09i1ca6cb6f7f3dadbb@mail.gmail.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <20090115153051.GA7094@uber> <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4970E32D.7050001@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1232142949.3348.9.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> <49760B5D.7000203@ridgecrestherbals.com> <6977f2fc0901201601j5747aa09i1ca6cb6f7f3dadbb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3f34f8420901202137h7a6f134erefe24d37a2488bfb@mail.gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ok. For those who miss the meetings, either in the day or night time. Is there a way we can get those meetings recorded so we can get it to anyone who wants to view them at their leisure. The only downside for this is for those not participating in the actual meetings not getting in their word or questions in. Allen -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: http://getfiregpg.org iEYEARECAAYFAkl2tI8ACgkQBii+WJwtK7YXcACdG7aA3WQSDNwJPR6hQpGpgJvj 6kcAoIGU2H0Y094UnwLLFldCDDM49sR2 =6pxp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From u235sentinel at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 22:51:24 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Tue Jan 20 22:16:51 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <3f34f8420901202137h7a6f134erefe24d37a2488bfb@mail.gmail.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <20090115153051.GA7094@uber> <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4970E32D.7050001@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1232142949.3348.9.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> <49760B5D.7000203@ridgecrestherbals.com> <6977f2fc0901201601j5747aa09i1ca6cb6f7f3dadbb@mail.gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202137h7a6f134erefe24d37a2488bfb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4976B7DC.5070504@gmail.com> Allen Schultz wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Ok. For those who miss the meetings, either in the day or night time. > Is there a way we can get those meetings recorded so we can get it to > anyone who wants to view them at their leisure. The only downside for > this is for those not participating in the actual meetings not getting > in their word or questions in. > > Allen > That would be awesome just be careful you don't use more than 250 gigs if you have Concast. Video streaming is how I got into trouble with that Craptastic company. Thank God DSL came here. Oh and I'd be really happy to see these online. That would be awesome. From herlo1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 22:54:07 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Tue Jan 20 22:19:34 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <3f34f8420901202137h7a6f134erefe24d37a2488bfb@mail.gmail.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <4970D978.2030809@ridgecrestherbals.com> <4970E32D.7050001@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1232142949.3348.9.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> <49760B5D.7000203@ridgecrestherbals.com> <6977f2fc0901201601j5747aa09i1ca6cb6f7f3dadbb@mail.gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202137h7a6f134erefe24d37a2488bfb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 10:37 PM, Allen Schultz wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Ok. For those who miss the meetings, either in the day or night time. > Is there a way we can get those meetings recorded so we can get it to > anyone who wants to view them at their leisure. The only downside for > this is for those not participating in the actual meetings not getting > in their word or questions in. > > Allen Allen, I regularly record and stream these meetings. If you wish to listen to the meetings, they are usually up within a week or two after the meeting at http://podcast.utos.org. The stream is live and you can participate in IRC (#utos on irc.freenode.net) during the live stream, which is available at http://stream.utos.org:8080. I'll be there tomorrow recording so feel free to tune in. Cheers, Clint From herlo1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 22:55:22 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Tue Jan 20 22:20:49 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <4976B7DC.5070504@gmail.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <4970E32D.7050001@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1232142949.3348.9.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> <49760B5D.7000203@ridgecrestherbals.com> <6977f2fc0901201601j5747aa09i1ca6cb6f7f3dadbb@mail.gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202137h7a6f134erefe24d37a2488bfb@mail.gmail.com> <4976B7DC.5070504@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 10:51 PM, u235sentinel wrote: > Allen Schultz wrote: >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Ok. For those who miss the meetings, either in the day or night time. >> Is there a way we can get those meetings recorded so we can get it to >> anyone who wants to view them at their leisure. The only downside for >> this is for those not participating in the actual meetings not getting >> in their word or questions in. >> >> Allen >> > > That would be awesome just be careful you don't use more than 250 gigs if > you have Concast. Video streaming is how I got into trouble with that > Craptastic company. I should mention that video streaming is expensive on bandwidth and thus we currently only do audio streaming. Maybe in the future we'll have some video streams. Cheers, Clint From allen.schultz at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 22:56:47 2009 From: allen.schultz at gmail.com (Allen Schultz) Date: Tue Jan 20 22:22:14 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <4976B7DC.5070504@gmail.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <4970E32D.7050001@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1232142949.3348.9.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> <49760B5D.7000203@ridgecrestherbals.com> <6977f2fc0901201601j5747aa09i1ca6cb6f7f3dadbb@mail.gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202137h7a6f134erefe24d37a2488bfb@mail.gmail.com> <4976B7DC.5070504@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3f34f8420901202156n226c1764y3787e0996a663660@mail.gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Yes. I used to work with someone that goes over that limit legally downloading HD-DVD movies on a subscription daily. :) He has legalities on his side, he's hopeing when his "credited" internet ends, they don't push the limit on him again. Allen -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: http://getfiregpg.org iEYEARECAAYFAkl2uTYACgkQBii+WJwtK7aQswCfWi5n1LmU9M9LLkTOzHbCnI2x YBgAn3lULJ8gVtkbNQUdnTLW3J1rxLRq =FetB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From allen.schultz at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 22:58:18 2009 From: allen.schultz at gmail.com (Allen Schultz) Date: Tue Jan 20 22:23:45 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <1232142949.3348.9.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> <49760B5D.7000203@ridgecrestherbals.com> <6977f2fc0901201601j5747aa09i1ca6cb6f7f3dadbb@mail.gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202137h7a6f134erefe24d37a2488bfb@mail.gmail.com> <4976B7DC.5070504@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3f34f8420901202158j620ce7e8g7a3983cc9134c999@mail.gmail.com> By tomorrow, you mean during the Linux Conference at the Hotel? From herlo1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 23:01:50 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Tue Jan 20 22:27:16 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <3f34f8420901202158j620ce7e8g7a3983cc9134c999@mail.gmail.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> <49760B5D.7000203@ridgecrestherbals.com> <6977f2fc0901201601j5747aa09i1ca6cb6f7f3dadbb@mail.gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202137h7a6f134erefe24d37a2488bfb@mail.gmail.com> <4976B7DC.5070504@gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202158j620ce7e8g7a3983cc9134c999@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Allen Schultz wrote: > By tomorrow, you mean during the Linux Conference at the Hotel? > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > There's a Linux Conference at a Hotel tomorrow? I thought that I was referring to the fact that the SLLUG meeting is tomorrow night at 7:10pm. http://sllug.org <-- first post :) Cheers, Clint From kd7nyq at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 23:04:06 2009 From: kd7nyq at gmail.com (Andrew Jackman) Date: Tue Jan 20 22:29:32 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <3f34f8420901202158j620ce7e8g7a3983cc9134c999@mail.gmail.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> <49760B5D.7000203@ridgecrestherbals.com> <6977f2fc0901201601j5747aa09i1ca6cb6f7f3dadbb@mail.gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202137h7a6f134erefe24d37a2488bfb@mail.gmail.com> <4976B7DC.5070504@gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202158j620ce7e8g7a3983cc9134c999@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <79c119390901202204l6c2f35d0lab13c71aadbb7839@mail.gmail.com> Is there any way the LUG could get sponsorship providing rack space or bandwidth, providing the streams, etc? Jackman. On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 10:58 PM, Allen Schultz wrote: > By tomorrow, you mean during the Linux Conference at the Hotel? > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Tue Jan 20 23:08:27 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Tue Jan 20 22:34:01 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <3f34f8420901202158j620ce7e8g7a3983cc9134c999@mail.gmail.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <1232142949.3348.9.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> <148f6bb30901170815h4a0998ecra8bd8f7b1bcba14c@mail.gmail.com> <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> <49760B5D.7000203@ridgecrestherbals.com> <6977f2fc0901201601j5747aa09i1ca6cb6f7f3dadbb@mail.gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202137h7a6f134erefe24d37a2488bfb@mail.gmail.com> <4976B7DC.5070504@gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202158j620ce7e8g7a3983cc9134c999@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4976BBDB.5050901@ridgecrestherbals.com> Allen Schultz wrote: > By tomorrow, you mean during the Linux Conference at the Hotel? > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > Wasn't that the 28th, not tomorrow? I assume he means tomorrow night at SLLUG. From herlo1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 23:15:48 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Tue Jan 20 22:41:13 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <79c119390901202204l6c2f35d0lab13c71aadbb7839@mail.gmail.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> <49760B5D.7000203@ridgecrestherbals.com> <6977f2fc0901201601j5747aa09i1ca6cb6f7f3dadbb@mail.gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202137h7a6f134erefe24d37a2488bfb@mail.gmail.com> <4976B7DC.5070504@gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202158j620ce7e8g7a3983cc9134c999@mail.gmail.com> <79c119390901202204l6c2f35d0lab13c71aadbb7839@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Andrew Jackman wrote: > Is there any way the LUG could get sponsorship providing rack space or > bandwidth, providing the streams, etc? > > Jackman. What do you mean? The streams are sponsored by Tier Four from Utah Open Source. Utah Open Source provides all of this at no cost and is happy to do it. We're here to support the LUGs in Utah, that is our goal. I'm not sure what you are trying to say, could you clarify? Cheers, Clint From allen.schultz at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 23:18:19 2009 From: allen.schultz at gmail.com (Allen Schultz) Date: Tue Jan 20 22:43:46 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <4976BBDB.5050901@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <38fc83270901171456t1ebcecfme27852ac7087301a@mail.gmail.com> <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> <49760B5D.7000203@ridgecrestherbals.com> <6977f2fc0901201601j5747aa09i1ca6cb6f7f3dadbb@mail.gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202137h7a6f134erefe24d37a2488bfb@mail.gmail.com> <4976B7DC.5070504@gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202158j620ce7e8g7a3983cc9134c999@mail.gmail.com> <4976BBDB.5050901@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <3f34f8420901202218t47df36a9t503d08498b9b27d8@mail.gmail.com> I'm sorry. Just checked the date again. It is the 28th. From kd7nyq at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 23:21:41 2009 From: kd7nyq at gmail.com (Andrew Jackman) Date: Tue Jan 20 22:47:08 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> <49760B5D.7000203@ridgecrestherbals.com> <6977f2fc0901201601j5747aa09i1ca6cb6f7f3dadbb@mail.gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202137h7a6f134erefe24d37a2488bfb@mail.gmail.com> <4976B7DC.5070504@gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202158j620ce7e8g7a3983cc9134c999@mail.gmail.com> <79c119390901202204l6c2f35d0lab13c71aadbb7839@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <79c119390901202221i304b2dc6k7f53878509c30b8c@mail.gmail.com> "I should mention that video streaming is expensive on bandwidth and thus we currently only do audio streaming. Maybe in the future we'll have some video streams." The above statement gave me the impression that our current resources were prohibitive, so now I'm a little confused. Does the LUG have the resources to do the video downloads/streams or no? Jackman. On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 11:15 PM, Clint Savage wrote: > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 11:04 PM, Andrew Jackman wrote: >> Is there any way the LUG could get sponsorship providing rack space or >> bandwidth, providing the streams, etc? >> >> Jackman. > > What do you mean? The streams are sponsored by Tier Four from Utah > Open Source. Utah Open Source provides all of this at no cost and is > happy to do it. We're here to support the LUGs in Utah, that is our > goal. > > I'm not sure what you are trying to say, could you clarify? > > Cheers, > > Clint > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From herlo1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 23:22:21 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Tue Jan 20 22:47:47 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <3f34f8420901202218t47df36a9t503d08498b9b27d8@mail.gmail.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <49756A53.9C6C.0040.0@utah.gov> <49760B5D.7000203@ridgecrestherbals.com> <6977f2fc0901201601j5747aa09i1ca6cb6f7f3dadbb@mail.gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202137h7a6f134erefe24d37a2488bfb@mail.gmail.com> <4976B7DC.5070504@gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202158j620ce7e8g7a3983cc9134c999@mail.gmail.com> <4976BBDB.5050901@ridgecrestherbals.com> <3f34f8420901202218t47df36a9t503d08498b9b27d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 11:18 PM, Allen Schultz wrote: > I'm sorry. Just checked the date again. It is the 28th. The date for what? SLLUG meeting is tomorrow. Linux Day is on the 28th. Two separate events :) I'm streaming SLLUG tomorrow, I'm guessing we can't stream Linux Day as it's controlled by Novell. I guess we could ask :) Cheers, Clint From herlo1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 20 23:32:48 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Tue Jan 20 22:58:15 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings In-Reply-To: <79c119390901202221i304b2dc6k7f53878509c30b8c@mail.gmail.com> References: <496CBB6E.4000005@sllug.org> <49760B5D.7000203@ridgecrestherbals.com> <6977f2fc0901201601j5747aa09i1ca6cb6f7f3dadbb@mail.gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202137h7a6f134erefe24d37a2488bfb@mail.gmail.com> <4976B7DC.5070504@gmail.com> <3f34f8420901202158j620ce7e8g7a3983cc9134c999@mail.gmail.com> <79c119390901202204l6c2f35d0lab13c71aadbb7839@mail.gmail.com> <79c119390901202221i304b2dc6k7f53878509c30b8c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 11:21 PM, Andrew Jackman wrote: > "I should mention that video streaming is expensive on bandwidth and > thus we currently only do audio streaming. Maybe in the future we'll > have some video streams." > > The above statement gave me the impression that our current resources > were prohibitive, so now I'm a little confused. Does the LUG have the > resources to do the video downloads/streams or no? All the above statement implies is that video streaming bandwidth is cost prohibitive to the average user at home. As far as the technology and know-how, it's possible today. Unfortunately, there are little resources to purchase the equipment to record and stream video. Most of the time, attending a LUG meeting means that we'll have little to no guarantee of good bandwidth. Because SLLUG has their meetings at the U, we can be pretty sure the network can handle the stream. UTOS is an independent organization from any Utah LUG, but we are here to support them all. Therefore, we archive and license the recordings we make from all Utah LUGs as open as possible. SLLUG as far as I know, doesn't have any equipment to provide recordings. UTOS provides this service free of charge and currently only does audio recording. There is plans in the future for screencast and picture-in-picture video streaming, but it's still a little ways off due to restraints of cash, time and resources. If you'd like to contribute in any way to the UTOS vision of streaming, we'd love to have these resources. I will say that technically, SLLUG can take monies from individuals to do these things, but I anticipate that the leaders of the group are busy individuals and don't have much more time than setting up a topic each month. I could be wrong of course. Anyway, the point here is that UTOS is already doing this recording/streaming and would love some help. Feel free to collaborate and/or provide resources to help us make this a better way to share the LUG experience. Cheers, Clint From marc at sllug.org Wed Jan 21 07:51:34 2009 From: marc at sllug.org (Marc Christensen) Date: Wed Jan 21 07:17:03 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: SLLUG meeting: Wed. Jan 21, 2009: Google Sketchup 7 running on Wine demo In-Reply-To: <4976026A.7060702@sllug.org> References: <4976026A.7060702@sllug.org> Message-ID: <49773676.3080902@sllug.org> Hey, just letting people know that if I can't find a laptop with an nvidia chipset, I'll demo using GPSs on Linux and talk about gpsbabel, gpicsync and Google Earth instead of talking about Google Sketchup on Wine. Either way, this meeting tonight will be a blast! Oh I also have openSUSE 11.1 DVDs to give out. See you there!!!! -- Marc Christensen http://www.sllug.org Marc Christensen wrote: > Hey all, > > I'll be giving a short presentation and demo of Google Sketchup 7 > running on Wine. (if I can get it working on the laptop I'm borrowing > from work. If that fails, we'll talk about some other Linux tips and > tricks. So, bring your tips and tricks to share and cross your fingers > on the wine/sketchup demo! Should be tons of fun! We'll watch some of > the demo videos for Sketchup as well. > > http://sketchup.google.com/ > http://www.winehq.org/ > > Time/Date: > ---------- > Wednesday, January 21, 2008 > 7:10pm p.m. > > Place: > ---------- > Room 101 in Lower Warnock Engineering Building > > Directions/Parking: > Directions - [http://www.map.utah.edu/index.jsp?find=62] > Parking can be found just East of the WEB building and there is a big > lot just North of the Merrill Engineering building (MEB). > Parking is free after 6:00 (Based on the signs posted. Always check in > case this changes.) > > Special thanks go to: > - U of U for providing the meeting room. > - Various Volunteers From herlo1 at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 08:12:33 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Wed Jan 21 07:37:58 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: SLLUG meeting: Wed. Jan 21, 2009: Google Sketchup 7 running on Wine demo In-Reply-To: <49773676.3080902@sllug.org> References: <4976026A.7060702@sllug.org> <49773676.3080902@sllug.org> Message-ID: > Oh I also have openSUSE 11.1 DVDs to give out. See you there!!!! Marc, Thanks for the reminder, I'll bring some Fedora 10 LiveCDs tonight as well. Cheers, Clint From marc at sllug.org Wed Jan 21 08:35:40 2009 From: marc at sllug.org (Marc Christensen) Date: Wed Jan 21 08:01:06 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: SLLUG meeting: Wed. Jan 21, 2009: Google Sketchup 7 running on Wine demo In-Reply-To: References: <4976026A.7060702@sllug.org> <49773676.3080902@sllug.org> Message-ID: <497740CC.6000402@sllug.org> Clint Savage wrote: >> Oh I also have openSUSE 11.1 DVDs to give out. See you there!!!! > > Marc, > > Thanks for the reminder, I'll bring some Fedora 10 LiveCDs tonight as well. > > Cheers, > > Clint That will be awesome! Thanks! -- Marc Christensen http://www.sllug.org From acousticism at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 09:38:55 2009 From: acousticism at gmail.com (Jordan Jones) Date: Wed Jan 21 09:04:43 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Re: Post your ideas for 2009 SLLUG meetings Message-ID: <6a6436d10901210838x107030fbkbd778b267f7ec261@mail.gmail.com> It would be great to hear more about Linux being used for music creation. There are many great and powerful applications currently available (Qtractor, Hydrogen, Pure Data, Super Looper, etc.) that outperform most everything I have seen or worked with on any OS. The only downside is that these systems are not so "user friendly". If anyone else enjoys making music, it would be great to get their input on how to make Linux music applications more accessible to anyone who wishes to use it. Cheers, Jordan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090121/8f94b64f/attachment-0001.htm From bob.l.lewis at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 12:17:29 2009 From: bob.l.lewis at gmail.com (Robert Lewis) Date: Wed Jan 21 11:43:09 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.1 fans Message-ID: <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> Anyone out there using KDE 4.1 ? Do you like it? I have it running here and am getting myself into trouble with it. If you are using it and feel fluent I would like to ask you some questions. Cheers, Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090121/a9d17cab/attachment.html From thatch45 at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 12:26:32 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Wed Jan 21 11:52:00 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.1 fans In-Reply-To: <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> References: <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6172c17e0901211126t11c75445k6a2dad762f3c8439@mail.gmail.com> I am running 4.2 RC1 right now on ArchLinux, it is a HUGE improvement. But fire away and I will see what I can do -Tom On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Robert Lewis wrote: > Anyone out there using KDE 4.1 ? > > Do you like it? > > I have it running here and am getting myself into trouble with it. > > If you are using it and feel fluent I would like to ask you some questions. > > Cheers, > Bob > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090121/30b5f75d/attachment.htm From jeff at zingstudios.com Wed Jan 21 12:32:18 2009 From: jeff at zingstudios.com (Jeff Schroeder) Date: Wed Jan 21 11:58:06 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.1 fans In-Reply-To: <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> References: <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200901211232.20781.jeff@zingstudios.com> Robert asked: > Anyone out there using KDE 4.1 ? > > Do you like it? I tried it-- like any KDE fanboy would-- and was disappointed. I'm back to 3.5.10 and waiting for 4.x to catch up and give me the functionality I need. :-( > I have it running here and am getting myself into trouble with it. That was exactly my problem. I was very frustrated to find that many of the little tweaks and customizations I've grown used to over the years don't exist (yet?) in 4. There are apps I use daily that aren't ported yet, and others that seem to crash randomly. Moreover, I'm using older hardware which handles 3.5 fine but seems to really struggle with the flashy effects in 4. It's too bad, but I'm hopeful that continued development will bring 4 on par and I'll finally be able to move forward. $0.02, Jeff -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090121/ca341ef4/attachment.pgp From mark.s.levitt at L-3com.com Wed Jan 21 13:02:15 2009 From: mark.s.levitt at L-3com.com (mark.s.levitt@L-3com.com) Date: Wed Jan 21 12:27:46 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: RE: KDE 4.1 fans (Robert Lewis) In-Reply-To: <200901211901.n0LJ12nY029694@sllug.org> References: <200901211901.n0LJ12nY029694@sllug.org> Message-ID: <06585430478E1D418B54779AFABA24D307BA21@MAIL2.csw.l-3com.com> I had been using KDE from mostly stock debian - I'm addicted to the KDE keyboard-enabled UI. I have recently loaded kubuntu 8.10 and had several issues, particularly with it's wifi management but have managed to work around that. I'm disappointed with some of the keyboard shortcut handling and don't like some of the UI changes, but haven't given up (yet?). I'm not sure if the keyboard issues I'm seeing are impacting my use of vmware - anyone else using the vmware player on (k)ubuntu ... and liking it? Mark > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:17:29 -0800 > From: Robert Lewis > Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.1 fans > To: Salt Lake Linux Users Group Discussions > Message-ID: > <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Anyone out there using KDE 4.1 ? > > Do you like it? > > I have it running here and am getting myself into trouble with it. > > If you are using it and feel fluent I would like to ask you some > questions. > > Cheers, > Bob From kmahan at xmission.com Wed Jan 21 13:23:57 2009 From: kmahan at xmission.com (Kurt Mahan) Date: Wed Jan 21 12:49:23 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.1 fans In-Reply-To: <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> References: <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4977845D.8050704@xmission.com> Robert Lewis wrote: > Anyone out there using KDE 4.1 ? I've been using it on one machine (while still using 3.5 on my main development box). It is tough to get used to. It seems like a lot of functionality I liked has been removed or hidden. Especially with the panel. I'm not a fan of the new Konsole. This page had some good suggestions: http://userbase.kde.org/Tutorials/KDE3toKDE4 --Kurt > > Do you like it? > > I have it running here and am getting myself into trouble with it. > > If you are using it and feel fluent I would like to ask you some > questions. > > Cheers, > Bob > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From kmahan at xmission.com Wed Jan 21 13:26:45 2009 From: kmahan at xmission.com (Kurt Mahan) Date: Wed Jan 21 12:52:14 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: RE: KDE 4.1 fans (Robert Lewis) In-Reply-To: <06585430478E1D418B54779AFABA24D307BA21@MAIL2.csw.l-3com.com> References: <200901211901.n0LJ12nY029694@sllug.org> <06585430478E1D418B54779AFABA24D307BA21@MAIL2.csw.l-3com.com> Message-ID: <49778505.7030801@xmission.com> Speaking of KDE keyboard shortcuts -- In 4.1 how do you configure the CTRL-Fx keys to switch desktops? In 3.5 I have the usual "CTRL-F1 to desktop 1, etc.." I haven't found a place to configure that in 4.1. --Kurt mark.s.levitt@l-3com.com wrote: > I had been using KDE from mostly stock debian - I'm addicted to the KDE > keyboard-enabled UI. I have recently loaded kubuntu 8.10 and had > several issues, particularly with it's wifi management but have managed > to work around that. I'm disappointed with some of the keyboard > shortcut handling and don't like some of the UI changes, but haven't > given up (yet?). > > I'm not sure if the keyboard issues I'm seeing are impacting my use of > vmware - anyone else using the vmware player on (k)ubuntu ... and liking > it? > > Mark > > >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:17:29 -0800 >> From: Robert Lewis >> Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.1 fans >> To: Salt Lake Linux Users Group Discussions >> Message-ID: >> <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Anyone out there using KDE 4.1 ? >> >> Do you like it? >> >> I have it running here and am getting myself into trouble with it. >> >> If you are using it and feel fluent I would like to ask you some >> questions. >> >> Cheers, >> Bob >> > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From remo at italy1.com Fri Jan 2 17:45:49 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (Remo Mattei) Date: Wed Jan 21 13:58:32 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: 2U case (OT) In-Reply-To: <148f6bb30901021406lec91113k262227661620c8e9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0034.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 700768 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090103/d1706d51/IMG_0034.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0035.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 743773 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090103/d1706d51/IMG_0035.jpe -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG_0036.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 640900 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090103/d1706d51/IMG_0036.jpe From sjansen at buscaluz.org Wed Jan 21 15:17:28 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Wed Jan 21 14:43:25 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: 2U case (OT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1232576248.3518.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 18:19 -0700, Remo Mattei wrote: > Here is a similar one without powersupply it goes for $86 I would like > to get about $100 since it comes with powersupply. > Looks like your message spent a long time in the moderation queue. That's because spamming all of us with giant image files is rude. A URL or private message would have been more appropriate. Personally, if I were moderator, I would have just bounced the message. -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From zspecialk at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 15:29:00 2009 From: zspecialk at gmail.com (Scott K) Date: Wed Jan 21 14:54:28 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: 2U case (OT) In-Reply-To: <1232576248.3518.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1232576248.3518.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <90cf3c3d0901211429r6b658e0bw489c528df10fc7c4@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Stuart Jansen wrote: > Looks like your message spent a long time in the moderation queue. > That's because spamming all of us with giant image files is rude. A URL > or private message would have been more appropriate. > > Personally, if I were moderator, I would have just bounced the message. I could have sworn the last time I tried sending something large (an MBR fixer?) it bounced me for just barely going over the 1kb limit. If I were the moderator, I wouldn't even want to waste time on large files. Maybe that limit should go back, so people who think they have a legitimate reason to send large amounts of data will be creative enough to find other places on the web to share it. Scott From remo at italy1.com Wed Jan 21 15:28:57 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (Remo Mattei) Date: Wed Jan 21 14:54:40 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: 2U case (OT) In-Reply-To: <1232576248.3518.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: I just added a link. Hope you will become the moderator then. Good luck. My 2 cents. Remo Stuart Jansen On 1/21/09 3:17 PM, "Stuart Jansen" wrote: > On Fri, 2009-01-02 at 18:19 -0700, Remo Mattei wrote: >> Here is a similar one without powersupply it goes for $86 I would like >> to get about $100 since it comes with powersupply. >> > Looks like your message spent a long time in the moderation queue. > That's because spamming all of us with giant image files is rude. A URL > or private message would have been more appropriate. > > Personally, if I were moderator, I would have just bounced the message. From remo at italy1.com Wed Jan 21 15:35:07 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (Remo Mattei) Date: Wed Jan 21 15:00:38 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: 2U case (OT) In-Reply-To: <90cf3c3d0901211429r6b658e0bw489c528df10fc7c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dude it was nothing attached. It was a link. And personally I think that's it for my part. Adding rules not want to deal with you again. Scott K On 1/21/09 3:29 PM, "Scott K" wrote: > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Stuart Jansen wrote: >> Looks like your message spent a long time in the moderation queue. >> That's because spamming all of us with giant image files is rude. A URL >> or private message would have been more appropriate. >> >> Personally, if I were moderator, I would have just bounced the message. > > I could have sworn the last time I tried sending something large (an > MBR fixer?) it bounced me for just barely going over the 1kb limit. If > I were the moderator, I wouldn't even want to waste time on large > files. Maybe that limit should go back, so people who think they have > a legitimate reason to send large amounts of data will be creative > enough to find other places on the web to share it. > > Scott > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > !DSPAM:4977a29d29617606517538! > From kmahan at xmission.com Wed Jan 21 15:38:21 2009 From: kmahan at xmission.com (Kurt Mahan) Date: Wed Jan 21 15:03:50 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: RE: KDE 4.1 fans (Robert Lewis) In-Reply-To: <200901211516.50576.kevin@codegreene.com> References: <200901211901.n0LJ12nY029694@sllug.org> <06585430478E1D418B54779AFABA24D307BA21@MAIL2.csw.l-3com.com> <49778505.7030801@xmission.com> <200901211516.50576.kevin@codegreene.com> Message-ID: <4977A3DD.90205@xmission.com> Kevin wrote: > On Wednesday 21 January 2009 1:26:45 pm Kurt Mahan wrote: > >> Speaking of KDE keyboard shortcuts -- >> >> In 4.1 how do you configure the CTRL-Fx keys to switch desktops? In 3.5 >> I have the usual "CTRL-F1 to desktop 1, etc.." I haven't found a place >> to configure that in 4.1. >> > > System Settings -> Keyboard & Mouse -> Keyboard Shortcuts -> Kwin dropdown. > Thanks! --Kurt From stevehildebrand757 at yahoo.com Wed Jan 21 15:40:35 2009 From: stevehildebrand757 at yahoo.com (Steve Hildebrand) Date: Wed Jan 21 15:06:09 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.1 fans References: <200901211901.n0LJ0r8A029685@sllug.org> Message-ID: <577226.83641.qm@web90406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I was in the same position with Kubuntu a short time ago. Window manager settings didn't seem to be updating in Firefox and X-Chat, so I decided to go to 4.1 instead, as I had read a few things regarding 4.0 that may have been the cause. I was unable to determine the version I was using with certainty, but I figured it would alert me if I already had 4.1. Started the upgrade, everything seemed fine, until a dependency broke. Well, by that time, most of it had been installed, and the parts that were installed appear to have included some kdm stuff, because on a re-boot, the whole thing died. I copied stuff out of /home with a live disc, re-partitioned for the OS and a /home drive, then re-installed Ubuntu 8.10 with gdm instead. I haven't looked back since. I really groove on KDE and all, but GNOME is pretty slick, and I don't have to set up everything on my desktop as a widget, which was getting on my nerves. The interface wasn't what I liked either, though pretty, and the various bits and bobs were just too much of a hassle. Now that Vista is on it's way out, someone on the KDE team might convince the others to go back to a simple interface like 3.5, but I doubt it. I doubt I will be going back to KDE, honestly. I know I said before that I didn't want to use a different windows manager, but I have been converted. :) Sorry, I know that doesn't really answer the question, other than my suggestion to go with GNOME if things start getting out of hand. I may install Kubuntu or Mandriva on a separate partition at some point, but it really isn't a priority. Good Luck, though! ________________________________ From: "sllug-members-request@sllug.org" To: sllug-members@sllug.org Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:00:54 PM Subject: sllug-members Digest, Vol 53, Issue 29 Send sllug-members mailing list submissions to sllug-members@sllug.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to sllug-members-request@sllug.org You can reach the person managing the list at sllug-members-owner@sllug.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of sllug-members digest..." Today's Topics: 1. KDE 4.1 fans (Robert Lewis) 2. Re: KDE 4.1 fans (Thomas S Hatch) 3. Re: KDE 4.1 fans (Jeff Schroeder) Anyone out there using KDE 4.1 ? Do you like it? I have it running here and am getting myself into trouble with it. If you are using it and feel fluent I would like to ask you some questions. Cheers, Bob I am running 4.2 RC1 right now on ArchLinux, it is a HUGE improvement. But fire away and I will see what I can do -Tom On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Robert Lewis wrote: Anyone out there using KDE 4.1 ? Do you like it? I have it running here and am getting myself into trouble with it. If you are using it and feel fluent I would like to ask you some questions. Cheers, Bob ______________________________________________________________________ See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah sllug-members@sllug.org http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members ______________________________________________________________________ See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah sllug-members@sllug.org http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090121/67ef6f4b/attachment.htm From jared.bernard at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 15:51:51 2009 From: jared.bernard at gmail.com (Jared Bernard) Date: Wed Jan 21 15:21:20 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: RE: KDE 4.1 fans In-Reply-To: <06585430478E1D418B54779AFABA24D307BA21@MAIL2.csw.l-3com.com> References: <200901211901.n0LJ12nY029694@sllug.org> <06585430478E1D418B54779AFABA24D307BA21@MAIL2.csw.l-3com.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, 21 Jan 2009, mark.s.levitt@l-3com.com wrote: >I have recently loaded kubuntu 8.10 and had > several issues, particularly with it's wifi management but have managed > to work around that. Just on a side note. I have found that Mandriva and OpenSuse have a better implementations of KDE4 then Kubuntu, or so it seems to me. Jared Bernard "Don't Fear the Penguin!" http://bernard-fam.blogspot.com http://mostlycli.blogspot.com http://www.jaredandcoralee.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFJd6cKcEiH4kiKkQgRAgtXAKDWrOTEszcZ8G1kJ1nxp75aDPP5jQCgsThb LaUXV3EJL818hVds4pMMAys= =CVSC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dtbeattie at gmail.com Wed Jan 21 18:27:22 2009 From: dtbeattie at gmail.com (Daren Beattie) Date: Wed Jan 21 17:52:47 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.1 fans In-Reply-To: <4977845D.8050704@xmission.com> References: <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> <4977845D.8050704@xmission.com> Message-ID: <5f8bc3fb0901211727u4e237264k50294a2aad0a7b53@mail.gmail.com> I'm using it on 2 Debian boxes and haven't had much trouble at all with the 4.1 series. Like Mr. Hatch says, post any concerns and we'll take a gander. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090121/15eb2621/attachment.html From kmahan at xmission.com Wed Jan 21 18:38:18 2009 From: kmahan at xmission.com (Kurt Mahan) Date: Wed Jan 21 18:03:50 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.1 fans In-Reply-To: <5f8bc3fb0901211727u4e237264k50294a2aad0a7b53@mail.gmail.com> References: <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> <4977845D.8050704@xmission.com> <5f8bc3fb0901211727u4e237264k50294a2aad0a7b53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4977CE0A.1080504@xmission.com> Daren Beattie wrote: > I'm using it on 2 Debian boxes and haven't had much trouble at all > with the 4.1 series. > Like Mr. Hatch says, post any concerns and we'll take a gander. Is there a way in 4.1 (like 3.5) to customize the backgrounds of each individual desktop? Also, are the background non-picture options available? On my 3.5 desktops I have each desktop configured with Elliptic Gradient and the FG color different based on the desktop number. --Kurt From kevin at codegreene.com Wed Jan 21 15:16:50 2009 From: kevin at codegreene.com (Kevin) Date: Thu Jan 22 08:41:41 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: RE: KDE 4.1 fans (Robert Lewis) In-Reply-To: <49778505.7030801@xmission.com> References: <200901211901.n0LJ12nY029694@sllug.org> <06585430478E1D418B54779AFABA24D307BA21@MAIL2.csw.l-3com.com> <49778505.7030801@xmission.com> Message-ID: <200901211516.50576.kevin@codegreene.com> On Wednesday 21 January 2009 1:26:45 pm Kurt Mahan wrote: > Speaking of KDE keyboard shortcuts -- > > In 4.1 how do you configure the CTRL-Fx keys to switch desktops? In 3.5 > I have the usual "CTRL-F1 to desktop 1, etc.." I haven't found a place > to configure that in 4.1. System Settings -> Keyboard & Mouse -> Keyboard Shortcuts -> Kwin dropdown. > > --Kurt > > mark.s.levitt@l-3com.com wrote: > > I had been using KDE from mostly stock debian - I'm addicted to the KDE > > keyboard-enabled UI. I have recently loaded kubuntu 8.10 and had > > several issues, particularly with it's wifi management but have managed > > to work around that. I'm disappointed with some of the keyboard > > shortcut handling and don't like some of the UI changes, but haven't > > given up (yet?). > > > > I'm not sure if the keyboard issues I'm seeing are impacting my use of > > vmware - anyone else using the vmware player on (k)ubuntu ... and liking > > it? > > > > Mark > > > >> Message: 1 > >> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:17:29 -0800 > >> From: Robert Lewis > >> Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.1 fans > >> To: Salt Lake Linux Users Group Discussions > >> Message-ID: > >> <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >> > >> Anyone out there using KDE 4.1 ? > >> > >> Do you like it? > >> > >> I have it running here and am getting myself into trouble with it. > >> > >> If you are using it and feel fluent I would like to ask you some > >> questions. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Bob > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members From kevin at codegreene.com Wed Jan 21 15:29:09 2009 From: kevin at codegreene.com (Kevin) Date: Thu Jan 22 08:41:42 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.1 fans In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0901211126t11c75445k6a2dad762f3c8439@mail.gmail.com> References: <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0901211126t11c75445k6a2dad762f3c8439@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200901211529.09603.kevin@codegreene.com> I've been running 4.1 since it came out and I'm now running 4.2 rc1. 4.2 is much better and seems like the release that is general public ready, I've been happy with 4.x in general. There have been some rough edges but things are improving with every release. 4.2 final is scheduled to release Jan 27. So maybe sit tight and wait for that release. -Kevin- On Wednesday 21 January 2009 12:26:32 pm Thomas S Hatch wrote: > I am running 4.2 RC1 right now on ArchLinux, it is a HUGE improvement. But > fire away and I will see what I can do > > -Tom > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Robert Lewis wrote: > > Anyone out there using KDE 4.1 ? > > > > Do you like it? > > > > I have it running here and am getting myself into trouble with it. > > > > If you are using it and feel fluent I would like to ask you some > > questions. > > > > Cheers, > > Bob > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members From herlo1 at gmail.com Thu Jan 22 11:50:03 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Thu Jan 22 11:15:31 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Meeting Audio online Message-ID: So I couldn't sleep last night. Thus I took the audio from Marc's discussion on GPS with Linux and posted it online. If you are interested in listening to the discussion (I missed the first couple minutes due to a network timeout), you can download it (and any other podcast you might be interested in) at http://podcast.utos.org Cheers, Clint From rll123 at sbcglobal.net Thu Jan 22 18:43:14 2009 From: rll123 at sbcglobal.net (Robert Lewis) Date: Thu Jan 22 18:08:47 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Seagate Posts Hard Drive Fix -- Storage -- InformationWeek Message-ID: <497920B2.50406@sbcglobal.net> http://www.informationweek.com/news/storage/systems/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=212902034&subSection=News From fyyht at punchcutter.ml1.net Thu Jan 22 19:23:45 2009 From: fyyht at punchcutter.ml1.net (David J Iannucci) Date: Thu Jan 22 18:49:10 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: 2U case (OT) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1232677425.14056.1296288407@webmail.messagingengine.com> > Dude it was nothing attached. It was a link. And personally I think > that's it for my part. Adding rules not want to deal with you again. Erm, no... it was 2.7MB of attachments, actually. I've got it right here to prove it. Dave From jeffquiparle at gmail.com Fri Jan 23 15:53:08 2009 From: jeffquiparle at gmail.com (Jeff Shipley) Date: Fri Jan 23 15:18:33 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.1 fans In-Reply-To: <200901211529.09603.kevin@codegreene.com> References: <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0901211126t11c75445k6a2dad762f3c8439@mail.gmail.com> <200901211529.09603.kevin@codegreene.com> Message-ID: I think that there's some sort of round object up in the corner of the screen you can use to customize the background. I wish that gnome's multi-monitor wallpaper support was as good as KDE's... It pretty much doesn't exist. On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Kevin wrote: > I've been running 4.1 since it came out and I'm now running 4.2 rc1. 4.2 is > much better and seems like the release that is general public ready, I've been > happy with 4.x in general. There have been some rough edges but things are > improving with every release. > > 4.2 final is scheduled to release Jan 27. So maybe sit tight and wait for that > release. > > -Kevin- > > On Wednesday 21 January 2009 12:26:32 pm Thomas S Hatch wrote: >> I am running 4.2 RC1 right now on ArchLinux, it is a HUGE improvement. But >> fire away and I will see what I can do >> >> -Tom >> >> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Robert Lewis wrote: >> > Anyone out there using KDE 4.1 ? >> > >> > Do you like it? >> > >> > I have it running here and am getting myself into trouble with it. >> > >> > If you are using it and feel fluent I would like to ask you some >> > questions. >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Bob >> > >> > ______________________________________________________________________ >> > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> > sllug-members@sllug.org >> > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From bob.l.lewis at gmail.com Sat Jan 24 11:05:21 2009 From: bob.l.lewis at gmail.com (Robert Lewis) Date: Sat Jan 24 10:30:57 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.1 fans In-Reply-To: <200901211529.09603.kevin@codegreene.com> References: <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0901211126t11c75445k6a2dad762f3c8439@mail.gmail.com> <200901211529.09603.kevin@codegreene.com> Message-ID: <86d2b63e0901241005v76d5abcaj8bb18de1990de17f@mail.gmail.com> Hi Kevin: Sorry for the delay in responding, life gets in the way sometimes. Questions: I would like to get 4.2 on the 27th. 1) Will SUSE have it ready for d/l on the 27th? 2) What repository should I be pointing to on SUSE to fetch it? I currently have: OpenSUSE BuildService - KDE:Community OpenSUSEBuildService - KDE:Backports Or will it come up automatically as a update? Cheers, Bob --- On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Kevin wrote: > I've been running 4.1 since it came out and I'm now running 4.2 rc1. 4.2 is > much better and seems like the release that is general public ready, I've > been > happy with 4.x in general. There have been some rough edges but things are > improving with every release. > > 4.2 final is scheduled to release Jan 27. So maybe sit tight and wait for > that > release. > > -Kevin- > > On Wednesday 21 January 2009 12:26:32 pm Thomas S Hatch wrote: > > I am running 4.2 RC1 right now on ArchLinux, it is a HUGE improvement. > But > > fire away and I will see what I can do > > > > -Tom > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Robert Lewis >wrote: > > > Anyone out there using KDE 4.1 ? > > > > > > Do you like it? > > > > > > I have it running here and am getting myself into trouble with it. > > > > > > If you are using it and feel fluent I would like to ask you some > > > questions. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Bob > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090124/3b16269b/attachment.html From bob.l.lewis at gmail.com Sat Jan 24 12:19:26 2009 From: bob.l.lewis at gmail.com (Robert Lewis) Date: Sat Jan 24 11:45:03 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.1 fans In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0901211126t11c75445k6a2dad762f3c8439@mail.gmail.com> References: <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0901211126t11c75445k6a2dad762f3c8439@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <86d2b63e0901241119k3196af29ufbcb30e0b26f8fea@mail.gmail.com> HI Thomas, Sorry for the fairly long delay in responding to your kind offer to help. I have done something to get rid of the original plamoid subsection of the desktop that contains those applications that I want to have available. The $HOME/Desktop directory shows all the items that wasn't appeared within the container. However, the items from Desktop folder no longer show up nor does the Plasmoid (I could easily have the wrong name) that allows one to add new items. So, my current condition doesn't allow me to add Skype or other 3rd party applications. I think the best way to communicate this would be to send you screen shots of what I am missing if that is ok. I'll send them directly to you instead of the list if that is ok. Cheers, Bob ----- On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > I am running 4.2 RC1 right now on ArchLinux, it is a HUGE improvement. But > fire away and I will see what I can do > > -Tom > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Robert Lewis wrote: > >> Anyone out there using KDE 4.1 ? >> >> Do you like it? >> >> I have it running here and am getting myself into trouble with it. >> >> If you are using it and feel fluent I would like to ask you some >> questions. >> >> Cheers, >> Bob >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> >> > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090124/738b05a1/attachment.htm From tsharpe at xmission.com Sat Jan 24 14:16:01 2009 From: tsharpe at xmission.com (Trevor Sharpe) Date: Sat Jan 24 13:41:31 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.1 fans In-Reply-To: <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> References: <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <497B8511.4040109@xmission.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Robert Lewis wrote: > Anyone out there using KDE 4.1 ? > > Do you like it? > > I have it running here and am getting myself into trouble with it. > > If you are using it and feel fluent I would like to ask you some questions. > > Cheers, > Bob Thought everyone might be interested in this: http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09%2F01%2F24%2F1842218&from=rss For all the press it got a while ago. I guess even Linus has left KDE. I don't know enough to judge, after all a Gnome user. Is it really that bad? - -- Trevor Sharpe E-Mail: tsharpe@xmission.com Jabber: tsharpe@gmail.com - ---------- Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. ---H. L. Mencken -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkl7hQYACgkQRDaxm/9432In9QCdEn4eF43kKy6XHWc6GlEvMlbT BXEAoJlg+4YRGZamkO3gBZUrN0tC2G6f =u4vZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jeffquiparle at gmail.com Sat Jan 24 17:39:10 2009 From: jeffquiparle at gmail.com (Jeff Shipley) Date: Sat Jan 24 17:04:35 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.1 fans In-Reply-To: <497B8511.4040109@xmission.com> References: <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> <497B8511.4040109@xmission.com> Message-ID: I don't think that's its bad, but it is a big change. Some people like the changes, some don't. Then again, KDE4 is still missing a lot, and there are a lot of things that are still missing. On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Trevor Sharpe wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Robert Lewis wrote: >> Anyone out there using KDE 4.1 ? >> >> Do you like it? >> >> I have it running here and am getting myself into trouble with it. >> >> If you are using it and feel fluent I would like to ask you some questions. >> >> Cheers, >> Bob > > Thought everyone might be interested in this: > > http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09%2F01%2F24%2F1842218&from=rss > > For all the press it got a while ago. I guess even Linus has left KDE. I > don't know enough to judge, after all a Gnome user. Is it really that bad? > > - -- > Trevor Sharpe > E-Mail: tsharpe@xmission.com > Jabber: tsharpe@gmail.com > - ---------- > Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist > the black flag, and begin slitting throats. ---H. L. Mencken > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAkl7hQYACgkQRDaxm/9432In9QCdEn4eF43kKy6XHWc6GlEvMlbT > BXEAoJlg+4YRGZamkO3gBZUrN0tC2G6f > =u4vZ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From bms at mscis.org Sat Jan 24 19:54:15 2009 From: bms at mscis.org (Brandon Stout) Date: Sat Jan 24 19:20:46 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.1 fans In-Reply-To: References: <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> <497B8511.4040109@xmission.com> Message-ID: <497BD457.2070303@mscis.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jeff Shipley wrote: > Then again, KDE4 is still missing a lot, and there are a lot of > things that are still missing. Is this from the Department of Redundancy Department? Brandon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkl71FcACgkQx0pgn74qrcLQ1QCgsC+anreXROXlnBYjvhs9hX0h RHkAnAlEEG7IwYW+rPB0vZYEdnUg1Aa9 =d6fo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kevin at codegreene.com Sat Jan 24 16:40:02 2009 From: kevin at codegreene.com (Kevin Carter) Date: Sun Jan 25 09:03:59 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.1 fans In-Reply-To: <86d2b63e0901241005v76d5abcaj8bb18de1990de17f@mail.gmail.com> References: <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> <6172c17e0901211126t11c75445k6a2dad762f3c8439@mail.gmail.com> <200901211529.09603.kevin@codegreene.com> <86d2b63e0901241005v76d5abcaj8bb18de1990de17f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <497BA6D2.1080400@codegreene.com> I'm not sure on specifics as I don't use suse. There's no doubt 4.2 should be available on or a couple days after the 27th for it though. I know openSUSE 11 shipped with KDE 4.0 so they may provide it as an update or if not there should be a repo somewhere that will have it. -Kevin- Robert Lewis wrote: > Hi Kevin: > > Sorry for the delay in responding, life gets in the way sometimes. > Questions: I would like to get 4.2 on the 27th. > 1) Will SUSE have it ready for d/l on the 27th? > 2) What repository should I be pointing to on SUSE to fetch it? > I currently have: > OpenSUSE BuildService - KDE:Community > OpenSUSEBuildService - KDE:Backports > > Or will it come up automatically as a update? > > Cheers, > Bob > --- > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Kevin > wrote: > > I've been running 4.1 since it came out and I'm now running 4.2 rc1. > 4.2 is > much better and seems like the release that is general public ready, > I've been > happy with 4.x in general. There have been some rough edges but > things are > improving with every release. > > 4.2 final is scheduled to release Jan 27. So maybe sit tight and > wait for that > release. > > -Kevin- > > On Wednesday 21 January 2009 12:26:32 pm Thomas S Hatch wrote: > > I am running 4.2 RC1 right now on ArchLinux, it is a HUGE > improvement. But > > fire away and I will see what I can do > > > > -Tom > > > > On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Robert Lewis > >wrote: > > > Anyone out there using KDE 4.1 ? > > > > > > Do you like it? > > > > > > I have it running here and am getting myself into trouble with it. > > > > > > If you are using it and feel fluent I would like to ask you some > > > questions. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Bob > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, > links. > > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net > channel #Utah > > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net > channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members From kevin at codegreene.com Sat Jan 24 16:29:19 2009 From: kevin at codegreene.com (Kevin Carter) Date: Sun Jan 25 09:04:00 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.1 fans In-Reply-To: <497B8511.4040109@xmission.com> References: <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> <497B8511.4040109@xmission.com> Message-ID: <497BA44F.2020501@codegreene.com> Trevor Sharpe wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Robert Lewis wrote: >> Anyone out there using KDE 4.1 ? >> >> Do you like it? >> >> I have it running here and am getting myself into trouble with it. >> >> If you are using it and feel fluent I would like to ask you some questions. >> >> Cheers, >> Bob > > Thought everyone might be interested in this: > > http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09%2F01%2F24%2F1842218&from=rss > > For all the press it got a while ago. I guess even Linus has left KDE. I > don't know enough to judge, after all a Gnome user. Is it really that bad? No, its not. Linus' reason for leaving was the same complaints other have had. That 4.0 was not a user release. Yet it was pushed out to users as an update by distro's despite the advisement of KDE that it shouldn't be. 4.0 was meant as a release to help get KDE 4 into usage by developers and testers so that they could more rapidly build KDE 4 into something amazing. It has taken them a year to do so but now they are at a point where 4.2 is a user ready release. Please read this for a little more perspective on it: http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2009/01/choices-and-punishment.html From jeffquiparle at gmail.com Mon Jan 26 09:57:23 2009 From: jeffquiparle at gmail.com (Jeff Shipley) Date: Mon Jan 26 09:22:55 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.1 fans In-Reply-To: <497BD457.2070303@mscis.org> References: <86d2b63e0901211117j76e24688q6ad4dd39722a2587@mail.gmail.com> <497B8511.4040109@xmission.com> <497BD457.2070303@mscis.org> Message-ID: Nope, this is from the department of changing my thought process in the middle of the sentence, being a bit tired, and not reading over my e-mail to discover stupid mistakes before I send it out. Sorry about that :) On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Brandon Stout wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Jeff Shipley wrote: > >> Then again, KDE4 is still missing a lot, and there are a lot of >> things that are still missing. > > Is this from the Department of Redundancy Department? > > Brandon > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAkl71FcACgkQx0pgn74qrcLQ1QCgsC+anreXROXlnBYjvhs9hX0h > RHkAnAlEEG7IwYW+rPB0vZYEdnUg1Aa9 > =d6fo > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From bikergoth at hotmail.com Sat Jan 31 14:38:23 2009 From: bikergoth at hotmail.com (tony wilson) Date: Sat Jan 31 14:03:58 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: free MIT classes Message-ID: hi all, I was wandering around th 'net, as I often do, and stumbled upon this interesting tidbit...http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/home/home/index.htm 1800 past classes with lecture notes and study guides. theres also a complete list of audio/video lectures. so if youve ever wanted to go to MIT, now you can. Tony 25SEP08 23OCT08 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090131/411e4cde/attachment.html From chris.c.hogan at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 15:27:04 2009 From: chris.c.hogan at gmail.com (Christopher Hogan) Date: Sat Jan 31 14:52:35 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: free MIT classes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6977f2fc0901311427v42ab7733xbbdedd7465270a10@mail.gmail.com> I helped set up several of these types of classes for my work. There is some good stuff out there. Here are a few more links: Take a look at Connexions, http://cnx.org/It's backed by Rice University. Much like MIT, Yale also offers their courses: http://oyc.yale.edu/ I also found LAMS (Learning Activity Management System) at http://lamsfoundation.org/It's an open source program. It has some course-ware available. However, all I could find were courses accredited in the UK: http://lamsinternational.com/They have a community site at: http://lamscommunity.org/The documentation talks about integration with other Learning Management Systems. Their wiki has better information: http://wiki.lamsfoundation.org/display/lams/Home Finally, take a look at: http://wikieducator.org/Exemplary_Collection_of_Open_eLearning_Content_Repositories One last link I came across, take a look at: http://cosl.usu.edu/The Center for Open Sustainable Learning offers a yearly conference based in Logan, UT. It looks like they have a lot of information on the subject. Thanks, Chris On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 2:38 PM, tony wilson wrote: > hi all, > I was wandering around th 'net, as I often do, and stumbled upon this > interesting tidbit...http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/home/home/index.htm > 1800 past classes with lecture notes and study guides. theres also a > complete list of audio/video lectures. so if youve ever wanted to go to MIT, > now you can. > > Tony > > > > > > > > 25SEP08 23OCT08 > > > > ------------------------------ > Windows Live? Hotmail(R)?more than just e-mail. See how it works. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090131/68e13e09/attachment.htm From thatch45 at gmail.com Sat Jan 31 15:30:33 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Sat Jan 31 14:56:03 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: free MIT classes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6172c17e0901311430na3da2ddn8e45fa7a84cb41fa@mail.gmail.com> OpenCourseware has been around for years, most of it is really good stuff. Keep in mind that a number of universities are in on it: http://www.ocwconsortium.org/members/consortium-members.html the coverage has grown substantialy On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 2:38 PM, tony wilson wrote: > hi all, > I was wandering around th 'net, as I often do, and stumbled upon this > interesting tidbit...http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/web/home/home/index.htm > 1800 past classes with lecture notes and study guides. theres also a > complete list of audio/video lectures. so if youve ever wanted to go to MIT, > now you can. > > Tony > > > > > > > > 25SEP08 23OCT08 > > > > ------------------------------ > Windows Live? Hotmail(R)?more than just e-mail. See how it works. > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090131/dd9ba12b/attachment.html