From marc at mecworks.com Mon Feb 2 11:55:25 2009 From: marc at mecworks.com (Marc Christensen) Date: Mon Feb 2 11:21:14 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Ethernet FXO device for Asterisk? Message-ID: <4987419D.7070902@mecworks.com> Hi everyone, I have a Digium card with one FXO and one FXS port. I want to virtualize my Asterisk server which means no PCI cards will be accessible to the VM (Xen supports PCI passthrough however, the server I am looking at getting only has PCIe ports, and my current card is PCI). I was wondering if there is an FXO/Ethernet solution that I can use where the FXO port is physically separate from the Asterisk server and then have Asterisk talk to the FXO over the network? Thanks! -- Marc Christensen http://blog.mecworks.com From stevehildebrand757 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 2 13:38:31 2009 From: stevehildebrand757 at yahoo.com (Steve Hildebrand) Date: Mon Feb 2 13:04:15 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Crazy question References: <200902021900.n12J02s1001060@sllug.org> Message-ID: <388793.12067.qm@web90406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have been out of the hardware stuff for a while, but I am upgrading a Dell that is only a couple of years old while I build a monster system. I have dug around everywhere, and for some reason, I cannot find 2gb sticks of DDR400. Well, except for servers, and those run $125+. Did they not make those in any significant numbers? It would be very nice to fill the two(!) slots with 2gb each, but not for $300. Anyone know where to find some 2gb sticks, or am I hunting snipe here? ________________________________ From: "sllug-members-request@sllug.org" To: sllug-members@sllug.org Sent: Monday, February 2, 2009 12:00:03 PM Subject: sllug-members Digest, Vol 54, Issue 2 Send sllug-members mailing list submissions to sllug-members@sllug.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to sllug-members-request@sllug.org You can reach the person managing the list at sllug-members-owner@sllug.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of sllug-members digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Ethernet FXO device for Asterisk? (Marc Christensen) Hi everyone, I have a Digium card with one FXO and one FXS port. I want to virtualize my Asterisk server which means no PCI cards will be accessible to the VM (Xen supports PCI passthrough however, the server I am looking at getting only has PCIe ports, and my current card is PCI). I was wondering if there is an FXO/Ethernet solution that I can use where the FXO port is physically separate from the Asterisk server and then have Asterisk talk to the FXO over the network? Thanks! -- Marc Christensen http://blog.mecworks.com ______________________________________________________________________ See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah sllug-members@sllug.org http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090202/81c36110/attachment.htm From dragen at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 13:48:56 2009 From: dragen at gmail.com (Adam Barrett) Date: Mon Feb 2 13:14:32 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Crazy question In-Reply-To: <388793.12067.qm@web90406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200902021900.n12J02s1001060@sllug.org> <388793.12067.qm@web90406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6902ba8e0902021248n6c41498w6c378948e617d6b2@mail.gmail.com> I can't confirm that 2GB dimms ever existed, but I can tell you they aren't easy to find or worth finding (price wise). On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Steve Hildebrand wrote: > I have been out of the hardware stuff for a while, but I am upgrading a Dell > that is only a couple of years old while I build a monster system. I have > dug around everywhere, and for some reason, I cannot find 2gb sticks of > DDR400. Well, except for servers, and those run $125+. Did they not make > those in any significant numbers? It would be very nice to fill the two(!) > slots with 2gb each, but not for $300. > > Anyone know where to find some 2gb sticks, or am I hunting snipe here? > > ________________________________ > From: "sllug-members-request@sllug.org" > To: sllug-members@sllug.org > Sent: Monday, February 2, 2009 12:00:03 PM > Subject: sllug-members Digest, Vol 54, Issue 2 > > Send sllug-members mailing list submissions to > sllug-members@sllug.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > sllug-members-request@sllug.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > sllug-members-owner@sllug.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of sllug-members digest..." > Today's Topics: > > 1. Ethernet FXO device for Asterisk? (Marc Christensen) > Hi everyone, > > I have a Digium card with one FXO and one FXS port. I want to > virtualize my Asterisk server which means no PCI cards will be > accessible to the VM (Xen supports PCI passthrough however, the server I > am looking at getting only has PCIe ports, and my current card is PCI). > > I was wondering if there is an FXO/Ethernet solution that I can use > where the FXO port is physically separate from the Asterisk server and > then have Asterisk talk to the FXO over the network? > > Thanks! > > -- > Marc Christensen > http://blog.mecworks.com > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > -- Adam Barrett dragen@gmail.com From homerj79 at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 13:59:07 2009 From: homerj79 at gmail.com (Russ) Date: Mon Feb 2 13:24:41 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Crazy question In-Reply-To: <6902ba8e0902021248n6c41498w6c378948e617d6b2@mail.gmail.com> References: <200902021900.n12J02s1001060@sllug.org> <388793.12067.qm@web90406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6902ba8e0902021248n6c41498w6c378948e617d6b2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <31e8ff2a0902021259x7258abe8hbe27d6e78c350996@mail.gmail.com> Just looking around, I found a 2GB stick of ECC Registered DDR400 RAM over at Dealram.com for $99/stick. In fact, all of the prices I see are for ECC Registered. I guess you should first make sure your board can handle this type of memory. If it can, than you're in business. Direct link to the page: http://dealnews.com/memory/prices/PC3200-DDR-400-MHz/27/2GB.html On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Adam Barrett wrote: > I can't confirm that 2GB dimms ever existed, but I can tell you they > aren't easy to find or worth finding (price wise). > > On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 1:38 PM, Steve Hildebrand > wrote: > > I have been out of the hardware stuff for a while, but I am upgrading a > Dell > > that is only a couple of years old while I build a monster system. I > have > > dug around everywhere, and for some reason, I cannot find 2gb sticks of > > DDR400. Well, except for servers, and those run $125+. Did they not > make > > those in any significant numbers? It would be very nice to fill the > two(!) > > slots with 2gb each, but not for $300. > > > > Anyone know where to find some 2gb sticks, or am I hunting snipe here? > > > > ________________________________ > > From: "sllug-members-request@sllug.org" > > > To: sllug-members@sllug.org > > Sent: Monday, February 2, 2009 12:00:03 PM > > Subject: sllug-members Digest, Vol 54, Issue 2 > > > > Send sllug-members mailing list submissions to > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > sllug-members-request@sllug.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > sllug-members-owner@sllug.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of sllug-members digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Ethernet FXO device for Asterisk? (Marc Christensen) > > Hi everyone, > > > > I have a Digium card with one FXO and one FXS port. I want to > > virtualize my Asterisk server which means no PCI cards will be > > accessible to the VM (Xen supports PCI passthrough however, the server I > > am looking at getting only has PCIe ports, and my current card is PCI). > > > > I was wondering if there is an FXO/Ethernet solution that I can use > > where the FXO port is physically separate from the Asterisk server and > > then have Asterisk talk to the FXO over the network? > > > > Thanks! > > > > -- > > Marc Christensen > > http://blog.mecworks.com > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > > > > > > -- > Adam Barrett > dragen@gmail.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- wwjd for a Klondike Bar? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090202/b73de92f/attachment.html From sllug at vpxp.com Tue Feb 3 08:17:05 2009 From: sllug at vpxp.com (Chris Brown) Date: Tue Feb 3 07:43:36 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Ethernet FXO device for Asterisk? In-Reply-To: <4987419D.7070902@mecworks.com> References: <4987419D.7070902@mecworks.com> Message-ID: <49885FF1.2060108@vpxp.com> Marc, The Linksys SPA-3102 is an external ATA with one FXO and one FXS port that works great with Linux. It also has two Ethernet ports which can be placed in Bridge mode so it can be placed "in-line" with some other Ethernet device (normally it is a router/firewall with DHCP, NAT, & etc). Chris Brown Marc Christensen wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I have a Digium card with one FXO and one FXS port. I want to > virtualize my Asterisk server which means no PCI cards will be > accessible to the VM (Xen supports PCI passthrough however, the server I > am looking at getting only has PCIe ports, and my current card is PCI). > > I was wondering if there is an FXO/Ethernet solution that I can use > where the FXO port is physically separate from the Asterisk server and > then have Asterisk talk to the FXO over the network? > > Thanks! > > -- > Marc Christensen > http://blog.mecworks.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From marc at mecworks.com Tue Feb 3 09:25:51 2009 From: marc at mecworks.com (Marc Christensen) Date: Tue Feb 3 08:51:41 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Ethernet FXO device for Asterisk? In-Reply-To: <49885FF1.2060108@vpxp.com> References: <4987419D.7070902@mecworks.com> <49885FF1.2060108@vpxp.com> Message-ID: <4988700F.1070603@mecworks.com> Chris Brown wrote: > Marc, > > The Linksys SPA-3102 is an external ATA with one FXO and one FXS port > that works great with Linux. > > It also has two Ethernet ports which can be placed in Bridge mode so it > can be placed "in-line" with some other Ethernet device (normally it is > a router/firewall with DHCP, NAT, & etc). > > Chris Brown Thanks Chris, I think that is just what I'm looking for. I'll read up on it. -- Marc Christensen http://blog.mecworks.com > Marc Christensen wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> I have a Digium card with one FXO and one FXS port. I want to >> virtualize my Asterisk server which means no PCI cards will be >> accessible to the VM (Xen supports PCI passthrough however, the server I >> am looking at getting only has PCIe ports, and my current card is PCI). >> >> I was wondering if there is an FXO/Ethernet solution that I can use >> where the FXO port is physically separate from the Asterisk server and >> then have Asterisk talk to the FXO over the network? >> >> Thanks! From herlo1 at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 16:41:07 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Wed Feb 4 16:06:40 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Salt Lake Linux User Group @daytime SIG In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: So, I've done it. I've scheduled a room at the Salt Lake Public Library for the 2nd Wednesday of each month. The meetings will begin at 11:30 and go til about 1pm. We have the room reserved from 9-1 each time we meet so feel free to come early and participate. Our first meeting will be next Wednesday, Feb 11 from 11:30am-1pm The first meeting I will present 'Fedora Remix: Custom distributions based upon proven design' =================================================================== Here's the rest of the details: Conference room A on the lower level of the Salt Lake Library has been reserved. Head down the stairs, make a left turn (essentially a U turn). The conference room is directly under the foyer area (the area with all the shops on the 1st level) If you aren't clear, ask the information desk. A map is available at: http://www.slcpl.lib.ut.us/details.jsp?parent_id=5&page_id=91 for all floor plans of the library. Also, our meetings should be posted on the Electric Signs by the entrance to the library on the first floor. Meeting Days & Times: All meetings will be held from 11:30am - 1pm on the Second Wednesday of each month. Wednesday, February 11 Wednesday, March 11 Wednesday, April 8 Wednesday, May 13 Wednesday, June 10 Traxx: You can get off 2 blocks west of the Library. If you get off at the 'Courthouse 500 South' stop There is also a University Train that stops right next to the library, but you'll have to transfer at Gallivan Center. Parking: Parking is recommended to be one block away from the Library as they have reduced the meters in front of the Library to only 30 minutes. However the meters directly east (on 200 East) should still be 2 hours. Make sure to check the time you allow yourself is plenty. See you all there. Cheers, Clint From herlo1 at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 01:23:46 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Mon Feb 9 00:49:19 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Reminder SLLUG daytime SIG - This Wednesday @ Salt Lake Public Library 11:30-1 Message-ID: Hi all, Just wanted to give you all a quick reminder that the first SLLUG (daytime SIG) meeting will be this Wednesday, Feb 11 from 11:30am-1pm The first meeting I will present 'Fedora Remix: Custom distributions based upon proven design' I should also mention that I'll be bringing some swag to give away. I have some cool computer bags and a copy of the latest openSUSE 11.1 boxed edition to give away. I've included the details about location again below. If you have questions, feel free to email me directly . =================================================================== Salt Lake Public Library: 210 E 400 S, Salt Lake City, UT? - (801) 524-8200? Map: http://tinyurl.com/slcpubliclibrary Conference room A on the lower level of the Salt Lake Library has been reserved. Head down the stairs, make a left turn (essentially a U turn). The conference room is directly under the foyer area (the area with all the shops on the 1st level) If you aren't clear, ask the information desk. A map is available at: http://www.slcpl.lib.ut.us/details.jsp?parent_id=5&page_id=91 for all floor plans of the library. Also, our meetings should be posted on the Electric Signs by the entrance to the library on the first floor. Meeting Days & Times: All meetings will be held from 11:30am - 1pm on the Second Wednesday of each month. Wednesday, February 11 Wednesday, March 11 Wednesday, April 8 Wednesday, May 13 Wednesday, June 10 Traxx: You can get off 2 blocks west of the Library. If you get off at the 'Courthouse 500 South' stop There is also a University Train that stops right next to the library, but you'll have to transfer at Gallivan Center. Parking: Parking is recommended to be one block away from the Library as they have reduced the meters in front of the Library to only 30 minutes. However the meters directly east (on 200 East) should still be 2 hours. Make sure to check the time you allow yourself is plenty. See you all there. Cheers, Clint ______________________________________________________________________ See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah sllug-members@sllug.org http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members From herlo1 at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 09:41:02 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Wed Feb 11 09:06:39 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Reminder SLLUG daytime SIG - Today @ Salt Lake Public Library 11:30-1 Message-ID: Hi all, Just wanted to give you all a quick reminder that the first SLLUG (daytime SIG) meeting Today from 11:30am-1pm I will be presenting 'Fedora Remix: Custom distributions based upon proven design' I'll be bringing some swag to give away. I have some cool computer bags and a copy of the latest openSUSE 11.1 boxed edition to give away. I've included the details about location again below. If you have questions, feel free to email me directly . ATTENTION: WE NEED PRESENTERS FOR MARCH & APRIL This SIG will be more successful if everyone participates, even if you feel you don't know a lot, consider presenting. If you are interested in presenting, please let me know =================================================================== Salt Lake Public Library: 210 E 400 S, Salt Lake City, UT? - (801) 524-8200? Map: http://tinyurl.com/slcpubliclibrary Conference room A on the lower level of the Salt Lake Library has been reserved. Head down the stairs, make a left turn (essentially a U turn). The conference room is directly under the foyer area (the area with all the shops on the 1st level) If you aren't clear, ask the information desk. A map is available at: http://www.slcpl.lib.ut.us/details.jsp?parent_id=5&page_id=91 for all floor plans of the library. Also, our meetings should be posted on the Electric Signs by the entrance to the library on the first floor. Cheers, Clint From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Wed Feb 11 11:03:16 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Wed Feb 11 10:29:07 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Reminder SLLUG daytime SIG - Today @ Salt Lake Public Library 11:30-1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <499312E4.6050705@ridgecrestherbals.com> I'll usually be able to attend days, but i'm in LA today. So +1 to your "usually willing" column. Clint Savage wrote: > Hi all, > > Just wanted to give you all a quick reminder that the first SLLUG > (daytime SIG) meeting Today from 11:30am-1pm > > I will be presenting 'Fedora Remix: Custom distributions based upon > proven design' > > I'll be bringing some swag to give away. I have some cool computer > bags and a copy of the latest openSUSE 11.1 > boxed edition to give away. > > I've included the details about location again below. If you have > questions, feel free to email me directly . > > ATTENTION: WE NEED PRESENTERS FOR MARCH & APRIL > This SIG will be more successful if everyone participates, even if you > feel you don't know a lot, consider presenting. If you are interested > in presenting, please let me know > > =================================================================== > Salt Lake Public Library: > 210 E 400 S, Salt Lake City, UT? - (801) 524-8200? > Map: http://tinyurl.com/slcpubliclibrary > > Conference room A on the lower level of the Salt Lake Library has been > reserved. Head down the stairs, make a left turn (essentially a U > turn). The conference room is directly under the foyer area (the area > with all the shops on the 1st level) If you aren't clear, ask the > information desk. A map is available at: > http://www.slcpl.lib.ut.us/details.jsp?parent_id=5&page_id=91 for all > floor plans of the library. > > Also, our meetings should be posted on the Electric Signs by the > entrance to the library on the first floor. > > Cheers, > > Clint > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From herlo1 at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 19:58:32 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Wed Feb 11 19:24:08 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG Meeting Message-ID: This week's meeting was pretty successful, we had about 10-12 people show up to listen to my presentation on Fedora Remix. I thought it was pretty successful, but I want to hear from those of you who attended what you thought. Here's mine to start, feel free to +1 or -1 on any of these. * I suggested we do 'brown bag' lunches next month as the cost of food in the deli isn't cheap. * I'll bring my projector every month, it costs $20 to rent one from the library. * Parking on the East of the Library was convenient, but apparently there is underground parking and it can be validated. * We need a set of requested topics to discuss, so let's start a list. In the future, presentations will start around 11:45 or so, so make sure you are there before then to make sure you don't miss anything, the 11:30 time will get us through announcements and SWAG. Also, I forgot to bring in the SWAG this week, so I apologize to anyone who was expecting some. I'll bring some next month for sure. Next meeting will be March 11 from 11:30-1 so come on down. We're looking for a presenter, so please email me if you wish to present. The topic can be as simple or complex as you like, so don't be shy or the meetings might not be as successful. I don't want to present each month :) I'm looking forward to seeing you all next week. It was great to meet you all this month. Cheers, Clint From herlo1 at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 20:06:22 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Wed Feb 11 19:31:59 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 7:58 PM, Clint Savage wrote: > This week's meeting was pretty successful, we had about 10-12 people > show up to listen to my presentation on Fedora Remix. > > I thought it was pretty successful, but I want to hear from those of > you who attended what you thought. Here's mine to start, feel free to > +1 or -1 on any of these. > > * I suggested we do 'brown bag' lunches next month as the cost of food > in the deli isn't cheap. > * I'll bring my projector every month, it costs $20 to rent one from > the library. > * Parking on the East of the Library was convenient, but apparently > there is underground parking and it can be validated. > * We need a set of requested topics to discuss, so let's start a list. > > In the future, presentations will start around 11:45 or so, so make > sure you are there before then to make sure you don't miss anything, > the 11:30 time will get us through announcements and SWAG. Also, I > forgot to bring in the SWAG this week, so I apologize to anyone who > was expecting some. I'll bring some next month for sure. > > Next meeting will be March 11 from 11:30-1 so come on down. We're > looking for a presenter, so please email me if you > wish to present. The topic can be as simple or complex as you like, > so don't be shy or the meetings might not be as successful. I don't > want to present each month :) > > I'm looking forward to seeing you all next week. It was great to meet > you all this month. well, actually, I'll be seeing you all next month :) Clint From bms at mscis.org Wed Feb 11 21:24:00 2009 From: bms at mscis.org (Brandon Stout) Date: Wed Feb 11 20:50:57 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG Meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4993A460.3070905@mscis.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Clint Savage wrote: > * Parking on the East of the Library was convenient, but apparently > there is underground parking and it can be validated. I assumed that since the parking was under the library it could be validated at the library. It made sense to me logically. Unfortunately, the first 30 minutes is free, but each consecutive 30 minutes is $1.25 after that. So, if you want free parking, park a mile or so away at some store, buy something to feel good and hoof it to the library. Then feel good about the good your doing your heart because you hoofed it for a mile or so. Brandon Stout Stout Hosting LLC -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmTpGAACgkQx0pgn74qrcKo/gCfdyhFw/x8qgCFyGP+4HkrGPYE 7IsAn2nNrvAGkgbQWjX8PXB6dgm/9JKg =IT/j -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From remo at italy1.com Fri Feb 13 15:20:31 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (Remo Mattei) Date: Fri Feb 13 14:46:28 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Blackbarry problem (OT) Message-ID: Hello all, I have a question about a Blackbarry my friend has. Every time the blackbarry pearl gets sync with the windows it shoots out hundreds of emails....any one has seen or heard anything about this a fix ? Thanks any suggestions will be appreciated. Remo From kwalker at kobran.org Mon Feb 16 03:50:22 2009 From: kwalker at kobran.org (Knight Walker) Date: Mon Feb 16 03:16:17 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: The Procmail, It Does Nothing Message-ID: <1234781422.648.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> I'm writing to the group in extreme frustration in the hopes that someone can help. I'm on a mailing list that completely evades any attempt at processing in Procmail, but I cannot for the life of me figure out why. I'm on the OpenMoko Community mailing list, and have been for quite a while. Several months ago they made some kind of change and now my Procmail rules to filter it into its own folder simply do not work, but I cannot find out why or how they're failing. The headers look normal, but no matter how I filter or which field I pick to filter on, they still end up in my inbox, and with the volume of posts on that list, it's a serious problem. The really odd thing is that the filters in Evolution work just fine, but Evolution is not the only MUA I use, so I can't rely on that. I'm also on several other mailing lists and they all filter just fine. I'd be happy to post headers and my .procmailrc rules if anyone is interested. Thanks. -KW From sjansen at buscaluz.org Mon Feb 16 04:30:00 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Mon Feb 16 03:55:42 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: The Procmail, It Does Nothing In-Reply-To: <1234781422.648.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1234781422.648.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1234783800.3654.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 03:50 -0700, Knight Walker wrote: > I'd be happy to post headers and my .procmailrc rules if anyone is > interested. Don't ask if you can ask, just ask. In other words, post the headers and rules and maybe someone will notice something. -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From kwalker at kobran.org Mon Feb 16 14:33:54 2009 From: kwalker at kobran.org (Knight Walker) Date: Mon Feb 16 13:59:35 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: The Procmail, It Does Nothing In-Reply-To: <1234781422.648.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1234781422.648.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1234820034.648.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Here are all the headers for a message: Return-path: X-spam-checker-version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on juggernaut.kobran.org X-spam-level: X-spam-status: No, score=-21.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham version=3.2.4 X-original-to: moko@kobran.org Delivered-to: moko@kobran.org Received: from sita.openmoko.org (sita.openmoko.org [88.198.124.203]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by juggernaut.kobran.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35376130072 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 12:45:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=sita.openmoko.org) by sita.openmoko.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LZ9Nt-0000UC-5F; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 20:44:05 +0100 Received: from mail-ew0-f16.google.com ([209.85.219.16]) by sita.openmoko.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1LZ9No-0000Sp-6G for community@lists.openmoko.org; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 20:44:03 +0100 Received: by ewy9 with SMTP id 9so1883070ewy.3 for ; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:43:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.210.59.14 with SMTP id h14mr1044680eba.36.1234813427820; Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:43:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ?192.168.0.5? (0166400058.0.fullrate.dk [90.184.208.191]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 28sm15058198eye.49.2009.02.16.11.43.47 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 16 Feb 2009 11:43:47 -0800 (PST) Message-id: <4999C1F1.8090108@spernj.org> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 20:43:45 +0100 (12:43 MST) From: Kasper Johansen User-agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (X11/20090105) Mime-version: 1.0 To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: GTK and OM X-beenthere: community@lists.openmoko.org X-mailman-version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-to: List for Openmoko community discussion List-id: List for Openmoko community discussion List-unsubscribe: , List-archive: List-post: List-help: List-subscribe: , Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Sender: community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org Errors-to: community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org And here are my .procmailrc rules: ##### OpenMoKo ##### # Community :0: * ^Return-Path:.*community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org* mail/OpenMoKo/Community :0: * ^X-BeenThere:.*community@lists.openmoko.org* mail/OpenMoKo/Community Anything stand out to anyone? -KW From roger at itigger.com Mon Feb 16 15:50:52 2009 From: roger at itigger.com (Roger Smith) Date: Mon Feb 16 15:16:34 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: The Procmail, It Does Nothing In-Reply-To: <1234820034.648.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1234781422.648.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1234820034.648.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: > Here are all the headers for a message: > > Return-path: > X-spam-checker-version: SpamAssassin 3.2.4 (2008-01-01) on ... > * ^Return-Path:.*community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org* This looks like it should work fine to my knowledge, I don't know what the * at the end is for. I don't think you need to match the whole line but just a big enough section to map it as something unique to the mailing list. In either case, the '*' at the end of '.org' means to me '.or' optionally followed by "g"s. I think you are looking for '.org' followed by 0 or more any character which would be '.org.*'. * ^Return-path:.*community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org or * ^Return-path:.*community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org.* > :0: > * ^X-BeenThere:.*community@lists.openmoko.org* # * ^X-beenthere:.*community@lists.openmoko.org I see a little case problem here. Again I don't know why the * at then end. I think you can do something like this to make the search non case sensitive: :0 D * ^X-BeenThere:.*community@lists.openmoko.org.* There's my two cents, but I don't know much about procmailrc. Later, Roger From sjansen at buscaluz.org Mon Feb 16 17:00:09 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Mon Feb 16 16:25:50 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: The Procmail, It Does Nothing In-Reply-To: <1234820034.648.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1234781422.648.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1234820034.648.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1234828809.16715.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 14:33 -0700, Knight Walker wrote: > Here are all the headers for a message: > > List-id: List for Openmoko community discussion > And here are my .procmailrc rules: > > ##### OpenMoKo ##### > # Community > :0: > * ^Return-Path:.*community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org* > mail/OpenMoKo/Community I always filter on the List-id field. :0 * ^List.*openmoko mail/OpenMoKo/Community -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From fozz at xmission.com Mon Feb 16 18:01:38 2009 From: fozz at xmission.com (Doran L. Barton) Date: Mon Feb 16 17:27:51 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: The Procmail, It Does Nothing In-Reply-To: <1234820034.648.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1234781422.648.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1234820034.648.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200902161801.38841.fozz@xmission.com> On Monday 16 February 2009 14:33:54 Knight Walker wrote: > Anything stand out to anyone? Yeah. I don't know why you're not filtering on List-Id: -=Fozz -- Doran L. Barton - Linux, Perl, Web, good fun, and more! "Vertical parking only." -- Seen in a Tokyo traffic handbook From roger at itigger.com Mon Feb 16 19:00:34 2009 From: roger at itigger.com (Roger Smith) Date: Mon Feb 16 18:26:49 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: The Procmail, It Does Nothing In-Reply-To: References: <1234781422.648.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1234820034.648.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200902162000.35098.roger@itigger.com> On Monday 16 February 2009 4:50:52 pm Roger Smith wrote: > I think you can do something like this to make the search non case sensitive: > :0 D The 'D' flag makes the expression case sensitive. In response to the following posts, filtering on the 'List-Id:' would seem like the best header to filter on. However, it would also appear, in this case, that the filter should have been triggered based on the headers presented. My only point, there may be some other issue. Perhaps it is the procmailrc, or perhaps the messages are not getting piped through procmail. -- Roger smith From mgonzalez at utah.gov Tue Feb 17 06:30:24 2009 From: mgonzalez at utah.gov (Martin Gonzalez) Date: Tue Feb 17 05:56:29 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Blackbarry problem (OT) In-Reply-To: <499A598002000040000374A2@gwia2.state.ut.us> References: <499A5980020000400003749F@gwia2.state.ut.us> <499A598002000040000374A2@gwia2.state.ut.us> Message-ID: <499A598002000040000374A2@gwia2.state.ut.us> Suggestions from a BES administrator if the user has an account with an Enterprise Server; Do they have another sync program connected to their email. Like Hotsync or Intellisync? I have seen this happen when a customer has been on a palm or windows device and still has a ID configured on the GMS server and they are on the BES. Once they are deleted from the GMS, that goes away. -----Original Message----- From: Remo Mattei To: Discussions, Salt Lake Linux Users Group Sent: 2/13/2009 3:20:31 PM Subject: [sllug-members]: Blackbarry problem (OT) Hello all, I have a question about a Blackbarry my friend has. Every time the blackbarry pearl gets sync with the windows it shoots out hundreds of emails....any one has seen or heard anything about this a fix ? Thanks any suggestions will be appreciated. Remo ______________________________________________________________________ See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah sllug-members@sllug.org http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members From remo at italy1.com Tue Feb 17 09:25:11 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (Remo Mattei) Date: Tue Feb 17 08:51:00 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Blackbarry problem (OT) In-Reply-To: <499A598002000040000374A2@gwia2.state.ut.us> Message-ID: Thanks I will give it a shot. Remo Martin Gonzalez On 2/17/09 6:30 AM, "Martin Gonzalez" wrote: > Suggestions from a BES administrator if > the user has an account with an Enterprise Server; > > Do they have another sync program connected to their email. Like Hotsync or > Intellisync? I have seen this happen when a customer has been on a palm or > windows device and still has a ID configured on the GMS server and they are on > the BES. Once they are deleted from the GMS, that goes away. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Remo Mattei > To: Discussions, Salt Lake Linux Users Group > > Sent: 2/13/2009 3:20:31 PM > Subject: [sllug-members]: Blackbarry problem (OT) > > Hello all, I have a question about a Blackbarry my friend has. Every time > the blackbarry pearl gets sync with the windows it shoots out hundreds of > emails....any one has seen or heard anything about this a fix ? > > Thanks any suggestions will be appreciated. > > Remo > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > !DSPAM:499abcf6283741193317758! > From marc at sllug.org Tue Feb 17 09:45:38 2009 From: marc at sllug.org (Marc Christensen) Date: Tue Feb 17 09:31:50 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: SLLUG meeting: Wed. Feb. 18, 2009: Fedora Remix: Custom distributions based upon proven design Message-ID: <499AE9B2.6080102@sllug.org> This month, Clint Savage will be presenting on "Fedora Remix: Custom distributions based upon proven design". Fedora offers a complete set of tools for generating your own customized distribution. The output format can be installable CDs or DVDs, or Live images suitable for CD/DVD or USB keys. These tools allow sub-communities to consume and contribute to FOSS using a platform that is geared toward their specific needs. This talk will show off the toolset, and how the tools can be used to fill a variety of needs for the hobbyist, the administrator, or the FOSS advocate. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Remix It seems that a class may have room 101 scheduled this semester so we may meet in 103 which is just across the hall from 101. Time/Date: ---------- Wednesday, February 18, 2009 7:10pm p.m. Place: ---------- Room 101 or 103 in Lower Warnock Engineering Building Directions/Parking: Directions - [http://www.map.utah.edu/index.jsp?find=62] Parking can be found just East of the WEB building and there is a big lot just North of the Merrill Engineering building (MEB). Parking is free after 6:00 (Based on the signs posted. Always check in case this changes.) Special thanks go to: - U of U for providing the meeting room. - Various Volunteers -- Marc Christensen http://www.sllug.org From kwalker at kobran.org Tue Feb 17 14:12:06 2009 From: kwalker at kobran.org (Knight Walker) Date: Tue Feb 17 13:37:50 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: The Procmail, It Does Nothing In-Reply-To: References: <1234781422.648.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1234820034.648.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1234905126.4830.23.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> On Mon, 2009-02-16 at 15:50 -0700, Roger Smith wrote: > This looks like it should work fine to my knowledge, I don't know what the > * at the end is for. I don't think you need to match the whole line but > just a big enough section to map it as something unique to the mailing > list. In either case, the '*' at the end of '.org' means to me '.or' > optionally followed by "g"s. I think you are looking for '.org' followed > by 0 or more any character which would be '.org.*'. > > * ^Return-path:.*community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org > or > * ^Return-path:.*community-bounces@lists.openmoko.org.* Thanks for the tip. I've tried what you show above, but sadly it's still not helping. I've also tried the List-ID lines recommended by others. > > :0: > > * ^X-BeenThere:.*community@lists.openmoko.org* > # * ^X-beenthere:.*community@lists.openmoko.org > I see a little case problem here. Again I don't know why the * at then end. That was me. I wrote my first Procmail rules from the 'man procmailex' page as well as my old DOS glob habits that still work in 'ls'. The thing is those same rules work on EVERY OTHER mailing list I'm on (Five others) but NOT OpenMoko Community. I'm even on the OpenMoko Devel list and that works (Filters into the correct folder), but Community does not. Some more background: My mail server is a CentOS 5 server running Postfix, Spamassassin, and Procmail. I have been using similar Procmail rules since circa 1997 but they've all been written by me using online references (i.e. I've never read a Procmail book, just the man pages and online references found through Google). I do have SELinux turned on (Enforcing), but setting it to Permissive and restarting the services doesn't filter like it should. If I clip a message out of my inbox and run it through Procmail manually (cat msg | procmail) it filters correctly. I've also tried using egrep as a prototype (The Procmail man pages state that it uses egrep-type regexes) and they seem to work correctly. I've checked the mail log, the system log, and the audit log and nothing looks like it is related. I am subscribed using an alias that is mapped to my own user account in /etc/aliases, but I've used aliases before and they don't seem to cause a problem (e.g. the OpenMoko devel list). The thought has crossed my mind several times that it could be something on their end, but I don't get how the Devel list filters correctly while the Community list doesn't. So short of having to unsubscribe from that mailing list, is there anything anyone else can think of? Any Procmail gurus out there with tips, pointers, or other online references I can look at? Anyone know how to increase the logging inside of Procmail so I can see if it's throwing an error somewhere? -KW From remo at italy1.com Wed Feb 18 15:18:19 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (Remo Mattei) Date: Wed Feb 18 14:44:02 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Nfs with Apache Message-ID: Hello does anyone have apache with nfs? I wonder what options have been used since if I try to install a portal it does not work and if I use just regular php file works fine... I have tried different settings on nfs export and on the mount side.. No luck Thanks Remo From sjansen at buscaluz.org Wed Feb 18 15:34:18 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Wed Feb 18 14:59:59 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Nfs with Apache In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1234996458.3836.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 15:18 -0700, Remo Mattei wrote: > Hello does anyone have apache with nfs? I wonder what options have been used > since if I try to install a portal it does not work and if I use just > regular php file works fine... What distro? -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From namonai at gmail.com Wed Feb 18 15:43:34 2009 From: namonai at gmail.com (Craig Kelley) Date: Wed Feb 18 15:09:14 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Nfs with Apache In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <847993120902181443k1789ce75ye954365d7ff44f32@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Remo Mattei wrote: > Hello does anyone have apache with nfs? I wonder what options have been used > since if I try to install a portal it does not work and if I use just > regular php file works fine... There's nothing special about using NFS with Apache. Just make sure that the user Apache runs as can read from the NFS-mounted partition. -- http://inconnu.islug.org/~ink finger ink@inconnu.islug.org for PGP block From remo at italy1.com Wed Feb 18 16:01:40 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (Remo Mattei) Date: Wed Feb 18 15:27:20 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Nfs with Apache In-Reply-To: <1234996458.3836.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: It's centos 5 ciao Stuart Jansen On 2/18/09 3:34 PM, "Stuart Jansen" wrote: > On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 15:18 -0700, Remo Mattei wrote: >> Hello does anyone have apache with nfs? I wonder what options have been used >> since if I try to install a portal it does not work and if I use just >> regular php file works fine... > > What distro? From kwalker at kobran.org Wed Feb 18 16:07:06 2009 From: kwalker at kobran.org (Knight Walker) Date: Wed Feb 18 15:32:49 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Nfs with Apache In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1234998426.7777.2.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 16:01 -0700, Remo Mattei wrote: > It's centos 5 SELinux is Enforcing, isn't it? -KW From remo at italy1.com Wed Feb 18 16:10:45 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (Remo Mattei) Date: Wed Feb 18 15:36:24 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Nfs with Apache In-Reply-To: <1234998426.7777.2.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> Message-ID: Yeap that is set I should reboot to disable it I just trying to see if there is a work around Remo Knight Walker On 2/18/09 4:07 PM, "Knight Walker" wrote: > On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 16:01 -0700, Remo Mattei wrote: >> It's centos 5 > > SELinux is Enforcing, isn't it? > > -KW > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > !DSPAM:499c953d269511540612102! > From kwalker at kobran.org Wed Feb 18 16:24:35 2009 From: kwalker at kobran.org (Knight Walker) Date: Wed Feb 18 15:50:15 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Nfs with Apache In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1234999475.7777.12.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 16:10 -0700, Remo Mattei wrote: > Yeap that is set I should reboot to disable it You don't have to reboot, and disabling it isn't really a good idea unless you plan on forgoing it entirely. You can "setenforce 0" as root to turn SELinux to Permissive mode, then restart Apache and it won't be in the way anymore. Permissive is like "off" but it keeps the SELinux contexts on the inodes, which is useful if you decide later to turn it back on. > I just trying to see if there is a work around There should be, depending on if you need read-only or read-write to the NFS share. What I normally do is run the output of "getsebool -a" through grep looking for anything that might be useful. In this case, I would run 'getsebool -a | egrep -i "(nfs|http)"' and it should give you some output like this: allow_ftpd_use_nfs --> off allow_httpd_anon_write --> off allow_httpd_bugzilla_script_anon_write --> off ... SNIP ... nfs_export_all_ro --> on nfs_export_all_rw --> on nfsd_disable_trans --> off samba_share_nfs --> off use_nfs_home_dirs --> off You may want to try some things like setting use_nfs_home_dirs to on. It's been a long time since I had to do this, but I think that's what I had to do to get it to read from NFS labeled directories. Also "man httpd_selinux" and "man -k selinux" is your friend. -KW -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090218/d768d57b/attachment.html From thatch45 at gmail.com Wed Feb 18 16:25:19 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Wed Feb 18 15:51:01 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Nfs with Apache In-Reply-To: References: <1234998426.7777.2.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> Message-ID: <6172c17e0902181525g27dc0359jcd3e7f1270edd30a@mail.gmail.com> just set SELinux to permissive mode: setenforce 0 Then it won't stop anything, just log what it would have stoped. It is easy to see if it is causing the problem, then if it is check the logs and tell SELinux to play nice (if that is the problem just post again) setenforce 1 to turn it back on On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Remo Mattei wrote: > Yeap that is set I should reboot to disable it > > I just trying to see if there is a work around > > Remo > > > Knight Walker On 2/18/09 4:07 PM, "Knight Walker" > wrote: > > > On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 16:01 -0700, Remo Mattei wrote: > >> It's centos 5 > > > > SELinux is Enforcing, isn't it? > > > > -KW > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > > !DSPAM:499c953d269511540612102! > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090218/e6ae1f67/attachment.htm From thatch45 at gmail.com Wed Feb 18 16:27:07 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Wed Feb 18 15:52:53 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Nfs with Apache In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0902181525g27dc0359jcd3e7f1270edd30a@mail.gmail.com> References: <1234998426.7777.2.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> <6172c17e0902181525g27dc0359jcd3e7f1270edd30a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6172c17e0902181527m68d19cfbwe064810cc263f5cc@mail.gmail.com> Sorr, I missed a few points, the logs are in /var/log/audit.log and you don't need to reboot when you use setenforce, it changes it on the fly. On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > just set SELinux to permissive mode: > > setenforce 0 > > Then it won't stop anything, just log what it would have stoped. It is > easy to see if it is causing the problem, then if it is check the logs and > tell SELinux to play nice (if that is the problem just post again) > > setenforce 1 > > to turn it back on > > > On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Remo Mattei wrote: > >> Yeap that is set I should reboot to disable it >> >> I just trying to see if there is a work around >> >> Remo >> >> >> Knight Walker On 2/18/09 4:07 PM, "Knight Walker" >> wrote: >> >> > On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 16:01 -0700, Remo Mattei wrote: >> >> It's centos 5 >> > >> > SELinux is Enforcing, isn't it? >> > >> > -KW >> > >> > ______________________________________________________________________ >> > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> > sllug-members@sllug.org >> > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> > >> > !DSPAM:499c953d269511540612102! >> > >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090218/d7a3dbda/attachment-0001.html From sjansen at buscaluz.org Wed Feb 18 17:03:12 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Wed Feb 18 16:28:56 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Nfs with Apache In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1235001792.3836.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 16:01 -0700, Remo Mattei wrote: > It's centos 5 Instead of turning off SELinux on the entire system, one option is: setsebool -P httpd_disabled_trans=1 Of course it would be better to figure out how to continue to use SELinux to protect Apache while allowing it to read files on NFS. Unfortunately I don't know NFS client details off the top of my head. I'd recommend you start your research by seeing if sealert has any hints: grep sealert /var/log/messages -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From sjansen at buscaluz.org Wed Feb 18 17:10:47 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Wed Feb 18 16:36:34 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Nfs with Apache In-Reply-To: <1235001792.3836.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1235001792.3836.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1235002247.3836.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 16:01 -0700, Remo Mattei wrote: > It's centos 5 I don't have access to a CentOS 5.2 system with Apache installed at the moment, so there might be a better solution. (Hence the recommendation to see if sealert has a suggestion.) But here's one solution that should work: http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Fedora/2005-07/2441.html -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From remo at italy1.com Wed Feb 18 17:13:15 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (Remo Mattei) Date: Wed Feb 18 16:38:56 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Nfs with Apache In-Reply-To: <1235002247.3836.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: I have solved it by disabling selinux.... It works fine now. Thanks Remo Stuart Jansen On 2/18/09 5:10 PM, "Stuart Jansen" wrote: > On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 16:01 -0700, Remo Mattei wrote: >> It's centos 5 > > I don't have access to a CentOS 5.2 system with Apache installed at the > moment, so there might be a better solution. (Hence the recommendation > to see if sealert has a suggestion.) But here's one solution that should > work: > > http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Fedora/2005-07/2441.html From sjansen at buscaluz.org Wed Feb 18 17:34:10 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Wed Feb 18 16:59:55 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Nfs with Apache In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1235003650.3836.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 17:13 -0700, Remo Mattei wrote: > I have solved it by disabling selinux.... It works fine now. An angel loses its wings every time you disable SELinux. Do you really want to be responsible for that when keeping SELinux enabled is so trivial? -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From remo at italy1.com Wed Feb 18 17:44:10 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (Remo Mattei) Date: Wed Feb 18 17:09:57 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Nfs with Apache In-Reply-To: <1235003650.3836.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1235003650.3836.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Do you have the rule to add it to selinux let me know thanks Inviato da iPhone Il giorno 18/feb/09, alle ore 17:34, Stuart Jansen ha scritto: > On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 17:13 -0700, Remo Mattei wrote: >> I have solved it by disabling selinux.... It works fine now. > > An angel loses its wings every time you disable SELinux. Do you really > want to be responsible for that when keeping SELinux enabled is so > trivial? > > -- > When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical > evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually > doing > is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who > remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > !DSPAM:499ca9ab14332051017194! > From sjansen at buscaluz.org Wed Feb 18 18:59:34 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Wed Feb 18 18:25:15 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Nfs with Apache In-Reply-To: References: <1235003650.3836.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1235008774.3836.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 17:44 -0700, Remo Mattei wrote: > Do you have the rule to add it to selinux let me know thanks Uhm... I gave you two different options that will work. -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From thatch45 at gmail.com Wed Feb 18 19:21:01 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Wed Feb 18 18:46:48 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Nfs with Apache In-Reply-To: <1235008774.3836.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1235003650.3836.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1235008774.3836.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <6172c17e0902181821r1e1c655byd3b57daeafd14c33@mail.gmail.com> Like Stuart said, disabling SELinux is unwise and you should try to keep it up Acctually let me rephrase, disabling SELinux is DUMB, setting selinux to permissive mode is good for diagnosing the problem, but then you should look into why SELinux is restricting access and allow it. Stuart gave you a few commands to tune SELinux, if you want more help with SELinux please post the last 20 or so lines from you audit.log On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Stuart Jansen wrote: > On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 17:44 -0700, Remo Mattei wrote: > > Do you have the rule to add it to selinux let me know thanks > > Uhm... I gave you two different options that will work. > > -- > When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical > evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing > is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who > remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090218/d96dc5ec/attachment.htm From sjansen at buscaluz.org Wed Feb 18 19:33:07 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Wed Feb 18 18:58:47 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Nfs with Apache In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0902181821r1e1c655byd3b57daeafd14c33@mail.gmail.com> References: <1235003650.3836.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1235008774.3836.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <6172c17e0902181821r1e1c655byd3b57daeafd14c33@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1235010787.3788.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 19:21 -0700, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > Acctually let me rephrase, disabling SELinux is DUMB, setting selinux > to permissive mode is good for diagnosing the problem, but then you > should look into why SELinux is restricting access and allow it. I wouldn't call it dumb, but I would call it tragic. It's tragic that because SELinux was hard to learn when it first came out, today most people are too scared or lazy to bother understanding it. -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From beebe at math.utah.edu Thu Feb 19 08:13:28 2009 From: beebe at math.utah.edu (Nelson H. F. Beebe) Date: Thu Feb 19 07:39:45 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-members] Knoppix 6 CD image (649MB) available in SLC Message-ID: Thanks to the SLLUG meeting news last night of the Knoppix 6 release, I have located the English ISO image and downloaded it from the master site in Germany (none of the other US mirrors that I know about have it yet). I have also verified the cryptographically-signed checksums, and the checksums themselves. You can get it from our Knoppix mirror at the University of Utah like this: % ncftp ftp.math.utah.edu ncftp / > cd pub/mirrors/www.knopper.net ncftp / > dir KNOPPIX_V6* -rw-rw-r-- 1 14250 14250 680466432 Jan 26 20:48 KNOPPIX_V6.0-ADRIANE_V1.1CD-2009-01-27-EN.iso -rw-rw-r-- 1 14250 14250 80 Jan 27 14:52 KNOPPIX_V6.0-ADRIANE_V1.1CD-2009-01-27-EN.iso.md5 -rw-rw-r-- 1 14250 14250 324 Jan 27 14:56 KNOPPIX_V6.0-ADRIANE_V1.1CD-2009-01-27-EN.iso.md5.asc -rw-rw-r-- 1 14250 14250 88 Jan 27 14:53 KNOPPIX_V6.0-ADRIANE_V1.1CD-2009-01-27-EN.iso.sha1 -rw-rw-r-- 1 14250 14250 332 Jan 27 14:56 KNOPPIX_V6.0-ADRIANE_V1.1CD-2009-01-27-EN.iso.sha1.asc That site also has several earlier releases. The new ISO image is available equivalently via these URLs for ncftpget, wget, curl, and Web browsers ftp://ftp.math.utah.edu/pub/mirrors/www.knopper.net/KNOPPIX_V6.0-ADRIANE_V1.1CD-2009-01-27-EN.iso http://www.math.utah.edu/pub/mirrors/www.knopper.net/KNOPPIX_V6.0-ADRIANE_V1.1CD-2009-01-27-EN.iso Add the suffixes .md5 etc for the checksum and signature files. You can learn more about the Knoppix packaging of GNU/Linux here: http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - University of Utah FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@acm.org beebe@computer.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rll123 at sbcglobal.net Fri Feb 20 12:29:22 2009 From: rll123 at sbcglobal.net (Robert Lewis) Date: Fri Feb 20 11:55:08 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication Message-ID: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> Anyone have help for the following issue: This is SUSE 11.1. I used dd to make an exact image on two identical Model SATA drives. When I switch the drives and try to boot I get through the grub menu and then just past the OpenSUSE prompt where a horizontal grow bar appears where the kernel is being loaded it eventually times out with the following: Could not find /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5MQ3LATL-part2 Want to fall back to /dev/disk/by-id/ata/ST3500320AS_5MQ3LATL-part2 ? (Y/n) This procedure worked with ATA drives (I am now on SATA) in the past and I need it to work again. Are the serial numbers of the Drive being logged and examined or what? Any thoughts or suggestions most welcome? Cheers, Bob From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Fri Feb 20 12:44:58 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Fri Feb 20 12:10:50 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <499F083A.2040406@ridgecrestherbals.com> Most newer distributions mount drives by drive-ID, not drive address like they used to. In /etc/fstab, change the first entry from something like "UUID=23b5d002-e4ab-49c6-844c-81b9c014a28e" to "/dev/sda1" and it should work. Use "mount -a" or similar to test it before you reboot, or have a rescue disk handy, as a buggered fstab can make your root filesystem unbootable. Robert Lewis wrote: > Anyone have help for the following issue: > > This is SUSE 11.1. > > I used dd to make an exact image on two identical Model SATA drives. > When I switch the drives and try to boot I get through the grub menu and > then just past the OpenSUSE prompt where a horizontal grow bar appears > where the kernel is being loaded it eventually times out with the following: > Could not find /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5MQ3LATL-part2 > Want to fall back to /dev/disk/by-id/ata/ST3500320AS_5MQ3LATL-part2 ? (Y/n) > > This procedure worked with ATA drives (I am now on SATA) in the past and > I need > it to work again. > > Are the serial numbers of the Drive being logged and examined or what? > > Any thoughts or suggestions most welcome? > > Cheers, > Bob > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From bob.l.lewis at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 13:35:52 2009 From: bob.l.lewis at gmail.com (Robert Lewis) Date: Fri Feb 20 13:01:41 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <499F083A.2040406@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <499F083A.2040406@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Matt for the clue. I'll try this in a day or two as time permits. Meanwhile, here is what my /etc/fstab looks like and I don't see a UUID= /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part1 swap swap defaults 0 0 /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part2 / ext3 acl,user_xattr 1 1 /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part3 /home ext3 acl,user_xattr 1 2 proc /proc proc defaults 0 0 sysfs /sys sysfs noauto 0 0 debugfs /sys/kernel/debug debugfs noauto 0 0 usbfs /proc/bus/usb usbfs noauto 0 0 devpts /dev/pts devpts mode=0620,gid=5 0 0 On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Matt Warnock < mwarnock@ridgecrestherbals.com> wrote: > Most newer distributions mount drives by drive-ID, not drive address like > they used to. In /etc/fstab, change the first entry from something like > "UUID=23b5d002-e4ab-49c6-844c-81b9c014a28e" to "/dev/sda1" and it should > work. Use "mount -a" or similar to test it before you reboot, or have a > rescue disk handy, as a buggered fstab can make your root filesystem > unbootable. > > > > Robert Lewis wrote: > >> Anyone have help for the following issue: >> >> This is SUSE 11.1. >> >> I used dd to make an exact image on two identical Model SATA drives. >> When I switch the drives and try to boot I get through the grub menu and >> then just past the OpenSUSE prompt where a horizontal grow bar appears >> where the kernel is being loaded it eventually times out with the >> following: >> Could not find /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5MQ3LATL-part2 >> Want to fall back to /dev/disk/by-id/ata/ST3500320AS_5MQ3LATL-part2 ? >> (Y/n) >> >> This procedure worked with ATA drives (I am now on SATA) in the past and >> I need >> it to work again. >> >> Are the serial numbers of the Drive being logged and examined or what? >> >> Any thoughts or suggestions most welcome? >> >> Cheers, >> Bob >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> >> > -- > Matt Warnock, President > RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090220/cbd9223b/attachment.html From jshatch at azza.com Fri Feb 20 13:52:29 2009 From: jshatch at azza.com (Jarom Hatch) Date: Fri Feb 20 13:19:22 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <499F083A.2040406@ridgecrestherbals.com> <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <499F180D.9080507@azza.com> change /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part1 to /dev/sda1 /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part2 to /dev/sda2 /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part3 to /dev/sda3 You can double check what device it should be by doing a long list of /dev/disk/by-id/ ls -l /dev/disk/by-id/ lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 2009-02-17 02:25 ata-HITACHI_HTS542516K9SA00_080507BB6C02QGHNBGUG -> ../../sda lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2009-02-17 02:25 ata-HITACHI_HTS542516K9SA00_080507BB6C02QGHNBGUG-part1 -> ../../sda1 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2009-02-17 02:25 ata-HITACHI_HTS542516K9SA00_080507BB6C02QGHNBGUG-part2 -> ../../sda2 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2009-02-17 02:25 ata-HITACHI_HTS542516K9SA00_080507BB6C02QGHNBGUG-part3 -> ../../sda3 Jarom Robert Lewis wrote: > Thanks Matt for the clue. I'll try this in a day or two as time permits. > Meanwhile, here is what my /etc/fstab looks like and I don't see a > UUID= > > /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part1 swap > swap defaults 0 0 > /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part2 / > ext3 acl,user_xattr 1 1 > /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part3 /home > ext3 acl,user_xattr 1 2 > proc /proc proc > defaults 0 0 > sysfs /sys sysfs > noauto 0 0 > debugfs /sys/kernel/debug debugfs > noauto 0 0 > usbfs /proc/bus/usb usbfs > noauto 0 0 > devpts /dev/pts devpts > mode=0620,gid=5 0 0 > > > > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Matt Warnock > > > wrote: > > Most newer distributions mount drives by drive-ID, not drive address > like they used to. In /etc/fstab, change the first entry from > something like "UUID=23b5d002-e4ab-49c6-844c-81b9c014a28e" to > "/dev/sda1" and it should work. Use "mount -a" or similar to test > it before you reboot, or have a rescue disk handy, as a buggered > fstab can make your root filesystem unbootable. > > > > Robert Lewis wrote: > > Anyone have help for the following issue: > > This is SUSE 11.1. > > I used dd to make an exact image on two identical Model SATA drives. > When I switch the drives and try to boot I get through the grub > menu and > then just past the OpenSUSE prompt where a horizontal grow bar > appears > where the kernel is being loaded it eventually times out with > the following: > Could not find /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5MQ3LATL-part2 > Want to fall back to > /dev/disk/by-id/ata/ST3500320AS_5MQ3LATL-part2 ? (Y/n) > > This procedure worked with ATA drives (I am now on SATA) in the > past and > I need > it to work again. > > Are the serial numbers of the Drive being logged and examined or > what? > > Any thoughts or suggestions most welcome? > > Cheers, > Bob > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net > channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > -- > Matt Warnock, President > RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090220/854ccbd0/signature.pgp From bob.l.lewis at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 14:55:45 2009 From: bob.l.lewis at gmail.com (Robert Lewis) Date: Fri Feb 20 14:21:31 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <499F180D.9080507@azza.com> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <499F083A.2040406@ridgecrestherbals.com> <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> <499F180D.9080507@azza.com> Message-ID: <86d2b63e0902201355w29d56e06y462e161f04e63c92@mail.gmail.com> I now understand and am really appreciate of the responses from you folks. I would much rather understand than apply a solution by rote and so the lights are now turned on. Cheers, Bob ---- On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Jarom Hatch wrote: > change /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part1 to /dev/sda1 > /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part2 to /dev/sda2 > /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part3 to /dev/sda3 > > You can double check what device it should be by doing a long list of > /dev/disk/by-id/ > > ls -l /dev/disk/by-id/ > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 2009-02-17 02:25 > ata-HITACHI_HTS542516K9SA00_080507BB6C02QGHNBGUG -> ../../sda > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2009-02-17 02:25 > ata-HITACHI_HTS542516K9SA00_080507BB6C02QGHNBGUG-part1 -> ../../sda1 > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2009-02-17 02:25 > ata-HITACHI_HTS542516K9SA00_080507BB6C02QGHNBGUG-part2 -> ../../sda2 > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2009-02-17 02:25 > ata-HITACHI_HTS542516K9SA00_080507BB6C02QGHNBGUG-part3 -> ../../sda3 > > Jarom > > Robert Lewis wrote: > > Thanks Matt for the clue. I'll try this in a day or two as time permits. > > Meanwhile, here is what my /etc/fstab looks like and I don't see a > > UUID= > > > > /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part1 swap > > swap defaults 0 0 > > /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part2 / > > ext3 acl,user_xattr 1 1 > > /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part3 /home > > ext3 acl,user_xattr 1 2 > > proc /proc proc > > defaults 0 0 > > sysfs /sys sysfs > > noauto 0 0 > > debugfs /sys/kernel/debug debugfs > > noauto 0 0 > > usbfs /proc/bus/usb usbfs > > noauto 0 0 > > devpts /dev/pts devpts > > mode=0620,gid=5 0 0 > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Matt Warnock > > > > > wrote: > > > > Most newer distributions mount drives by drive-ID, not drive address > > like they used to. In /etc/fstab, change the first entry from > > something like "UUID=23b5d002-e4ab-49c6-844c-81b9c014a28e" to > > "/dev/sda1" and it should work. Use "mount -a" or similar to test > > it before you reboot, or have a rescue disk handy, as a buggered > > fstab can make your root filesystem unbootable. > > > > > > > > Robert Lewis wrote: > > > > Anyone have help for the following issue: > > > > This is SUSE 11.1. > > > > I used dd to make an exact image on two identical Model SATA > drives. > > When I switch the drives and try to boot I get through the grub > > menu and > > then just past the OpenSUSE prompt where a horizontal grow bar > > appears > > where the kernel is being loaded it eventually times out with > > the following: > > Could not find /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5MQ3LATL-part2 > > Want to fall back to > > /dev/disk/by-id/ata/ST3500320AS_5MQ3LATL-part2 ? (Y/n) > > > > This procedure worked with ATA drives (I am now on SATA) in the > > past and > > I need > > it to work again. > > > > Are the serial numbers of the Drive being logged and examined or > > what? > > > > Any thoughts or suggestions most welcome? > > > > Cheers, > > Bob > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, > links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net > > channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > > > > -- > > Matt Warnock, President > > RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090220/1c0bd0b8/attachment.html From bob.l.lewis at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 15:08:27 2009 From: bob.l.lewis at gmail.com (Robert Lewis) Date: Fri Feb 20 14:34:14 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <86d2b63e0902201355w29d56e06y462e161f04e63c92@mail.gmail.com> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <499F083A.2040406@ridgecrestherbals.com> <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> <499F180D.9080507@azza.com> <86d2b63e0902201355w29d56e06y462e161f04e63c92@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <86d2b63e0902201408t2a1411b6od0280bc67e3d6bc5@mail.gmail.com> One more idea based on your input. Would it be of any advantage to come up on a livecd which did automatically mount the new drives partitions from my earlier dd of the entire drive and edit and change the naming convention for the hardrive to reflect the serial number of the new drive in the following three files: /dev/disk/by-id/ (several symbolic links here to rename) /etc/fstab /boot/grub/menu.lst That way keeping the original methodology intact? Cheers. Bob ---- On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Robert Lewis wrote: > I now understand and am really appreciate of the responses > from you folks. I would much rather understand than apply a > solution by rote and so the lights are now turned on. > > Cheers, > Bob > ---- > > > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Jarom Hatch wrote: > >> change /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part1 to /dev/sda1 >> /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part2 to /dev/sda2 >> /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part3 to /dev/sda3 >> >> You can double check what device it should be by doing a long list of >> /dev/disk/by-id/ >> >> ls -l /dev/disk/by-id/ >> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 2009-02-17 02:25 >> ata-HITACHI_HTS542516K9SA00_080507BB6C02QGHNBGUG -> ../../sda >> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2009-02-17 02:25 >> ata-HITACHI_HTS542516K9SA00_080507BB6C02QGHNBGUG-part1 -> ../../sda1 >> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2009-02-17 02:25 >> ata-HITACHI_HTS542516K9SA00_080507BB6C02QGHNBGUG-part2 -> ../../sda2 >> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2009-02-17 02:25 >> ata-HITACHI_HTS542516K9SA00_080507BB6C02QGHNBGUG-part3 -> ../../sda3 >> >> Jarom >> >> Robert Lewis wrote: >> > Thanks Matt for the clue. I'll try this in a day or two as time >> permits. >> > Meanwhile, here is what my /etc/fstab looks like and I don't see a >> > UUID= >> > >> > /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part1 swap >> > swap defaults 0 0 >> > /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part2 / >> > ext3 acl,user_xattr 1 1 >> > /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part3 /home >> > ext3 acl,user_xattr 1 2 >> > proc /proc proc >> > defaults 0 0 >> > sysfs /sys sysfs >> > noauto 0 0 >> > debugfs /sys/kernel/debug debugfs >> > noauto 0 0 >> > usbfs /proc/bus/usb usbfs >> > noauto 0 0 >> > devpts /dev/pts devpts >> > mode=0620,gid=5 0 0 >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Matt Warnock >> > > >> >> > wrote: >> > >> > Most newer distributions mount drives by drive-ID, not drive address >> > like they used to. In /etc/fstab, change the first entry from >> > something like "UUID=23b5d002-e4ab-49c6-844c-81b9c014a28e" to >> > "/dev/sda1" and it should work. Use "mount -a" or similar to test >> > it before you reboot, or have a rescue disk handy, as a buggered >> > fstab can make your root filesystem unbootable. >> > >> > >> > >> > Robert Lewis wrote: >> > >> > Anyone have help for the following issue: >> > >> > This is SUSE 11.1. >> > >> > I used dd to make an exact image on two identical Model SATA >> drives. >> > When I switch the drives and try to boot I get through the grub >> > menu and >> > then just past the OpenSUSE prompt where a horizontal grow bar >> > appears >> > where the kernel is being loaded it eventually times out with >> > the following: >> > Could not find /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5MQ3LATL-part2 >> > Want to fall back to >> > /dev/disk/by-id/ata/ST3500320AS_5MQ3LATL-part2 ? (Y/n) >> > >> > This procedure worked with ATA drives (I am now on SATA) in the >> > past and >> > I need >> > it to work again. >> > >> > Are the serial numbers of the Drive being logged and examined or >> > what? >> > >> > Any thoughts or suggestions most welcome? >> > >> > Cheers, >> > Bob >> > >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, >> links. >> > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net >> > channel #Utah >> > sllug-members@sllug.org >> > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Matt Warnock, President >> > RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > >> > ______________________________________________________________________ >> > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> > sllug-members@sllug.org >> > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090220/048f6d45/attachment.htm From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Fri Feb 20 15:32:03 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Fri Feb 20 14:57:56 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <86d2b63e0902201408t2a1411b6od0280bc67e3d6bc5@mail.gmail.com> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <499F083A.2040406@ridgecrestherbals.com> <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> <499F180D.9080507@azza.com> <86d2b63e0902201355w29d56e06y462e161f04e63c92@mail.gmail.com> <86d2b63e0902201408t2a1411b6od0280bc67e3d6bc5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <499F2F63.7080805@ridgecrestherbals.com> /dev/disk/by-id/ is usually set up by the udev system upon each boot, so I doubt you need to change those. The others will be written by the live boot system or install, so if you change hardware (like swapping drive cables) later, they may need to be adjusted. Robert Lewis wrote: > One more idea based on your input. > Would it be of any advantage to come up on a livecd > which did automatically mount the new drives partitions from > my earlier dd of the entire drive and edit and change the > naming convention for the hardrive to reflect the serial number > of the new drive in the following three files: > > /dev/disk/by-id/ (several symbolic links here to rename) > /etc/fstab > /boot/grub/menu.lst > > That way keeping the original methodology intact? > > Cheers. > Bob > ---- > > > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 1:55 PM, Robert Lewis > wrote: > > I now understand and am really appreciate of the responses > from you folks. I would much rather understand than apply a > solution by rote and so the lights are now turned on. > > Cheers, > Bob > ---- > > > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 12:52 PM, Jarom Hatch > wrote: > > change /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part1 to /dev/sda1 > /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part2 to /dev/sda2 > /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part3 to /dev/sda3 > > You can double check what device it should be by doing a long > list of > /dev/disk/by-id/ > > ls -l /dev/disk/by-id/ > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 2009-02-17 02:25 > ata-HITACHI_HTS542516K9SA00_080507BB6C02QGHNBGUG -> ../../sda > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2009-02-17 02:25 > ata-HITACHI_HTS542516K9SA00_080507BB6C02QGHNBGUG-part1 -> ../../sda1 > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2009-02-17 02:25 > ata-HITACHI_HTS542516K9SA00_080507BB6C02QGHNBGUG-part2 -> ../../sda2 > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2009-02-17 02:25 > ata-HITACHI_HTS542516K9SA00_080507BB6C02QGHNBGUG-part3 -> ../../sda3 > > Jarom > > Robert Lewis wrote: > > Thanks Matt for the clue. I'll try this in a day or two as > time permits. > > Meanwhile, here is what my /etc/fstab looks like and I don't > see a > > UUID= > > > > /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part1 swap > > swap defaults 0 0 > > /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part2 / > > ext3 acl,user_xattr 1 1 > > /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5QM3LATL-part3 /home > > ext3 acl,user_xattr 1 2 > > proc /proc proc > > defaults 0 0 > > sysfs /sys sysfs > > noauto 0 0 > > debugfs /sys/kernel/debug debugfs > > noauto 0 0 > > usbfs /proc/bus/usb usbfs > > noauto 0 0 > > devpts /dev/pts devpts > > mode=0620,gid=5 0 0 > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Matt Warnock > > > >> > > wrote: > > > > Most newer distributions mount drives by drive-ID, not > drive address > > like they used to. In /etc/fstab, change the first entry > from > > something like "UUID=23b5d002-e4ab-49c6-844c-81b9c014a28e" to > > "/dev/sda1" and it should work. Use "mount -a" or > similar to test > > it before you reboot, or have a rescue disk handy, as a > buggered > > fstab can make your root filesystem unbootable. > > > > > > > > Robert Lewis wrote: > > > > Anyone have help for the following issue: > > > > This is SUSE 11.1. > > > > I used dd to make an exact image on two identical > Model SATA drives. > > When I switch the drives and try to boot I get > through the grub > > menu and > > then just past the OpenSUSE prompt where a horizontal > grow bar > > appears > > where the kernel is being loaded it eventually times > out with > > the following: > > Could not find > /dev/disk/by-id/ata-ST3500320AS_5MQ3LATL-part2 > > Want to fall back to > > /dev/disk/by-id/ata/ST3500320AS_5MQ3LATL-part2 ? (Y/n) > > > > This procedure worked with ATA drives (I am now on > SATA) in the > > past and > > I need > > it to work again. > > > > Are the serial numbers of the Drive being logged and > examined or > > what? > > > > Any thoughts or suggestions most welcome? > > > > Cheers, > > Bob > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, > information, links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on > irc.FreeNode.net > > channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > > > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > > > > -- > > Matt Warnock, President > > RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, > links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net > channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net > channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From marc at mecworks.com Fri Feb 20 19:11:50 2009 From: marc at mecworks.com (Marc Christensen) Date: Fri Feb 20 18:38:01 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <499F083A.2040406@ridgecrestherbals.com> <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <499F62E6.5020502@mecworks.com> Robert Lewis wrote: > Thanks Matt for the clue. I'll try this in a day or two as time permits. > Meanwhile, here is what my /etc/fstab looks like and I don't see a > UUID= [snip] > > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Matt Warnock > > > wrote: > > Most newer distributions mount drives by drive-ID, not drive address > like they used to. In /etc/fstab, change the first entry from > something like "UUID=23b5d002-e4ab-49c6-844c-81b9c014a28e" to > "/dev/sda1" and it should work. Use "mount -a" or similar to test > it before you reboot, or have a rescue disk handy, as a buggered > fstab can make your root filesystem unbootable. > You can also mount filesystems by label which is also transparent across images. For an XFS formatted root filesystem that has the label 'root', the line in your /etc/fstab may look something like this: LABEL=root / xfs noatime,nodiratime,logbufs=8,logbsize=32768 1 1 -- Marc Christensen http://blog.mecworks.com From roger at itigger.com Fri Feb 20 21:01:03 2009 From: roger at itigger.com (Roger Smith) Date: Fri Feb 20 20:27:18 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <499F62E6.5020502@mecworks.com> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> <499F62E6.5020502@mecworks.com> Message-ID: <200902202201.03614.roger@itigger.com> On Friday 20 February 2009 8:11:50 pm Marc Christensen wrote: > You can also mount filesystems by label which is also transparent across > images. I have never liked relying on labels as mount targets. But, after hearing that stupid distros are using the drive ID as a device reference, labels seem pretty damn awesome. It must be a silly distribution like Mandrake or SUSE. -- Roger From bob.l.lewis at gmail.com Sat Feb 21 09:43:58 2009 From: bob.l.lewis at gmail.com (Robert Lewis) Date: Sat Feb 21 09:09:39 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <200902202201.03614.roger@itigger.com> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> <499F62E6.5020502@mecworks.com> <200902202201.03614.roger@itigger.com> Message-ID: <86d2b63e0902210843x5a39a7d4u39a6351b35ab48f3@mail.gmail.com> It is SUSE 11.1 I tested this morning and everything worked after reading this thread and after editing /boot/grub/menu.lst and /etc/fstab. However, I really think if only one boot device is presented to the bios that it should boot without having to edit stuff. In addition, some of you may be interested in the following stats: dd if=sda of=sdb bs=512 Took 8.7 hrs. for 500-GB harddrive dd if=sda of=sdb bs=32256 Took 3.8 hrs. for 500-GB harddrive In additon the above two Seagate drives now have f/w replaced from the original SD15 to now the SD1A. Cheers, Bob ---- On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Roger Smith wrote: > On Friday 20 February 2009 8:11:50 pm Marc Christensen wrote: > > You can also mount filesystems by label which is also transparent across > > images. > > I have never liked relying on labels as mount targets. But, after hearing > that > stupid distros are using the drive ID as a device reference, labels seem > pretty damn awesome. It must be a silly distribution like Mandrake or > SUSE. > > -- > Roger > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090221/85373731/attachment.htm From sjansen at buscaluz.org Sat Feb 21 10:05:23 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Sat Feb 21 09:31:09 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <200902202201.03614.roger@itigger.com> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> <499F62E6.5020502@mecworks.com> <200902202201.03614.roger@itigger.com> Message-ID: <1235235923.32295.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2009-02-20 at 22:01 -0600, Roger Smith wrote: > On Friday 20 February 2009 8:11:50 pm Marc Christensen wrote: > > You can also mount filesystems by label which is also transparent across > > images. > > I have never liked relying on labels as mount targets. But, after hearing that > stupid distros are using the drive ID as a device reference, labels seem > pretty damn awesome. It must be a silly distribution like Mandrake or SUSE. Actually, it is pretty much every major distro. Ubuntu, openSUSE, Fedora, etc. I am curious why you think it is the distros that are stupid considering that they used to do what you suggest but have now found reason to change. Perhaps it is you who has the lack of understanding? -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Sat Feb 21 10:46:59 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Sat Feb 21 10:12:45 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <86d2b63e0902210843x5a39a7d4u39a6351b35ab48f3@mail.gmail.com> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> <499F62E6.5020502@mecworks.com> <200902202201.03614.roger@itigger.com> <86d2b63e0902210843x5a39a7d4u39a6351b35ab48f3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49A03E13.4010201@ridgecrestherbals.com> If only one boot device is presented, it will "boot" without editing-- but where does it go from there? When you "dd" one drive to another, then two bootable drives are presented. Plug in a CDROM, a DVD, and a USB thumb drive, and 5 boot devices are presented. The BIOS will determine actual boot order, and that drive's boot sector (GRUB or LILO) will be booted. Both GRUB and LILO pack a lot of function into the 512 bytes of the boot sector. They can chain to other drives that the BIOS can't boot, they can choose from multiple kernels and different configurations of those kernels, and they can get user input to select something other than the default values. All these options require a powerful configuration file which is usually written at installation, but can be edited afterward to suit your needs and hardware. If the configuration file doesn't match the hardware, those 512 bytes don't (and can't) have enough intelligence to be able to find all the possible hardware options. If they did, it would involve re-detecting every possible piece of hardware on the system, slowing the boot process dramatically. That is one reason (along with CD read speeds) why Knoppix and other live CDs boot a lot more slowly than typical HD-installed distributions, which actually use LILO/GRUB to load the kernel and a root ramdisk for boot speed. You can easily destroy the "match" between the GRUB/LILO config file and the hardware by 1) editing the file incorrectly, or 2) changing the hardware (like plugging in an extra boot drive, or worse, plugging a configured boot drive into a whole new computer). Furthermore, once the initial root disk is loaded, most distributions switch from the ramdisk to the "real" root disk partition by re-mounting the new root, so if the new root drive's /etc/fstab doesn't match the hardware, you have a whole new possible source of problems. So while I understand your frustration, this is the cost of flexibility. Step off the beaten track (the distribution install) and the complexity can no longer be completely managed for you-- you do need to know what you're doing. Robert Lewis wrote: > It is SUSE 11.1 > I tested this morning and everything worked after reading this thread > and after editing /boot/grub/menu.lst and /etc/fstab. > However, I really think if only one boot device is presented to the bios > that it should boot without having to edit stuff. > > In addition, some of you may be interested in the following stats: > dd if=sda of=sdb bs=512 Took 8.7 hrs. for 500-GB harddrive > dd if=sda of=sdb bs=32256 Took 3.8 hrs. for 500-GB harddrive > > In additon the above two Seagate drives now have f/w replaced > from the original SD15 to now the SD1A. > > Cheers, > Bob > ---- > > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Roger Smith > wrote: > > On Friday 20 February 2009 8:11:50 pm Marc Christensen wrote: > > You can also mount filesystems by label which is also transparent > across > > images. > > I have never liked relying on labels as mount targets. But, after > hearing that > stupid distros are using the drive ID as a device reference, labels seem > pretty damn awesome. It must be a silly distribution like Mandrake > or SUSE. > > -- > Roger > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net > channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From sjansen at buscaluz.org Sat Feb 21 11:35:40 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Sat Feb 21 11:01:19 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <49A03E13.4010201@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> <499F62E6.5020502@mecworks.com> <200902202201.03614.roger@itigger.com> <86d2b63e0902210843x5a39a7d4u39a6351b35ab48f3@mail.gmail.com> <49A03E13.4010201@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <1235241340.32295.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2009-02-21 at 10:46 -0700, Matt Warnock wrote: > Both GRUB and LILO pack a lot of function into the 512 bytes of the boot > sector. Actually, the boot loader code in the MBR is only about 440 bytes and it isn't capable of miracles. Modern boot loaders, like GRUB, take a two stage approach. The code in the MBR (Stage 1) is responsible for loading all of the functionality you're talking about (Stage 2) from the filesystem of the OS that installed the boot loader. (If you want to muddy the water a little, you could bring up GRUB's support for Stage 1.5 drivers. For the curious, Wikipedia has a great article.) -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From sjansen at buscaluz.org Sat Feb 21 12:03:56 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Sat Feb 21 11:29:35 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <49A03E13.4010201@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> <499F62E6.5020502@mecworks.com> <200902202201.03614.roger@itigger.com> <86d2b63e0902210843x5a39a7d4u39a6351b35ab48f3@mail.gmail.com> <49A03E13.4010201@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <1235243036.32295.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2009-02-21 at 10:46 -0700, Matt Warnock wrote: > If the configuration file doesn't match the hardware, those 512 bytes > don't (and can't) have enough intelligence to be able to find all the > possible hardware options. If they did, it would involve re-detecting > every possible piece of hardware on the system, slowing the boot process > dramatically. I should have also pointed out that waiting for hardware to settle into a stable state after powering on is slow, especially when performed by ancient 16 bit BIOS code instead of something more modern like Coreboot. But most boot loaders use the device information already collected by the BIOS. so I don't see why you're claiming a need to re-scan. Because modern boot loaders have the ability to load code from an actual filesystem, they are not as limited as you suggest. Scanning all available devices and partition isn't free, but it wouldn't take nearly so long as you imply. For example, have you ever used the GRUB command "find"? In my experience it is able to locate the /etc/passwd file fast enough to appear instantaneous. > That is one reason (along with CD read speeds) why > Knoppix and other live CDs boot a lot more slowly than typical > HD-installed distributions, which actually use LILO/GRUB to load the > kernel and a root ramdisk for boot speed. Actually, the biggest reason that Live CD solutions are slow is that optical drives are slow. The problems you cite aren't insurmountable. Besides, you setup and argued against the exact opposite situation Robert Lewis cared about. He didn't try to boot the system with both the original and cloned disk, "a CDROM, a DVD, and a USB thumb drive, [for a total of] 5 boot devices". He said: "However, I really think if only one boot device is presented to the bios that it should boot without having to edit stuff." And he is right, there's still plenty of room to improve the robustness and flexibility of the Linux boot process. The current status quo is not set in stone, it is not forced on us by insurmountable technical challenges. Instead it is largely a result of holding onto legacy technologies because too few people have bothered to ask "why aren't we doing something smarter?" -- When you tell me I should give proprietary software a fair technical evaluation because its features are so nice, what you are actually doing is saying "Look at the shine on those manacles!" to someone who remembers feeling like a slave. -- Eric S. Raymond From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Sat Feb 21 13:13:26 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Sat Feb 21 12:39:15 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <1235243036.32295.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> <499F62E6.5020502@mecworks.com> <200902202201.03614.roger@itigger.com> <86d2b63e0902210843x5a39a7d4u39a6351b35ab48f3@mail.gmail.com> <49A03E13.4010201@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1235243036.32295.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49A06066.80005@ridgecrestherbals.com> I generally agree with you, but I was obviously simplifying (or over-simplifying). My point was that complaining about the current non-DWIM (Do What I Mean) state of affairs doesn't really help much, a point which you also made earlier. There is always only one "boot" device presented or booted, in the sense that the BIOS may look in more than one place (in a configurable order) for a boot sector, but it always only boots one. It is up to that boot device to contain the code and configuration (boot, 1.5, kernel, ramdisk and root, and additional disk/resources) needed to create a running system. My point was, the boot process can be very flexible (and complex) to meet different needs. If your own needs are different, with Linux you need to figure out what you need, and do that. Some of it is cultural-- many people who use Linux would rather have it complain and halt when it finds a boot problem than have it automagically "do the right thing" which different people may obviously disagree on. Especially when the boot environment can change as easily as inserting a thumbdrive, which was my other point. But Robert is right that cloning a software image on mostly identical hardware, plugging the clone in place of the original, and not having it boot just like the first one is a bit counter-intuitive. He did just the right thing by asking, and I tried to explain, though I DON'T know why most distribs use UUID rather than LABEL or /dev/sdX anymore. I tend to be old-school, and I like the old ways better myself. I assume it may have something to do with volume managers or something. Or maybe they don't want a mirrored (RAID 0?) drive booting automagically (as a second choice, because the boot sector was missing/corrupted on the real "boot" drive) without an appropriate complaint. Maybe someone else knows? Sure, it might be nice if an installed system would re-scan everything and try harder to boot correctly if something dramatic has changed (which I assumed was Robert's complaint, though I think he underestimated the complexity he introduced by cloning the drive), and maybe it will someday, but nobody does it yet (esp. not OSX or Windoze). In my experience live-CD distributions (possibly installed to thumbdrives or USB hard drives for speed) probably come the closest to "universal boot", assuming the BIOS supports USB boot at all, which is why I mentioned them. And yes, they do boot a little slower than the native installs, which know exactly which drivers to load for the configured system. I don't know whether any other OS would support cloning a drive as he has done here. I know Windows checks device IDs and would require re-registration if the hardware changes enough, though I don't know whether the changed device ID in a cloned drive would trigger it. I guess the real answer is that modern devices have device IDs, and you can't assume that a cloned drive is exactly the same anymore, because modern systems actually use the device IDs, and not just for copy protection anymore. Stuart Jansen wrote: > On Sat, 2009-02-21 at 10:46 -0700, Matt Warnock wrote: >> If the configuration file doesn't match the hardware, those 512 bytes >> don't (and can't) have enough intelligence to be able to find all the >> possible hardware options. If they did, it would involve re-detecting >> every possible piece of hardware on the system, slowing the boot process >> dramatically. > > I should have also pointed out that waiting for hardware to settle into > a stable state after powering on is slow, especially when performed by > ancient 16 bit BIOS code instead of something more modern like Coreboot. > But most boot loaders use the device information already collected by > the BIOS. so I don't see why you're claiming a need to re-scan. Because > modern boot loaders have the ability to load code from an actual > filesystem, they are not as limited as you suggest. > > Scanning all available devices and partition isn't free, but it wouldn't > take nearly so long as you imply. For example, have you ever used the > GRUB command "find"? In my experience it is able to locate > the /etc/passwd file fast enough to appear instantaneous. > >> That is one reason (along with CD read speeds) why >> Knoppix and other live CDs boot a lot more slowly than typical >> HD-installed distributions, which actually use LILO/GRUB to load the >> kernel and a root ramdisk for boot speed. > > Actually, the biggest reason that Live CD solutions are slow is that > optical drives are slow. > > The problems you cite aren't insurmountable. Besides, you setup and > argued against the exact opposite situation Robert Lewis cared about. He > didn't try to boot the system with both the original and cloned disk, "a > CDROM, a DVD, and a USB thumb drive, [for a total of] 5 boot devices". > He said: "However, I really think if only one boot device is presented > to the bios that it should boot without having to edit stuff." And he is > right, there's still plenty of room to improve the robustness and > flexibility of the Linux boot process. > > The current status quo is not set in stone, it is not forced on us by > insurmountable technical challenges. Instead it is largely a result of > holding onto legacy technologies because too few people have bothered to > ask "why aren't we doing something smarter?" > -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From bob.l.lewis at gmail.com Sat Feb 21 15:20:54 2009 From: bob.l.lewis at gmail.com (Robert Lewis) Date: Sat Feb 21 14:46:41 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <49A06066.80005@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> <499F62E6.5020502@mecworks.com> <200902202201.03614.roger@itigger.com> <86d2b63e0902210843x5a39a7d4u39a6351b35ab48f3@mail.gmail.com> <49A03E13.4010201@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1235243036.32295.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <49A06066.80005@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <86d2b63e0902211420r4e800839nc5e8fc1a2f58c9a@mail.gmail.com> You guys are great and I really appreciate the discussion and all the input. I don't like groups that put others down in the dialogue and this discussion has remained at a high level. Some added history for grins. With 10.? SUSE versions I was using ATA drives and did the dd copy to disk for protection in case the original went bad once a month or so. The drives were in Vantec cases where they could be removed and swapped from the front of the machine. I did incrementals when I felt like it. This always worked, that is I could swap drives and come up on the copied disk without any extra editing, it just worked. When 11.0 came out I switched to a 15K fast/wide SCSI system and stopped using the above technique. I decided recently to de-commission the SCSI drives to reduce current drain, heat and make the system a bit quieter. I also wanted to try out a SATA drive since I have never had one in the past. The price was to tempting to pass up. I built (radio-shack) a switch box which allows me to power up or down the secondary identical drive to make it easy for me to do the copy and have almost zero run time on the backup. Works great. Now I have four SCSI drives I no longer need and wish to sell. If anyone is interested then give me a shout. Cheers, Bob ---- On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Matt Warnock < mwarnock@ridgecrestherbals.com> wrote: > I generally agree with you, but I was obviously simplifying (or > over-simplifying). My point was that complaining about the current non-DWIM > (Do What I Mean) state of affairs doesn't really help much, a point which > you also made earlier. > > There is always only one "boot" device presented or booted, in the sense > that the BIOS may look in more than one place (in a configurable order) for > a boot sector, but it always only boots one. It is up to that boot device > to contain the code and configuration (boot, 1.5, kernel, ramdisk and root, > and additional disk/resources) needed to create a running system. > > My point was, the boot process can be very flexible (and complex) to meet > different needs. If your own needs are different, with Linux you need to > figure out what you need, and do that. Some of it is cultural-- many people > who use Linux would rather have it complain and halt when it finds a boot > problem than have it automagically "do the right thing" which different > people may obviously disagree on. Especially when the boot environment can > change as easily as inserting a thumbdrive, which was my other point. > > But Robert is right that cloning a software image on mostly identical > hardware, plugging the clone in place of the original, and not having it > boot just like the first one is a bit counter-intuitive. He did just the > right thing by asking, and I tried to explain, though I DON'T know why most > distribs use UUID rather than LABEL or /dev/sdX anymore. I tend to be > old-school, and I like the old ways better myself. I assume it may have > something to do with volume managers or something. Or maybe they don't want > a mirrored (RAID 0?) drive booting automagically (as a second choice, > because the boot sector was missing/corrupted on the real "boot" drive) > without an appropriate complaint. Maybe someone else knows? > > Sure, it might be nice if an installed system would re-scan everything and > try harder to boot correctly if something dramatic has changed (which I > assumed was Robert's complaint, though I think he underestimated the > complexity he introduced by cloning the drive), and maybe it will someday, > but nobody does it yet (esp. not OSX or Windoze). In my experience live-CD > distributions (possibly installed to thumbdrives or USB hard drives for > speed) probably come the closest to "universal boot", assuming the BIOS > supports USB boot at all, which is why I mentioned them. And yes, they do > boot a little slower than the native installs, which know exactly which > drivers to load for the configured system. I don't know whether any other > OS would support cloning a drive as he has done here. I know Windows checks > device IDs and would require re-registration if the hardware changes enough, > though I don't know whether the changed device ID in a cloned drive would > trigger it. > > I guess the real answer is that modern devices have device IDs, and you > can't assume that a cloned drive is exactly the same anymore, because modern > systems actually use the device IDs, and not just for copy protection > anymore. > > Stuart Jansen wrote: > >> On Sat, 2009-02-21 at 10:46 -0700, Matt Warnock wrote: >> >>> If the configuration file doesn't match the hardware, those 512 bytes >>> don't (and can't) have enough intelligence to be able to find all the >>> possible hardware options. If they did, it would involve re-detecting every >>> possible piece of hardware on the system, slowing the boot process >>> dramatically. >>> >> >> I should have also pointed out that waiting for hardware to settle into >> a stable state after powering on is slow, especially when performed by >> ancient 16 bit BIOS code instead of something more modern like Coreboot. >> But most boot loaders use the device information already collected by >> the BIOS. so I don't see why you're claiming a need to re-scan. Because >> modern boot loaders have the ability to load code from an actual >> filesystem, they are not as limited as you suggest. >> >> Scanning all available devices and partition isn't free, but it wouldn't >> take nearly so long as you imply. For example, have you ever used the >> GRUB command "find"? In my experience it is able to locate >> the /etc/passwd file fast enough to appear instantaneous. >> >> That is one reason (along with CD read speeds) why Knoppix and other live >>> CDs boot a lot more slowly than typical HD-installed distributions, which >>> actually use LILO/GRUB to load the kernel and a root ramdisk for boot speed. >>> >> >> Actually, the biggest reason that Live CD solutions are slow is that >> optical drives are slow. >> >> The problems you cite aren't insurmountable. Besides, you setup and >> argued against the exact opposite situation Robert Lewis cared about. He >> didn't try to boot the system with both the original and cloned disk, "a >> CDROM, a DVD, and a USB thumb drive, [for a total of] 5 boot devices". >> He said: "However, I really think if only one boot device is presented >> to the bios that it should boot without having to edit stuff." And he is >> right, there's still plenty of room to improve the robustness and >> flexibility of the Linux boot process. >> >> The current status quo is not set in stone, it is not forced on us by >> insurmountable technical challenges. Instead it is largely a result of >> holding onto legacy technologies because too few people have bothered to >> ask "why aren't we doing something smarter?" >> >> > -- > Matt Warnock, President > RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090221/421913e3/attachment.html From rll123 at sbcglobal.net Sat Feb 21 16:43:28 2009 From: rll123 at sbcglobal.net (Robert Lewis) Date: Sat Feb 21 16:09:13 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.2 Message-ID: <49A091A0.1020604@sbcglobal.net> Anyone know where the adjustment for the user locked screen timeout values might be? Is there a GUI interface ? When I have inactivity for some unknown period of time or we bring up a second login screen on F8 then after some period of time my screen gets locked and I have to type my password to re-enter. This is a good feature for business or potential unsecure areas. However, this machine is in my office at my home and would like know how to set the interval myself and/or turn it off. So far I haven't found within either YaST or right clicking and looking through the Appearance Settings screens. Also, I have nosed around in the Configure Desktop setting from the SUSE 11.1 kickoff. Cheers, Bob From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Sat Feb 21 16:55:06 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Sat Feb 21 16:20:53 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <86d2b63e0902211420r4e800839nc5e8fc1a2f58c9a@mail.gmail.com> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> <499F62E6.5020502@mecworks.com> <200902202201.03614.roger@itigger.com> <86d2b63e0902210843x5a39a7d4u39a6351b35ab48f3@mail.gmail.com> <49A03E13.4010201@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1235243036.32295.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <49A06066.80005@ridgecrestherbals.com> <86d2b63e0902211420r4e800839nc5e8fc1a2f58c9a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49A0945A.2010707@ridgecrestherbals.com> Wow, dd for backups seems like a dangerous way to go. First you'd want the filesystem to be quiescent, meaning you'd want to do it after a clean boot and before the root system is remounted read-write, which is a bit awkward for a multiuser or a server system. Second the copy would take a long time with a large disk, and most of it would not have changed since the last copy. I prefer to use rsync to backup the important parts of the root system to a spare drive (which doesn't have to be identical in size) mounted on /bak. I only copy the root system, with --one-file-system so it won't copy /proc, /dev, /sys, and other mounts. It's not quite as easy, but it isn't too bad, and I can run it anytime, including from a cron job. I can then also copy that stuff to an offsite location via ssh. Rsync keeps the job fast, as it doesn't copy what hasn't changed. That way I get a backup drive that I can mount as root with just a little tweaking if the primary goes south, and I can also store other stuff (like the offsite backups mentioned above) on the /bak drive. Robert Lewis wrote: > You guys are great and I really appreciate the discussion and > all the input. I don't like groups that put others down in the dialogue > and this discussion has remained at a high level. > > Some added history for grins. > > With 10.? SUSE versions I was using ATA drives and did the > dd copy to disk for protection in case the original went bad > once a month or so. The drives were in Vantec cases where > they could be removed and swapped from the front of the machine. I did > incrementals when I felt like it. > This always worked, that is I could swap drives and come up on the > copied disk without any extra editing, it just worked. > > When 11.0 came out I switched to a 15K fast/wide SCSI system and stopped > using the above technique. I decided recently to de-commission the SCSI > drives to reduce current drain, heat and make the system a bit quieter. > > I also wanted to try out a SATA drive since I have never had one in the > past. The price was to tempting to pass up. I built (radio-shack) a > switch box which allows me to power up or down the secondary identical > drive to make it easy for me to do the copy and have almost zero run > time on the backup. Works great. > > Now I have four SCSI drives I no longer need and wish to sell. If > anyone is interested then give me a shout. > > Cheers, > Bob > ---- -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From bob.l.lewis at gmail.com Sat Feb 21 17:01:52 2009 From: bob.l.lewis at gmail.com (Robert Lewis) Date: Sat Feb 21 16:27:32 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <49A0945A.2010707@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> <499F62E6.5020502@mecworks.com> <200902202201.03614.roger@itigger.com> <86d2b63e0902210843x5a39a7d4u39a6351b35ab48f3@mail.gmail.com> <49A03E13.4010201@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1235243036.32295.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <49A06066.80005@ridgecrestherbals.com> <86d2b63e0902211420r4e800839nc5e8fc1a2f58c9a@mail.gmail.com> <49A0945A.2010707@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <86d2b63e0902211601o85a172emece33f3ec57ce601@mail.gmail.com> Actually, I use a livecd to do the backup so the filesystem isn't mounted. I totally agree it is inefficient because I am copying tons of disk space that has no files. Another method would be faster for sure. I do use rsync for my incrementals to an external USB. Cheers,* Bob --- * On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 3:55 PM, Matt Warnock < mwarnock@ridgecrestherbals.com> wrote: > Wow, dd for backups seems like a dangerous way to go. First you'd want the > filesystem to be quiescent, meaning you'd want to do it after a clean boot > and before the root system is remounted read-write, which is a bit awkward > for a multiuser or a server system. Second the copy would take a long time > with a large disk, and most of it would not have changed since the last > copy. > > I prefer to use rsync to backup the important parts of the root system to a > spare drive (which doesn't have to be identical in size) mounted on /bak. I > only copy the root system, with --one-file-system so it won't copy /proc, > /dev, /sys, and other mounts. It's not quite as easy, but it isn't too bad, > and I can run it anytime, including from a cron job. I can then also copy > that stuff to an offsite location via ssh. > > Rsync keeps the job fast, as it doesn't copy what hasn't changed. That way > I get a backup drive that I can mount as root with just a little tweaking if > the primary goes south, and I can also store other stuff (like the offsite > backups mentioned above) on the /bak drive. > > Robert Lewis wrote: > >> You guys are great and I really appreciate the discussion and >> all the input. I don't like groups that put others down in the dialogue >> and this discussion has remained at a high level. >> >> Some added history for grins. >> >> With 10.? SUSE versions I was using ATA drives and did the >> dd copy to disk for protection in case the original went bad >> once a month or so. The drives were in Vantec cases where >> they could be removed and swapped from the front of the machine. I did >> incrementals when I felt like it. >> This always worked, that is I could swap drives and come up on the copied >> disk without any extra editing, it just worked. >> >> When 11.0 came out I switched to a 15K fast/wide SCSI system and stopped >> using the above technique. I decided recently to de-commission the SCSI >> drives to reduce current drain, heat and make the system a bit quieter. >> I also wanted to try out a SATA drive since I have never had one in the >> past. The price was to tempting to pass up. I built (radio-shack) a >> switch box which allows me to power up or down the secondary identical drive >> to make it easy for me to do the copy and have almost zero run time on the >> backup. Works great. >> >> Now I have four SCSI drives I no longer need and wish to sell. If anyone >> is interested then give me a shout. >> >> Cheers, >> Bob >> ---- >> > -- > Matt Warnock, President > RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090221/6f953ded/attachment.htm From remo at italy1.com Sat Feb 21 17:23:29 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (Remo Mattei) Date: Sat Feb 21 16:49:22 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <86d2b63e0902211420r4e800839nc5e8fc1a2f58c9a@mail.gmail.com> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> <499F62E6.5020502@mecworks.com> <200902202201.03614.roger@itigger.com> <86d2b63e0902210843x5a39a7d4u39a6351b35ab48f3@mail.gmail.com> <49A03E13.4010201@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1235243036.32295.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <49A06066.80005@ridgecrestherbals.com> <86d2b63e0902211420r4e800839nc5e8fc1a2f58c9a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <81860176-91CA-47C6-8525-1596D74A7432@italy1.com> What size those drive? Reno Inviato da iPhone Il giorno 21/feb/09, alle ore 15:20, Robert Lewis ha scritto: > You guys are great and I really appreciate the discussion and > all the input. I don't like groups that put others down in the > dialogue and this discussion has remained at a high level. > > Some added history for grins. > > With 10.? SUSE versions I was using ATA drives and did the > dd copy to disk for protection in case the original went bad > once a month or so. The drives were in Vantec cases where > they could be removed and swapped from the front of the machine. I > did incrementals when I felt like it. > This always worked, that is I could swap drives and come up on the > copied disk without any extra editing, it just worked. > > When 11.0 came out I switched to a 15K fast/wide SCSI system and > stopped using the above technique. I decided recently to de- > commission the SCSI drives to reduce current drain, heat and make > the system a bit quieter. > > I also wanted to try out a SATA drive since I have never had one in > the past. The price was to tempting to pass up. I built (radio- > shack) a switch box which allows me to power up or down the > secondary identical drive to make it easy for me to do the copy and > have almost zero run time on the backup. Works great. > > Now I have four SCSI drives I no longer need and wish to sell. If > anyone is interested then give me a shout. > > Cheers, > Bob > ---- > > On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Matt Warnock > wrote: > I generally agree with you, but I was obviously simplifying (or over- > simplifying). My point was that complaining about the current non- > DWIM (Do What I Mean) state of affairs doesn't really help much, a > point which you also made earlier. > > There is always only one "boot" device presented or booted, in the > sense that the BIOS may look in more than one place (in a > configurable order) for a boot sector, but it always only boots > one. It is up to that boot device to contain the code and > configuration (boot, 1.5, kernel, ramdisk and root, and additional > disk/resources) needed to create a running system. > > My point was, the boot process can be very flexible (and complex) to > meet different needs. If your own needs are different, with Linux > you need to figure out what you need, and do that. Some of it is > cultural-- many people who use Linux would rather have it complain > and halt when it finds a boot problem than have it automagically "do > the right thing" which different people may obviously disagree on. > Especially when the boot environment can change as easily as > inserting a thumbdrive, which was my other point. > > But Robert is right that cloning a software image on mostly > identical hardware, plugging the clone in place of the original, and > not having it boot just like the first one is a bit counter- > intuitive. He did just the right thing by asking, and I tried to > explain, though I DON'T know why most distribs use UUID rather than > LABEL or /dev/sdX anymore. I tend to be old-school, and I like the > old ways better myself. I assume it may have something to do with > volume managers or something. Or maybe they don't want a mirrored > (RAID 0?) drive booting automagically (as a second choice, because > the boot sector was missing/corrupted on the real "boot" drive) > without an appropriate complaint. Maybe someone else knows? > > Sure, it might be nice if an installed system would re-scan > everything and try harder to boot correctly if something dramatic > has changed (which I assumed was Robert's complaint, though I think > he underestimated the complexity he introduced by cloning the > drive), and maybe it will someday, but nobody does it yet (esp. not > OSX or Windoze). In my experience live-CD distributions (possibly > installed to thumbdrives or USB hard drives for speed) probably come > the closest to "universal boot", assuming the BIOS supports USB boot > at all, which is why I mentioned them. And yes, they do boot a > little slower than the native installs, which know exactly which > drivers to load for the configured system. I don't know whether any > other OS would support cloning a drive as he has done here. I know > Windows checks device IDs and would require re-registration if the > hardware changes enough, though I don't know whether the changed > device ID in a cloned drive would trigger it. > > I guess the real answer is that modern devices have device IDs, and > you can't assume that a cloned drive is exactly the same anymore, > because modern systems actually use the device IDs, and not just for > copy protection anymore. > > Stuart Jansen wrote: > On Sat, 2009-02-21 at 10:46 -0700, Matt Warnock wrote: > If the configuration file doesn't match the hardware, those 512 > bytes don't (and can't) have enough intelligence to be able to find > all the possible hardware options. If they did, it would involve re- > detecting every possible piece of hardware on the system, slowing > the boot process dramatically. > > I should have also pointed out that waiting for hardware to settle > into > a stable state after powering on is slow, especially when performed by > ancient 16 bit BIOS code instead of something more modern like > Coreboot. > But most boot loaders use the device information already collected by > the BIOS. so I don't see why you're claiming a need to re-scan. > Because > modern boot loaders have the ability to load code from an actual > filesystem, they are not as limited as you suggest. > > Scanning all available devices and partition isn't free, but it > wouldn't > take nearly so long as you imply. For example, have you ever used the > GRUB command "find"? In my experience it is able to locate > the /etc/passwd file fast enough to appear instantaneous. > > That is one reason (along with CD read speeds) why Knoppix and other > live CDs boot a lot more slowly than typical HD-installed > distributions, which actually use LILO/GRUB to load the kernel and a > root ramdisk for boot speed. > > Actually, the biggest reason that Live CD solutions are slow is that > optical drives are slow. > > The problems you cite aren't insurmountable. Besides, you setup and > argued against the exact opposite situation Robert Lewis cared > about. He > didn't try to boot the system with both the original and cloned > disk, "a > CDROM, a DVD, and a USB thumb drive, [for a total of] 5 boot devices". > He said: "However, I really think if only one boot device is presented > to the bios that it should boot without having to edit stuff." And > he is > right, there's still plenty of room to improve the robustness and > flexibility of the Linux boot process. > > The current status quo is not set in stone, it is not forced on us by > insurmountable technical challenges. Instead it is largely a result of > holding onto legacy technologies because too few people have > bothered to > ask "why aren't we doing something smarter?" > > > -- > Matt Warnock, President > RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > !DSPAM:49a07f0a301311215114932! > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > !DSPAM:49a07f0a301311215114932! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090221/49e67ddb/attachment.html From bob.l.lewis at gmail.com Sat Feb 21 17:29:21 2009 From: bob.l.lewis at gmail.com (Robert Lewis) Date: Sat Feb 21 16:55:07 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <81860176-91CA-47C6-8525-1596D74A7432@italy1.com> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> <499F62E6.5020502@mecworks.com> <200902202201.03614.roger@itigger.com> <86d2b63e0902210843x5a39a7d4u39a6351b35ab48f3@mail.gmail.com> <49A03E13.4010201@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1235243036.32295.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <49A06066.80005@ridgecrestherbals.com> <86d2b63e0902211420r4e800839nc5e8fc1a2f58c9a@mail.gmail.com> <81860176-91CA-47C6-8525-1596D74A7432@italy1.com> Message-ID: <86d2b63e0902211629l35d68916i767698eccc21cfd7@mail.gmail.com> The prices are from WEB sites on these drives. Any offer considered. Bob --- 2-Fujitsu MAS3367NP Ultra SCSI 36-GB 15K RPM $642.00 http://yhst-6614098683248.stores.yahoo.net/fuma36scu3151.html The site above shows this going for $219.95.00 2-Fujitsu MAS3735NP Ultra SCSI 73-GB 15K RPM $1,086.88 The site below shows the drive currently at $602.99 so they have been dropping in price. http://www.superwarehouse.com/p.cfm?p=240518&CMP=KAC-GoogleShopping&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=240518 On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Remo Mattei wrote: > What size those drive? > > Reno > > Inviato da iPhone > > Il giorno 21/feb/09, alle ore 15:20, Robert Lewis > ha scritto: > > You guys are great and I really appreciate the discussion and > all the input. I don't like groups that put others down in the dialogue > and this discussion has remained at a high level. > > Some added history for grins. > > With 10.? SUSE versions I was using ATA drives and did the > dd copy to disk for protection in case the original went bad > once a month or so. The drives were in Vantec cases where > they could be removed and swapped from the front of the machine. I did > incrementals when I felt like it. > This always worked, that is I could swap drives and come up on the copied > disk without any extra editing, it just worked. > > When 11.0 came out I switched to a 15K fast/wide SCSI system and stopped > using the above technique. I decided recently to de-commission the SCSI > drives to reduce current drain, heat and make the system a bit quieter. > > I also wanted to try out a SATA drive since I have never had one in the > past. The price was to tempting to pass up. I built (radio-shack) a > switch box which allows me to power up or down the secondary identical drive > to make it easy for me to do the copy and have almost zero run time on the > backup. Works great. > > Now I have four SCSI drives I no longer need and wish to sell. If anyone > is interested then give me a shout. > > Cheers, > Bob > ---- > > On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Matt Warnock < > mwarnock@ridgecrestherbals.com> wrote: > >> I generally agree with you, but I was obviously simplifying (or >> over-simplifying). My point was that complaining about the current non-DWIM >> (Do What I Mean) state of affairs doesn't really help much, a point which >> you also made earlier. >> >> There is always only one "boot" device presented or booted, in the sense >> that the BIOS may look in more than one place (in a configurable order) for >> a boot sector, but it always only boots one. It is up to that boot device >> to contain the code and configuration (boot, 1.5, kernel, ramdisk and root, >> and additional disk/resources) needed to create a running system. >> >> My point was, the boot process can be very flexible (and complex) to meet >> different needs. If your own needs are different, with Linux you need to >> figure out what you need, and do that. Some of it is cultural-- many people >> who use Linux would rather have it complain and halt when it finds a boot >> problem than have it automagically "do the right thing" which different >> people may obviously disagree on. Especially when the boot environment can >> change as easily as inserting a thumbdrive, which was my other point. >> >> But Robert is right that cloning a software image on mostly identical >> hardware, plugging the clone in place of the original, and not having it >> boot just like the first one is a bit counter-intuitive. He did just the >> right thing by asking, and I tried to explain, though I DON'T know why most >> distribs use UUID rather than LABEL or /dev/sdX anymore. I tend to be >> old-school, and I like the old ways better myself. I assume it may have >> something to do with volume managers or something. Or maybe they don't want >> a mirrored (RAID 0?) drive booting automagically (as a second choice, >> because the boot sector was missing/corrupted on the real "boot" drive) >> without an appropriate complaint. Maybe someone else knows? >> >> Sure, it might be nice if an installed system would re-scan everything and >> try harder to boot correctly if something dramatic has changed (which I >> assumed was Robert's complaint, though I think he underestimated the >> complexity he introduced by cloning the drive), and maybe it will someday, >> but nobody does it yet (esp. not OSX or Windoze). In my experience live-CD >> distributions (possibly installed to thumbdrives or USB hard drives for >> speed) probably come the closest to "universal boot", assuming the BIOS >> supports USB boot at all, which is why I mentioned them. And yes, they do >> boot a little slower than the native installs, which know exactly which >> drivers to load for the configured system. I don't know whether any other >> OS would support cloning a drive as he has done here. I know Windows checks >> device IDs and would require re-registration if the hardware changes enough, >> though I don't know whether the changed device ID in a cloned drive would >> trigger ! it. >> >> I guess the real answer is that modern devices have device IDs, and you >> can't assume that a cloned drive is exactly the same anymore, because modern >> systems actually use the device IDs, and not just for copy protection >> anymore. >> >> Stuart Jansen wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 2009-02-21 at 10:46 -0700, Matt Warnock wrote: >>> >>>> If the configuration file doesn't match the hardware, those 512 bytes >>>> don't (and can't) have enough intelligence to be able to find all the >>>> possible hardware options. If they did, it would involve re-detecting every >>>> possible piece of hardware on the system, slowing the boot process >>>> dramatically. >>>> >>> >>> I should have also pointed out that waiting for hardware to settle into >>> a stable state after powering on is slow, especially when performed by >>> ancient 16 bit BIOS code instead of something more modern like Coreboot. >>> But most boot loaders use the device information already collected by >>> the BIOS. so I don't see why you're claiming a need to re-scan. Because >>> modern boot loaders have the ability to load code from an actual >>> filesystem, they are not as limited as you suggest. >>> >>> Scanning all available devices and partition isn't free, but it wouldn't >>> take nearly so long as you imply. For example, have you ever used the >>> GRUB command "find"? In my experience it is able to locate >>> the /etc/passwd file fast enough to appear instantaneous. >>> >>> That is one reason (along with CD read speeds) why Knoppix and other >>>> live CDs boot a lot more slowly than typical HD-installed distributions, >>>> which actually use LILO/GRUB to load the kernel and a root ramdisk for boot >>>> speed. >>>> >>> >>> Actually, the biggest reason that Live CD solutions are slow is that >>> optical drives are slow. >>> >>> The problems you cite aren't insurmountable. Besides, you setup and >>> argued against the exact opposite situation Robert Lewis cared about. He >>> didn't try to boot the system with both the original and cloned disk, "a >>> CDROM, a DVD, and a USB thumb drive, [for a total of] 5 boot devices". >>> He said: "However, I really think if only one boot device is presented >>> to the bios that it should boot without having to edit stuff." And he is >>> right, there's still plenty of room to improve the robustness and >>> flexibility of the Linux boot process. >>> >>> The current status quo is not set in stone, it is not forced on us by >>> insurmountable technical challenges. Instead it is largely a result of >>> holding onto legacy technologies because too few people have bothered to >>> ask "why aren't we doing something smarter?" >>> >>> >> -- >> Matt Warnock, President >> RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, >> information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> > > !DSPAM:49a07f0a301311215114932! > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > !DSPAM:49a07f0a301311215114932! > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090221/d37f5dfc/attachment.htm From bms at mscis.org Sat Feb 21 18:26:54 2009 From: bms at mscis.org (Brandon Stout) Date: Sat Feb 21 17:53:52 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.2 In-Reply-To: <49A091A0.1020604@sbcglobal.net> References: <49A091A0.1020604@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <49A0A9DE.7020501@mscis.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Click your kmenu button, and go to 'Configure Desktop' or 'Personal Settings'. Under Look and Feel, click Desktop. Click the Screen Saver button. You'll see the settings you want there. Brandon Stout Stout Hosting LLC Robert Lewis wrote: > Anyone know where the adjustment for the user locked screen > timeout values might be? Is there a GUI interface ? > > When I have inactivity for some unknown period of time or > we bring up a second login screen on F8 then after some period > of time my screen gets locked and I have to type my password > to re-enter. This is a good feature for business or potential > unsecure areas. However, this machine is in my office at my > home and would like know how to set the interval myself and/or > turn it off. > > So far I haven't found within either YaST or right clicking and > looking through the Appearance Settings screens. Also, I have > nosed around in the Configure Desktop setting from the SUSE 11.1 > kickoff. > > Cheers, > Bob -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmgqd4ACgkQx0pgn74qrcJNdQCfSbSoq9t9CYpJ2+IN4W7EmmZ0 ie8AoIQY7m8FfuLbrHZZzonKc31jqrue =xN+N -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From marc at mecworks.com Sun Feb 22 07:57:33 2009 From: marc at mecworks.com (Marc Christensen) Date: Sun Feb 22 07:23:11 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <200902202201.03614.roger@itigger.com> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> <499F62E6.5020502@mecworks.com> <200902202201.03614.roger@itigger.com> Message-ID: <49A167DD.4040905@mecworks.com> Roger Smith wrote: > On Friday 20 February 2009 8:11:50 pm Marc Christensen wrote: >> You can also mount filesystems by label which is also transparent across >> images. > > I have never liked relying on labels as mount targets. But, after hearing that > stupid distros are using the drive ID as a device reference, labels seem > pretty damn awesome. It must be a silly distribution like Mandrake or SUSE. > Not necessarily silly. As Stewart pointed out in one of his responses, most distros do this nowadays. The reasoning for this was to solve a much more common problem. Simple device labels such as /dev/sda1, change when plugging in removable devices like thumb drives other removable media such as USB/eSATA/Firewire drives. If mounting by simple device name, some partition layouts won't be as static as they should be. By moving to a permanent way of addressing these devices, hot-plugging other devices does not affect partition layouts set up in /etc/fstab. While duplication of drives is still a problem in this situation, it does not happen that often and can be addressed by using labels or by mounting up the new drive and editing the /etc/fstab manually after the duplication. -- Marc Christensen http://blog.mecworks.com From bob.l.lewis at gmail.com Sun Feb 22 14:25:54 2009 From: bob.l.lewis at gmail.com (Robert Lewis) Date: Sun Feb 22 13:51:46 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.2 In-Reply-To: <49A0A9DE.7020501@mscis.org> References: <49A091A0.1020604@sbcglobal.net> <49A0A9DE.7020501@mscis.org> Message-ID: <86d2b63e0902221325ucf55b47we651d9f3d5cfa4e5@mail.gmail.com> For some reason that isn't doing the trick for me. I did unclick the screen saver but it still is forcing me to enter my password after some time period. Bob On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Brandon Stout wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Click your kmenu button, and go to 'Configure Desktop' or 'Personal > Settings'. Under Look and Feel, click Desktop. Click the Screen Saver > button. You'll see the settings you want there. > > Brandon Stout > Stout Hosting LLC > > Robert Lewis wrote: > > > Anyone know where the adjustment for the user locked screen > > timeout values might be? Is there a GUI interface ? > > > > When I have inactivity for some unknown period of time or > > we bring up a second login screen on F8 then after some period > > of time my screen gets locked and I have to type my password > > to re-enter. This is a good feature for business or potential > > unsecure areas. However, this machine is in my office at my > > home and would like know how to set the interval myself and/or > > turn it off. > > > > So far I haven't found within either YaST or right clicking and > > looking through the Appearance Settings screens. Also, I have > > nosed around in the Configure Desktop setting from the SUSE 11.1 > > kickoff. > > > > Cheers, > > Bob > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAkmgqd4ACgkQx0pgn74qrcJNdQCfSbSoq9t9CYpJ2+IN4W7EmmZ0 > ie8AoIQY7m8FfuLbrHZZzonKc31jqrue > =xN+N > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090222/007d2689/attachment.htm From bms at mscis.org Sun Feb 22 15:26:38 2009 From: bms at mscis.org (Brandon Stout) Date: Sun Feb 22 14:53:43 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.2 In-Reply-To: <86d2b63e0902221325ucf55b47we651d9f3d5cfa4e5@mail.gmail.com> References: <49A091A0.1020604@sbcglobal.net> <49A0A9DE.7020501@mscis.org> <86d2b63e0902221325ucf55b47we651d9f3d5cfa4e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49A1D11E.3040205@mscis.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Robert Lewis wrote: > For some reason that isn't doing the trick for me. I did unclick > the screen saver but it still is forcing me to enter my password > after some time period. > > Bob Did you uncheck 'Require password to stop"? Brandon Stout Stout Hosting LLC -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmh0R4ACgkQx0pgn74qrcLz1ACfe0lM4y7wvLB72mVpgqRUzWjy r50AnRdqqjkM+pvNSpgMXnUjlnJweCoY =zNSd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From bob.l.lewis at gmail.com Sun Feb 22 16:20:35 2009 From: bob.l.lewis at gmail.com (Robert Lewis) Date: Sun Feb 22 15:46:25 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Fwd: kd3 4.2 In-Reply-To: <49A1DA5B.6010009@mscis.org> References: <49A1D802.2090002@sbcglobal.net> <49A1DA5B.6010009@mscis.org> Message-ID: <86d2b63e0902221520x37068ad9m370419711d7e6243@mail.gmail.com> Robert, No problem. That's the right screen, and the right options unchecked. You might want to say that to the list now, and see if anyone else has other ideas. I looked at the power management settings and didn't see any option there to make it ask for a password either, so I'm not sure where to look next. Maybe someone else will. Brandon Robert Lewis wrote: > Hi Brandon, > > The attachment caused me to be thrown into the delay for the moderator so > I am taking the liberty (hope that is ok) of emaling you directly off > the group list. > >> Did you uncheck 'Require password to stop"? > > I didn't find that. Please allow me to include a screen > shot of the the screen I am on but likely not the correct one. > Bare in mind this is KDE 4.2. > > Please see the attachment. > > Cheers, > Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090222/be58c9f5/attachment.html From kmahan at xmission.com Mon Feb 23 09:50:46 2009 From: kmahan at xmission.com (Kurt Mahan) Date: Mon Feb 23 09:16:30 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: X Screens & KDE4.2 Message-ID: <49A2D3E6.9070608@xmission.com> I'm trying to get KDE 4.2 to work with multiple X screens. I'll add the usual refrain of "this worked great under KDE 3.5". With Xinerama disabled KDE starts up on the Screen0. Screen1 has the usual grey and the cursor heads over but KDE doesn't use it. With Xinerama enabled KDE crashes (I don't have the error messages in front of me). Is there a way to configure KDE 4.2 to use both X screens? --Kurt From thatch45 at gmail.com Mon Feb 23 10:38:27 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Mon Feb 23 10:04:12 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: X Screens & KDE4.2 In-Reply-To: <49A2D3E6.9070608@xmission.com> References: <49A2D3E6.9070608@xmission.com> Message-ID: <6172c17e0902230938k27420d19i50e761be2283a255@mail.gmail.com> What kind of video card do you have? I have gotten it to work very well with Nvidia Twinview and ATI BigDesktop On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 9:50 AM, Kurt Mahan wrote: > I'm trying to get KDE 4.2 to work with multiple X screens. I'll add the > usual refrain of "this worked great under KDE 3.5". > > With Xinerama disabled KDE starts up on the Screen0. Screen1 has the > usual grey and the cursor heads over but KDE doesn't use it. > > With Xinerama enabled KDE crashes (I don't have the error messages in > front of me). > > Is there a way to configure KDE 4.2 to use both X screens? > > --Kurt > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090223/9ff532dc/attachment.htm From beebe at math.utah.edu Mon Feb 23 10:44:13 2009 From: beebe at math.utah.edu (Nelson H. F. Beebe) Date: Mon Feb 23 10:10:58 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug] news: tool renamed: lzma -> xz Message-ID: This mornings news announced a new release of GNU coreutils (7.1), and with it, mention of the renaming of the lzma tool to xz, and its becoming part of the GNU Project. File suffixes .lzma now become .xz. I now have the latest xz release from http://tukaani.org/xz/xz-4.999.8beta.tar.gz built and installed on most flavors of GNU/Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, Solaris 10 (SPARC, IA-32, AMD64), and Mac OS X (PowerPC and IA-32/EM64T/AMD64), although sometimes, I had to first build and install in a bare environment before I could get builds in compiler-specific environment to pass their tests. The xz code is written in C99, and will not be retrofitted for older C versions. The installed executables are lzcat lzfgrep lzmadec xz lzcmp lzgrep lzmore xzcat lzdiff lzless unlzma xzdec lzegrep lzma unxz ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - University of Utah FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@acm.org beebe@computer.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kwalker at kobran.org Sat Feb 21 14:33:32 2009 From: kwalker at kobran.org (Knight Walker) Date: Mon Feb 23 10:17:44 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <1235243036.32295.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> <499F62E6.5020502@mecworks.com> <200902202201.03614.roger@itigger.com> <86d2b63e0902210843x5a39a7d4u39a6351b35ab48f3@mail.gmail.com> <49A03E13.4010201@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1235243036.32295.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1235252012.3572.16.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> I'm going to chime in here because I'm waiting for a server to finish rebuilding... On Sat, 2009-02-21 at 12:03 -0700, Stuart Jansen wrote: > I should have also pointed out that waiting for hardware to settle into > a stable state after powering on is slow, especially when performed by > ancient 16 bit BIOS code instead of something more modern like Coreboot. > But most boot loaders use the device information already collected by > the BIOS. so I don't see why you're claiming a need to re-scan. Because > modern boot loaders have the ability to load code from an actual > filesystem, they are not as limited as you suggest. I wish I could use Coreboot on my systems, I really do, but I'm a bit too nervous about bricking my system by destroying my BIOS chip (munged flash) or finding out that some critical part of my system isn't supported by Coreboot. And you are correct in that most boot loaders use the BIOS because it is convenient and mature technology, and boot loaders generally need to be very small and can't do a whole lot of fancy device detection. As for why most drivers re-scan the devices, from what I've been told, it's because the drivers can't clearly trust what the BIOS tells them, or some BIOSes don't bring up some hardware with sane defaults, or systems come up from a non-BIOS-approved state (e.g. when a laptop comes up from S3 or S4). Finally, at least from what I've seen from Linux, the drivers prefer to probe the hardware for settings rather than loading something from the disk (That may have changed from the last boot if the disk changed) > Scanning all available devices and partition isn't free, but it wouldn't > take nearly so long as you imply. For example, have you ever used the > GRUB command "find"? In my experience it is able to locate > the /etc/passwd file fast enough to appear instantaneous. That depends on the hardware you have. I don't know about your system, but some of the systems I run have old hardware that takes a while to initialize, or the device has to time out before it can continue. I'm thinking of SCSI devices and the like. > Actually, the biggest reason that Live CD solutions are slow is that > optical drives are slow. Painfully slow, especially since most of them spin down the media after a short time and make you wait for it to spin up again. > The problems you cite aren't insurmountable. Besides, you setup and > argued against the exact opposite situation Robert Lewis cared about. He > didn't try to boot the system with both the original and cloned disk, "a > CDROM, a DVD, and a USB thumb drive, [for a total of] 5 boot devices". > He said: "However, I really think if only one boot device is presented > to the bios that it should boot without having to edit stuff." And he is > right, there's still plenty of room to improve the robustness and > flexibility of the Linux boot process. You're correct, however modern bootloaders have to be able to cope with simple as well as more complex boot setups, including the one he outlined. However, I can tell you from experience that trying to boot a system with a cloned disk in the machine can be quite obnoxious and a real pain to troubleshoot. > The current status quo is not set in stone, it is not forced on us by > insurmountable technical challenges. Instead it is largely a result of > holding onto legacy technologies because too few people have bothered to > ask "why aren't we doing something smarter?" And when those smart people try to be smarter, they run into a lot of problems because some people are holding onto their legacy technologies and they tend to complain vociferously if their systems lose support. So the end result is exactly what we have. -KW From kwalker at kobran.org Sat Feb 21 15:00:58 2009 From: kwalker at kobran.org (Knight Walker) Date: Mon Feb 23 10:25:36 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Harddrive duplication In-Reply-To: <49A06066.80005@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <499F0492.7040405@sbcglobal.net> <86d2b63e0902201235n5421b5e8tf50764859fae5ac2@mail.gmail.com> <499F62E6.5020502@mecworks.com> <200902202201.03614.roger@itigger.com> <86d2b63e0902210843x5a39a7d4u39a6351b35ab48f3@mail.gmail.com> <49A03E13.4010201@ridgecrestherbals.com> <1235243036.32295.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <49A06066.80005@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <1235253658.3572.41.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> On Sat, 2009-02-21 at 13:13 -0700, Matt Warnock wrote: [SNIP] > But Robert is right that cloning a software image on mostly identical > hardware, plugging the clone in place of the original, and not having it > boot just like the first one is a bit counter-intuitive. He did just > the right thing by asking, and I tried to explain, though I DON'T know > why most distribs use UUID rather than LABEL or /dev/sdX anymore. I > tend to be old-school, and I like the old ways better myself. I assume > it may have something to do with volume managers or something. Or maybe > they don't want a mirrored (RAID 0?) drive booting automagically (as a > second choice, because the boot sector was missing/corrupted on the real > "boot" drive) without an appropriate complaint. Maybe someone else knows? I believe most distros have gone to UUID because it has been determined by some very smart people to be the safest and least likely to be screwed up later (vs. /dev/sd? or LABEL). I tend to be old-school as well, and I still use /dev and LABEL= entries mainly), but I see their point. The UUID is determined by the system using cryptographic functions that make it nearly impossible to assign two devices the same UUID, whereas it's really easy to label two partitions /boot (If you're upgrading your hard disk for instance and you have to reboot the system before you're finished or you simply forget to yank the old drive before you try to boot from the new one) or for /dev/sd? to move simply by adding/removing a disk controller. Volume Managers like LVM2 and RAID systems like Linux's software RAID already use UUIDs, and I believe other RAID implementations (Hardware and software) do as well. > Sure, it might be nice if an installed system would re-scan everything > and try harder to boot correctly if something dramatic has changed > (which I assumed was Robert's complaint, though I think he > underestimated the complexity he introduced by cloning the drive), and > maybe it will someday, but nobody does it yet (esp. not OSX or Windoze). Yes, it would be nice, but without a LOT of code to cover all sorts of weird corner-cases, it's not really feasible. Plus it makes the boot procedures take a lot longer, since most are written in some form of script. And because of the need to maintain legacy support, most are very limited in what they can cram into their code. The sad thing is that there have been several attempts to break away from that legacy, but thus far they all have failed to achieve any real momentum. > In my experience live-CD distributions (possibly installed to > thumbdrives or USB hard drives for speed) probably come the closest to > "universal boot", assuming the BIOS supports USB boot at all, which is > why I mentioned them. And yes, they do boot a little slower than the > native installs, which know exactly which drivers to load for the > configured system. I don't know whether any other OS would support > cloning a drive as he has done here. I know Windows checks device IDs > and would require re-registration if the hardware changes enough, though > I don't know whether the changed device ID in a cloned drive would > trigger it. I agree, and it is nice that we have those systems available to us, provided that the system we're booting them on has a USB boot option and the USB drive itself supports booting (Believe it or not, but a lot still don't). They also boot slower because USB is slower than internal drive connections and (at least from my experience) doesn't seem to have any DMA capabilities. > I guess the real answer is that modern devices have device IDs, and you > can't assume that a cloned drive is exactly the same anymore, because > modern systems actually use the device IDs, and not just for copy > protection anymore. And I think that was a lot of his original problem, because even the same batch of disks purchased at the same time can have different device IDs, since that is a feature of their firmware, while UUIDs can be cloned by a simple 'dd'. [SNIP] Oh, and in case anyone cares, you can check the UUID by using "tune2fs -l /dev/sd?" -KW From kmahan at xmission.com Mon Feb 23 11:27:38 2009 From: kmahan at xmission.com (Kurt Mahan) Date: Mon Feb 23 10:53:21 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: X Screens & KDE4.2 In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0902230938k27420d19i50e761be2283a255@mail.gmail.com> References: <49A2D3E6.9070608@xmission.com> <6172c17e0902230938k27420d19i50e761be2283a255@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49A2EA9A.3090600@xmission.com> The goal here is to get 2 separate video cards working together. So X configures them as two separate X screens (in xorg.conf). --Kurt Thomas S Hatch wrote: > What kind of video card do you have? I have gotten it to work very > well with Nvidia Twinview and ATI BigDesktop > > On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 9:50 AM, Kurt Mahan > wrote: > > I'm trying to get KDE 4.2 to work with multiple X screens. I'll > add the > usual refrain of "this worked great under KDE 3.5". > > With Xinerama disabled KDE starts up on the Screen0. Screen1 has the > usual grey and the cursor heads over but KDE doesn't use it. > > With Xinerama enabled KDE crashes (I don't have the error messages in > front of me). > > Is there a way to configure KDE 4.2 to use both X screens? > > --Kurt > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net > channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From thatch45 at gmail.com Mon Feb 23 12:03:03 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Mon Feb 23 11:28:47 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: X Screens & KDE4.2 In-Reply-To: <49A2EA9A.3090600@xmission.com> References: <49A2D3E6.9070608@xmission.com> <6172c17e0902230938k27420d19i50e761be2283a255@mail.gmail.com> <49A2EA9A.3090600@xmission.com> Message-ID: <6172c17e0902231103y5ab5b223qca0dfba6a655237c@mail.gmail.com> Sorry, I haven't worked with that before On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Kurt Mahan wrote: > The goal here is to get 2 separate video cards working together. So X > configures them as two separate X screens (in xorg.conf). > > --Kurt > > Thomas S Hatch wrote: > > What kind of video card do you have? I have gotten it to work very > > well with Nvidia Twinview and ATI BigDesktop > > > > On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 9:50 AM, Kurt Mahan > > wrote: > > > > I'm trying to get KDE 4.2 to work with multiple X screens. I'll > > add the > > usual refrain of "this worked great under KDE 3.5". > > > > With Xinerama disabled KDE starts up on the Screen0. Screen1 has the > > usual grey and the cursor heads over but KDE doesn't use it. > > > > With Xinerama enabled KDE crashes (I don't have the error messages in > > front of me). > > > > Is there a way to configure KDE 4.2 to use both X screens? > > > > --Kurt > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net > > channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > > sllug-members@sllug.org > > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090223/35ad8d52/attachment.html From sjansen at buscaluz.org Mon Feb 23 12:11:33 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Mon Feb 23 11:37:19 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug] news: tool renamed: lzma -> xz In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1235416293.3654.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-02-23 at 10:44 -0700, Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote: > This mornings news announced a new release of GNU coreutils (7.1), and > with it, mention of the renaming of the lzma tool to xz, and its > becoming part of the GNU Project. File suffixes .lzma now become .xz. I think you've misunderstood. The way I read it, coreutils is no longer releasing tarballs compressed with lzma but are instead using xz. They continue to also release gzip compressed tarballs. The use of xz to compress coreutils releases does not indicate the adoption of xz as a GNU project. I confirmed this by asking a co-worker who is a GNU insider and self-described "FSF nerd". He can't find any indication that xz has become a GNU project. >From the coreutils announcement: Distribution note: new suffix, ".xz" replaces ".lzma". Note the better-compressed tar ball name below has the ".xz" suffix. XZ Utils (new name for the improved format/tools) is the successor to lzma. For more info, see http://tukaani.org/xz/ http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/coreutils-announce/2009-02/msg00000.html -- "XML is like violence: if it doesn't solve your problem, you aren't using enough of it." - Chris Maden From thatch45 at gmail.com Mon Feb 23 12:25:27 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Mon Feb 23 11:51:10 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug] news: tool renamed: lzma -> xz In-Reply-To: <1235416293.3654.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1235416293.3654.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <6172c17e0902231125q36054c74oa8c8263b82c64d01@mail.gmail.com> So then, if I want to use LZMA, I should install the xz software? I am looking at backporting lzma to RHEL 5 for our backup and archiving systems to replace bzip2. Anyone have any comments on this? I was planning on using the latest lzma software since xz is at beta-8, but should I use xz? Oh, and tell that FSF nerd that he is the man! -Tom Hatch On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Stuart Jansen wrote: > On Mon, 2009-02-23 at 10:44 -0700, Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote: > > This mornings news announced a new release of GNU coreutils (7.1), and > > with it, mention of the renaming of the lzma tool to xz, and its > > becoming part of the GNU Project. File suffixes .lzma now become .xz. > > I think you've misunderstood. The way I read it, coreutils is no longer > releasing tarballs compressed with lzma but are instead using xz. They > continue to also release gzip compressed tarballs. > > The use of xz to compress coreutils releases does not indicate the > adoption of xz as a GNU project. I confirmed this by asking a co-worker > who is a GNU insider and self-described "FSF nerd". He can't find any > indication that xz has become a GNU project. > > >From the coreutils announcement: > > Distribution note: new suffix, ".xz" replaces ".lzma". > Note the better-compressed tar ball name below has the ".xz" suffix. > XZ Utils (new name for the improved format/tools) is the successor to > lzma. > For more info, see http://tukaani.org/xz/ > > http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/coreutils-announce/2009-02/msg00000.html > > -- > "XML is like violence: if it doesn't solve your problem, you aren't > using enough of it." - Chris Maden > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090223/4b9d7f6f/attachment-0001.htm From thatch45 at gmail.com Mon Feb 23 13:09:23 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Mon Feb 23 12:35:06 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: LZMA and XZ Message-ID: <6172c17e0902231209m8cd0701ie4773033f141e1f7@mail.gmail.com> I realized that in my haste I top posted, sorry about that. I hang my head in shame. If I want to use LZMA, I should install the xz software? I am looking at backporting lzma to RHEL 5 for our backup and archiving systems to replace bzip2. Anyone have any comments on this? I was planning on using the latest lzma software since xz is at beta-8, but should I use xz instead? And has anyone backported lzma/xz to RHEL and have any experience with this? -Tom -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090223/da507474/attachment.html From sjansen at buscaluz.org Mon Feb 23 13:15:04 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Mon Feb 23 12:40:43 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: LZMA and XZ In-Reply-To: <6172c17e0902231209m8cd0701ie4773033f141e1f7@mail.gmail.com> References: <6172c17e0902231209m8cd0701ie4773033f141e1f7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1235420104.3654.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-02-23 at 13:09 -0700, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > I realized that in my haste I top posted, sorry about that. I hang my > head in shame. > > If I want to use LZMA, I should install the xz software? I am looking > at backporting lzma to RHEL 5 for our backup and archiving systems to > replace bzip2. > Anyone have any comments on this? I was planning on using the latest > lzma software since xz is at beta-8, but should I use xz instead? And > has anyone backported lzma/xz to RHEL and have any experience with > this? I could see using lzma or xz for long term archival, but for backups I still prefer gzip. Of the available options, gzip is still fastest for backups and restores. Speed often matters more than compression ratio, especially during restores. In addition, gzip is more widely available. I tend to be paranoid about my data. I don't think lzma is well established enough for me to move, which means I'm really not ready to trust xz with critical data. -- "XML is like violence: if it doesn't solve your problem, you aren't using enough of it." - Chris Maden From thatch45 at gmail.com Mon Feb 23 13:22:14 2009 From: thatch45 at gmail.com (Thomas S Hatch) Date: Mon Feb 23 12:47:59 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: LZMA and XZ In-Reply-To: <1235420104.3654.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <6172c17e0902231209m8cd0701ie4773033f141e1f7@mail.gmail.com> <1235420104.3654.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <6172c17e0902231222u13a17a5h31786c5e040f0f9d@mail.gmail.com> That makes sense, we are using bzip for incrementals and no compression for daily backups right now, and if we move to lzma we are planning on making it standard software for all servers before making the commitment. So it should speed things up, xz looks like it has options to lower compression ratio and speed up compression time too. I will run a bunch of tests On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Stuart Jansen wrote: > On Mon, 2009-02-23 at 13:09 -0700, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > > I realized that in my haste I top posted, sorry about that. I hang my > > head in shame. > > > > If I want to use LZMA, I should install the xz software? I am looking > > at backporting lzma to RHEL 5 for our backup and archiving systems to > > replace bzip2. > > Anyone have any comments on this? I was planning on using the latest > > lzma software since xz is at beta-8, but should I use xz instead? And > > has anyone backported lzma/xz to RHEL and have any experience with > > this? > > I could see using lzma or xz for long term archival, but for backups I > still prefer gzip. > > Of the available options, gzip is still fastest for backups and > restores. Speed often matters more than compression ratio, especially > during restores. > > In addition, gzip is more widely available. I tend to be paranoid about > my data. I don't think lzma is well established enough for me to move, > which means I'm really not ready to trust xz with critical data. > > -- > "XML is like violence: if it doesn't solve your problem, you aren't > using enough of it." - Chris Maden > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090223/9b32e2c7/attachment.htm From aaron.toponce at gmail.com Mon Feb 23 14:13:18 2009 From: aaron.toponce at gmail.com (Aaron Toponce) Date: Mon Feb 23 13:39:03 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: LZMA and XZ In-Reply-To: <1235420104.3654.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <6172c17e0902231209m8cd0701ie4773033f141e1f7@mail.gmail.com> <1235420104.3654.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090223211318.GK4929@sol.pthree.org> On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 01:15:04PM -0700, Stuart Jansen wrote: > On Mon, 2009-02-23 at 13:09 -0700, Thomas S Hatch wrote: > > I realized that in my haste I top posted, sorry about that. I hang my > > head in shame. You also composed your mail in HTML, you poor unfortunate soul. :) > I could see using lzma or xz for long term archival, but for backups I > still prefer gzip. lzma -1 or --fast produces times comparable to gzip and better compression than bzip2 -9 or --slow. LZMA can also take advantage of multithreads [1], where GZIP and BZIP2 cannot [2]. This makes it attractive for multicore systems. > > Of the available options, gzip is still fastest for backups and > restores. Speed often matters more than compression ratio, especially > during restores. lzma also is comparable to gzip with decompression. [3] > > In addition, gzip is more widely available. I tend to be paranoid about > my data. I don't think lzma is well established enough for me to move, > which means I'm really not ready to trust xz with critical data. LZMA still has some adoption to encounter, but I have not ready anything related to data corruption using the software. In fact, I've heard that LZMA has better data integrity and resilience to corruption than other compression algorithms, but I can't confirm this. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LZMA#7-Zip_reference_implementation [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bzip2#Compression_efficiency [3] http://changelog.complete.org/archives/910-how-to-think-about-compression -- _ Aaron Toponce ( ) ASCII Ribbon Campaign www.aarontoponce.org X www.asciiribbon.org / \ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 489 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090223/76d88a73/attachment.pgp From remo at italy1.com Tue Feb 24 13:33:24 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (Remo Mattei) Date: Tue Feb 24 12:59:20 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Apache log analyzer Message-ID: Hello I wonder if anyone recommends any log analyzer for apache. I have used webalizer and just checking a few new options.. Thanks. Remo From noblejames at gmail.com Tue Feb 24 13:47:45 2009 From: noblejames at gmail.com (James Noble) Date: Tue Feb 24 13:13:24 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Apache log analyzer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Have you checked out AWStats? I looked into setting it up but haven't needed it yet. Good Luck James -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090224/f8d5e5d2/attachment.htm From caleb at macjunk.net Tue Feb 24 13:50:38 2009 From: caleb at macjunk.net (Caleb Call) Date: Tue Feb 24 13:16:15 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Apache log analyzer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <276929710902241250i53db3860s41bbb4b4922d1a91@mail.gmail.com> AWStats with JAWStats. On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 1:47 PM, James Noble wrote: > Have you checked out AWStats? I looked into setting it up but haven't > needed it yet. > Good Luck > James > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090224/d00e5ff4/attachment.html From remo at italy1.com Tue Feb 24 13:54:29 2009 From: remo at italy1.com (Remo Mattei) Date: Tue Feb 24 13:20:07 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Apache log analyzer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That has too many security holes that?s why I stopped using it. Remo From: James Noble Reply-To: Salt Lake Linux Users Group Discussions Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:47:45 -0700 To: Salt Lake Linux Users Group Discussions Subject: Re: [sllug-members]: Apache log analyzer Have you checked out AWStats?? I looked into setting it up but haven't needed it yet. Good Luck James !DSPAM:49a45d76321519080218370! ______________________________________________________________________ See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah sllug-members@sllug.org http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members !DSPAM:49a45d76321519080218370! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090224/c3021df8/attachment.htm From kwalker at kobran.org Tue Feb 24 14:38:51 2009 From: kwalker at kobran.org (Knight Walker) Date: Tue Feb 24 14:04:35 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Apache log analyzer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1235511531.3488.6.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> On Tue, 2009-02-24 at 13:54 -0700, Remo Mattei wrote: > That has too many security holes that?s why I stopped using it. They patched those, but I was also one of the people who fell victim to AWstat's security holes, so I have setup my Apache configuration to allow access to AWstats only from my own trusted subnets. Like so: Options None AllowOverride None Order allow,deny Allow from 127.0.0.1 .kobran.org 10.123.123. # Additional Perl modules SetEnv PERL5LIB /usr/share/awstats/lib:/usr/share/awstats/plugins That, plus SELinux have protected me since then. -KW From ricardo.slacker at gmail.com Tue Feb 24 14:52:24 2009 From: ricardo.slacker at gmail.com (Ricardo) Date: Tue Feb 24 14:18:09 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Apache log analyzer In-Reply-To: <1235511531.3488.6.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> References: <1235511531.3488.6.camel@nc6320.kobran.org> Message-ID: <614c1080902241352t71d5abd2n7987d87d3b644caf@mail.gmail.com> Seriously, I use awk/perl for a lot of log analysis (bot visibility, etc). Turns out perl does an extremely good job at parsing streams of text, who would have thought? ; ) Make sure to take advantage of the /regex/o flag and don't slurp. --Shane Hansen On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 2:38 PM, Knight Walker wrote: > On Tue, 2009-02-24 at 13:54 -0700, Remo Mattei wrote: > > That has too many security holes that?s why I stopped using it. > > They patched those, but I was also one of the people who fell victim to > AWstat's security holes, so I have setup my Apache configuration to > allow access to AWstats only from my own trusted subnets. > > Like so: > > > Options None > AllowOverride None > Order allow,deny > Allow from 127.0.0.1 .kobran.org 10.123.123. > > # Additional Perl modules > > SetEnv PERL5LIB /usr/share/awstats/lib:/usr/share/awstats/plugins > > > That, plus SELinux have protected me since then. > > -KW > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090224/801218ab/attachment.html From joseph at thatworks.com Tue Feb 24 14:04:23 2009 From: joseph at thatworks.com (Joseph Hall) Date: Tue Feb 24 16:45:00 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Apache log analyzer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <429579db0902241304q70882farce28b741351730c@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Remo Mattei wrote: > That has too many security holes that?s why I stopped using it. I would recommend AWStats in a heartbeat. It has had security holes in the past (I don't know of any at the moment), but on the other hand, why would you be running it without a password anyway? -- Joseph http://blog.josephhall.com/ From herlo1 at gmail.com Tue Feb 24 23:14:22 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Tue Feb 24 22:40:01 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: SLLUG Daytime SIG March meeting - Call for Presenters Message-ID: This is a call for presenters for the March 11 meeting at the Salt Lake Library. The first meeting was great, but I'd like to see more participating coming along. If you have a Linux related topic you'd like to share, send me an email right away. The topic doesn't have to be too technical and doesn't even have to be very long. If you learned something recently, come and share it with the group, it's how we all learn. The meeting is Wednesday, March 11 from 11:30am-1pm in Conference Room A downstairs on the lower level. Come Join Us, and present if you can. Cheers, Clint From wattwood at gmail.com Tue Feb 24 23:39:17 2009 From: wattwood at gmail.com (William Attwood) Date: Tue Feb 24 23:04:55 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Apache vs Lighttpd Message-ID: <7f2da9a80902242239n40ba6567x8de856cf22fe2947@mail.gmail.com> Hello-- I'm looking into Lighttpd as a replacement for Apache - running PHP as FCGI but serving a -lot- of static content. Right now, we're taking to it's knees a dual processor quad core server with 8GB of RAM. 3-5 requests a second, increasing daily. Has anyone dealt with large volume websites that can lend a hand in configuring the right software "Package"? We're using MySQL, PHP, and Apache currently, hopefully moving to MySQL, PHP and Lighttpd. -- Warm regards, William Attwood Idea Extraordinaire wattwood@gmail.com Vince Lombardi - "Winning is habit. Unfortunately, so is losing." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090224/6b5cfec0/attachment.htm From benko.kevin at gmail.com Wed Feb 25 01:28:58 2009 From: benko.kevin at gmail.com (Kevin Benko) Date: Wed Feb 25 00:54:52 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Would I "Reset" a USB Port via Command Line Message-ID: <200902250129.02599.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Greetings: I am not entirely certain how to properly phrase what it is that I want to do, which is probably why my web searches yield nought. I sometimes need to physically unplug a particular USB device [[Insert grumbling about Seagate "Free Agent" external USB drive]] and restart the HAL system. I want to be able to, via command-line, somehow "reset" that USB port so that Linux (I would guess that this is exclusively on the kernel-level) registers this as the device attached to the USB port being physically unplugged and plugged back in. Any suggestions? -- Kevin Benko From fozz at xmission.com Wed Feb 25 02:18:59 2009 From: fozz at xmission.com (Doran L. Barton) Date: Wed Feb 25 01:44:37 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Apache vs Lighttpd In-Reply-To: <7f2da9a80902242239n40ba6567x8de856cf22fe2947@mail.gmail.com> References: <7f2da9a80902242239n40ba6567x8de856cf22fe2947@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200902250218.59631.fozz@xmission.com> On Tuesday 24 February 2009 23:39:17 William Attwood wrote: > ? ?I'm looking into Lighttpd as a replacement for Apache - running PHP as > FCGI but serving a -lot- of static content. ?Right now, we're taking to > it's knees a dual processor quad core server with 8GB of RAM. ?3-5 requests > a second, increasing daily. I'm really surprised you're having performance issues with static content with only 3-5 requests per second. I'm guessing the poor performance is related to the PHP application. How much database interaction does your PHP application have to do for each request? I don't really think lighttpd is going to buy you much, if any, performance increase over Apache when it comes to your PHP application. You might see better performance for static content, but for dynamic, I highly doubt it. -- Doran L. Barton Open-source developer, sysadmin, consultant, and all-around geeky dude "Beat him out of recognizable shape!" -- English film subtitle seen in Hong Kong From csum77 at gmail.com Tue Feb 24 20:44:51 2009 From: csum77 at gmail.com (csum77@gmail.com) Date: Wed Feb 25 02:20:53 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: IT consultants? Message-ID: Hi sllug-ers. This post isn't a Linux-specific question...it's more of a broad-based support recommendation question I could use some help with. I have need for an IT consultant (possibly a couple) or consulting firm I can refer clients to. Generally the support matters I'm seeing relate to common office problems (printers aren't printing, setting up domain users, disabling terminated user accounts, troubleshooting computers that won't boot, etc. etc.). Most of the help I need is with Windows Server 2003/Active Directory domains, Windows XP Professional, some windows Vista, with occasional need for Linux administration skills. I need a person (or team) experienced with managing backup systems (tape primarily, but backup-to-disk as well). Most of all I need someone that is very confident in handling these situations, and can have good rapport with my clients. Promptness and attention to detail are very important. Do any of you do this type of consulting work? Have any of you worked with consultants or firms like this that you could refer me to? Can you tell me other places I could post this message to? I seem to recall there being a Windows Admins Anonymous group (or something like that) in the Salt Lake area...does that still exist? Any recommendations you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! -Charlie -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090224/f8246e27/attachment.html From wattwood at gmail.com Wed Feb 25 09:03:29 2009 From: wattwood at gmail.com (William Attwood) Date: Wed Feb 25 08:29:06 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Apache vs Lighttpd In-Reply-To: <200902250218.59631.fozz@xmission.com> References: <7f2da9a80902242239n40ba6567x8de856cf22fe2947@mail.gmail.com> <200902250218.59631.fozz@xmission.com> Message-ID: <7f2da9a80902250803mc78082r52773e09736850b8@mail.gmail.com> We're doing very little when it comes to DB interaction; inserting 3-5 records and updating a single record through a 2-3 page process. (Forms, Credit Cards) Each Apache process is 10-14mb. Thanks, -Will On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 2:18 AM, Doran L. Barton wrote: > On Tuesday 24 February 2009 23:39:17 William Attwood wrote: > > I'm looking into Lighttpd as a replacement for Apache - running PHP as > > FCGI but serving a -lot- of static content. Right now, we're taking to > > it's knees a dual processor quad core server with 8GB of RAM. 3-5 > requests > > a second, increasing daily. > > I'm really surprised you're having performance issues with static content > with > only 3-5 requests per second. I'm guessing the poor performance is related > to > the PHP application. How much database interaction does your PHP > application > have to do for each request? > > I don't really think lighttpd is going to buy you much, if any, performance > increase over Apache when it comes to your PHP application. You might see > better performance for static content, but for dynamic, I highly doubt it. > > -- > Doran L. Barton > Open-source developer, sysadmin, consultant, and all-around geeky dude > "Beat him out of recognizable shape!" > -- English film subtitle seen in Hong Kong > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- Warm regards, William Attwood Idea Extraordinaire wattwood@gmail.com Laurence J. Peter - "If two wrongs don't make a right, try three." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090225/fac6189c/attachment.htm From bms at mscis.org Wed Feb 25 09:12:22 2009 From: bms at mscis.org (Brandon Stout) Date: Wed Feb 25 08:39:18 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: IT consultants? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49A56DE6.4090503@mscis.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 csum77@gmail.com wrote: > Hi sllug-ers. This post isn't a Linux-specific question...it's more of > a broad-based support recommendation question I could use some help with. > > I have need for an IT consultant (possibly a couple) or consulting > firm I can refer clients to. Generally the support matters I'm seeing > relate to common office problems (printers aren't printing, setting up > domain users, disabling terminated user accounts, troubleshooting > computers that won't boot, etc. etc.). Most of the help I need is with > Windows Server 2003/Active Directory domains, Windows XP Professional, > some windows Vista, with occasional need for Linux administration > skills. I need a person (or team) experienced with managing backup > systems (tape primarily, but backup-to-disk as well). Most of all I > need someone that is very confident in handling these situations, and > can have good rapport with my clients. Promptness and attention to > detail are very important. > > Do any of you do this type of consulting work? Have any of you worked > with consultants or firms like this that you could refer me to? Can > you tell me other places I could post this message to? I seem to > recall there being a Windows Admins Anonymous group (or something like > that) in the Salt Lake area...does that still exist? > > Any recommendations you can offer would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks! > > -Charlie I recommend Guru Labs for Linux consulting. For Windows, I recommend having your clients move to Linux, then consulting with Guru Labs. You had to know that was coming. This /is/ a LUG :). I wonder if there are any WUGs... Brandon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmlbeYACgkQx0pgn74qrcL3KwCgmjEyzQCdjFlNWo7IfWAv2w6U tc8An1uwewpFpmysEvmoZ84H9LOXKXge =NiKm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From wattwood at gmail.com Wed Feb 25 09:30:12 2009 From: wattwood at gmail.com (William Attwood) Date: Wed Feb 25 08:55:49 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Apache vs Lighttpd In-Reply-To: <7f2da9a80902250803mc78082r52773e09736850b8@mail.gmail.com> References: <7f2da9a80902242239n40ba6567x8de856cf22fe2947@mail.gmail.com> <200902250218.59631.fozz@xmission.com> <7f2da9a80902250803mc78082r52773e09736850b8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f2da9a80902250830v3cade1dcg8ebafd593af88038@mail.gmail.com> Apparently, streaming 4mb videos per visitor is a resource hog and server killer. --Will On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 9:03 AM, William Attwood wrote: > We're doing very little when it comes to DB interaction; inserting 3-5 > records and updating a single record through a 2-3 page process. (Forms, > Credit Cards) > Each Apache process is 10-14mb. > > Thanks, > -Will > > On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 2:18 AM, Doran L. Barton wrote: > >> On Tuesday 24 February 2009 23:39:17 William Attwood wrote: >> > I'm looking into Lighttpd as a replacement for Apache - running PHP >> as >> > FCGI but serving a -lot- of static content. Right now, we're taking to >> > it's knees a dual processor quad core server with 8GB of RAM. 3-5 >> requests >> > a second, increasing daily. >> >> I'm really surprised you're having performance issues with static content >> with >> only 3-5 requests per second. I'm guessing the poor performance is related >> to >> the PHP application. How much database interaction does your PHP >> application >> have to do for each request? >> >> I don't really think lighttpd is going to buy you much, if any, >> performance >> increase over Apache when it comes to your PHP application. You might see >> better performance for static content, but for dynamic, I highly doubt it. >> >> -- >> Doran L. Barton >> Open-source developer, sysadmin, consultant, and all-around geeky dude >> "Beat him out of recognizable shape!" >> -- English film subtitle seen in Hong Kong >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. >> Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah >> sllug-members@sllug.org >> http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members >> > > > > -- > Warm regards, > William Attwood > Idea Extraordinaire > wattwood@gmail.com > Laurence J. Peter - "If two wrongs don't make a right, try three." > -- Warm regards, William Attwood Idea Extraordinaire wattwood@gmail.com Rodney Dangerfield - "When I was a kid my parents moved a lot, but I always found them." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090225/93cd5929/attachment.html From stevehildebrand757 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 25 09:52:41 2009 From: stevehildebrand757 at yahoo.com (Steve Hildebrand) Date: Wed Feb 25 09:18:23 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Flash Problems References: <200902251555.n1PFtvtd001822@sllug.org> Message-ID: <93288.41021.qm@web90401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I know this is fairly common, but I am losing the sound when I try to watch Flash videos. I have Firefox 3.0.6, Flash 10 with the .so in the right place, and I even added a .1.so like I read somewhere on the web, which seemed to work. Running Ubuntu 8.10. I think I have it on ALSA/OSS, but the last time I tried to play around with those settings, something kept the pipe open, and I couldn't set it back to defaults. The odd part is that it will play sound, but after a while, new videos won't play sound. Works fine after a restart, but the length of time it will work is random. At some point, any new video just refuses to play the sound. This is after an upgrade from Flash 9, because the internets guaranteed me the problem with Flash 9 was fixed in 10. The internets lied to me. Any ideas? ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090225/8d575857/attachment.htm From beebe at math.utah.edu Wed Feb 25 10:01:11 2009 From: beebe at math.utah.edu (Nelson H. F. Beebe) Date: Wed Feb 25 09:26:53 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-members] Internet Storm Center daily audio podcasts Message-ID: The Internet Storm Center is now offering daily audio podcasts of computer security issues of the last day. I listened to the current one earlier today, and found it useful. You can find them here: http://isc.sans.org/podcast.html They take 5 to 10 minutes to play, and previous podcasts are available as well. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 - - University of Utah FAX: +1 801 581 4148 - - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: beebe@math.utah.edu - - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@acm.org beebe@computer.org - - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From fozz at xmission.com Wed Feb 25 10:14:51 2009 From: fozz at xmission.com (Doran L. Barton) Date: Wed Feb 25 09:40:39 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Apache vs Lighttpd In-Reply-To: <7f2da9a80902250830v3cade1dcg8ebafd593af88038@mail.gmail.com> References: <7f2da9a80902242239n40ba6567x8de856cf22fe2947@mail.gmail.com> <7f2da9a80902250803mc78082r52773e09736850b8@mail.gmail.com> <7f2da9a80902250830v3cade1dcg8ebafd593af88038@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200902251014.51896.fozz@xmission.com> On Wednesday 25 February 2009 09:30:12 William Attwood wrote: > Apparently, streaming 4mb videos per visitor is a resource hog and server > killer. You didn't mention the streaming. I'd stream the videos separately with lighttpd and keep your static content and PHP served by Apache. -- Doran L. Barton Open-source developer, sysadmin, consultant, and all-around geeky dude "War dims hope for peace" -- Headline seen in newspaper From fozz at xmission.com Wed Feb 25 10:18:30 2009 From: fozz at xmission.com (Doran L. Barton) Date: Wed Feb 25 09:44:15 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: IT consultants? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200902251018.30151.fozz@xmission.com> On Tuesday 24 February 2009 20:44:51 csum77@gmail.com wrote: > Do any of you do this type of consulting work? I don't do much Windows work, almost exclusively Linux. I can provide references. > Can you tell me other places I could post this message to? The PLUG website has some sections for consultants and businesses. The PLUG mailing list is another place you may want to consider. -- Doran L. Barton Open-source developer, sysadmin, consultant, and all-around geeky dude "Free: farm kittens, ready to eat" -- Seen in a newspaper From duck at xmission.com Wed Feb 25 10:39:34 2009 From: duck at xmission.com (Duck) Date: Wed Feb 25 10:05:15 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: How Would I "Reset" a USB Port via Command Line In-Reply-To: <200902250129.02599.benko.kevin@gmail.com> References: <200902250129.02599.benko.kevin@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49A58256.1060105@xmission.com> Kevin Benko wrote: > I want to be able to, via command-line, somehow "reset" that USB port so > that Linux (I would guess that this is exclusively on the kernel-level) > registers this as the device attached to the USB port being physically > unplugged and plugged back in. > > Any suggestions? Here's a program that will do a port reset. As the post says, that's not the same as a power reset, but it may do what you want. As usual, YMMV. http://marc.info/?l=linux-usb&m=121459435621262&w=2 Cheers, --Duck From gthornock at yahoo.com Wed Feb 25 11:55:54 2009 From: gthornock at yahoo.com (Gary Thornock) Date: Wed Feb 25 11:21:36 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Apache vs Lighttpd In-Reply-To: <7f2da9a80902250830v3cade1dcg8ebafd593af88038@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <233209.41892.qm@web30008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- On Wed, 2/25/09, William Attwood wrote: > > Apparently, streaming 4mb videos per visitor is a resource hog > and server killer. > --Will Not to mention a strain on your bandwidth. Why are you serving the videos from your server and not from a CDN? Akamai or Limelight may be out of your price range, but something like CacheFly or Amazon's CloudFront might alleviate a lot of problems for you :) From wattwood at gmail.com Wed Feb 25 13:25:11 2009 From: wattwood at gmail.com (William Attwood) Date: Wed Feb 25 12:50:47 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Apache vs Lighttpd In-Reply-To: <233209.41892.qm@web30008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <7f2da9a80902250830v3cade1dcg8ebafd593af88038@mail.gmail.com> <233209.41892.qm@web30008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7f2da9a80902251225s2d371f50i345aa924d268343b@mail.gmail.com> Gary, thanks for those suggestions. I'll look into them for hosting our video content. On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:55 AM, Gary Thornock wrote: > > --- On Wed, 2/25/09, William Attwood wrote: > > > > Apparently, streaming 4mb videos per visitor is a resource hog > > and server killer. > > --Will > > Not to mention a strain on your bandwidth. Why are you serving > the videos from your server and not from a CDN? > > Akamai or Limelight may be out of your price range, but something > like CacheFly or Amazon's CloudFront might alleviate a lot of > problems for you :) > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -- Warm regards, William Attwood Idea Extraordinaire wattwood@gmail.com Rodney Dangerfield - "When I was a kid my parents moved a lot, but I always found them." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090225/d028911c/attachment.html From tvanry at gmail.com Wed Feb 25 14:27:22 2009 From: tvanry at gmail.com (Thad Van Ry) Date: Wed Feb 25 13:52:59 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: IT consultants? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <38fc83270902251327j216f0854we312856fef82bc7e@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 8:44 PM, csum77@gmail.com wrote: > Hi sllug-ers. This post isn't a Linux-specific question...it's more of a > broad-based support recommendation question I could use some help with. For the Windows side of things, I'd recommend Consilium Network Solutions (1). I don't believe that they do much (if anything) on the Linux side. Tell Dan Stanford I said hello if you contact them. Thad (1) http://www.consiliumllc.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090225/716e3511/attachment.htm From matt at frozenatom.com Wed Feb 25 22:37:21 2009 From: matt at frozenatom.com (Matt Nelson) Date: Thu Feb 26 01:24:09 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: [sllug-members] Internet Storm Center daily audio podcasts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <148f6bb30902252137n75f89568hdac4fbd07e2c6129@mail.gmail.com> Thanks this is just what I was looking for. I have a podcast that I listen to every morning and still needed to fill the last 5-10 minutes with something. FWIW I listen to http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/. It is quite diverse in there topics. On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Nelson H. F. Beebe wrote: > The Internet Storm Center is now offering daily audio podcasts of > computer security issues of the last day. I listened to the current > one earlier today, and found it useful. You can find them here: > > http://isc.sans.org/podcast.html > > They take 5 to 10 minutes to play, and previous podcasts are available > as well. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 > - > - University of Utah FAX: +1 801 581 4148 > - > - Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: > beebe@math.utah.edu - > - 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe@acm.org > beebe@computer.org - > - Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: > http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ - > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090225/5eaa33e6/attachment.htm From lugs at projektenterprises.com Thu Feb 26 04:29:45 2009 From: lugs at projektenterprises.com (Shawn Thompson) Date: Thu Feb 26 03:55:21 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: OT/For-sale OpenMoko Neo FreeRunner Message-ID: <635e32ff0902260329w5b5e2ad0ib1f1ca603a8a5fb5@mail.gmail.com> I have a used OpenMoko Neo GTA02V5, 850(US) model, I would like to sell.* More info on the freerunner can be found at http://www.openmoko.com or http://wiki.openmoko.org Please note at this time I am only offering local sale, CASH ONLY. If you cannot pick-up in person please do not respond.** *Price I paid was just over $400 shipped, asking $250 Included: -FreeRunner with SHR distro installed on internal flash memory -512MB Micro-SD Card with adapter and case -Wall-Charger -Stylus E-mail me off list if you are interested. -Shawn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090226/be45f190/attachment.html From bmidgley at xmission.com Thu Feb 26 09:45:45 2009 From: bmidgley at xmission.com (Brad Midgley) Date: Thu Feb 26 09:11:13 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: user switching vs. dvd/cdrom Message-ID: <49A6C739.40507@xmission.com> Hey I've searched around on this one but have come up empty. Does anyone use user switching and have occasion to put a dvd (movie) disk in the machine? Every logged on user starts playing it AND the system randomly chooses one of those users (not the one with foreground control) to be the only one who can eject it. Frustrating. Ubuntu 8.04, gnome. USB-connected dvd drive. Brad From sjansen at buscaluz.org Thu Feb 26 09:54:31 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Thu Feb 26 09:20:15 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: user switching vs. dvd/cdrom In-Reply-To: <49A6C739.40507@xmission.com> References: <49A6C739.40507@xmission.com> Message-ID: <1235667271.3468.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 09:45 -0700, Brad Midgley wrote: > I've searched around on this one but have come up empty. > > Does anyone use user switching and have occasion to put a dvd (movie) > disk in the machine? Every logged on user starts playing it AND the > system randomly chooses one of those users (not the one with foreground > control) to be the only one who can eject it. Frustrating. > > Ubuntu 8.04, gnome. USB-connected dvd drive. I assume you're already checked the bug trackers? Sounds like a bug that should be reported upstream. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/ -- "XML is like violence: if it doesn't solve your problem, you aren't using enough of it." - Chris Maden From herlo1 at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 10:00:40 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Thu Feb 26 09:26:18 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: user switching vs. dvd/cdrom In-Reply-To: <1235667271.3468.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <49A6C739.40507@xmission.com> <1235667271.3468.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Stuart Jansen wrote: > On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 09:45 -0700, Brad Midgley wrote: >> I've searched around on this one but have come up empty. >> >> Does anyone use user switching and have occasion to put a dvd (movie) >> disk in the machine? Every logged on user starts playing it AND the >> system randomly chooses one of those users (not the one with foreground >> control) to be the only one who can eject it. Frustrating. >> >> Ubuntu 8.04, gnome. USB-connected dvd drive. > > I assume you're already checked the bug trackers? > > Sounds like a bug that should be reported upstream. > http://bugzilla.gnome.org/ > > -- > "XML is like violence: if it doesn't solve your problem, you aren't > using enough of it." - Chris Maden > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > This is *not* a bug 'necessarily', although I can see having multiple people have a movie playing can be a resource hog. It turns out, that it's a default setting and probably not very well thought out. Now, I use Fedora, so ymmv as far as the location of this dialog box, but if you go to System -> Preferences -> Personal -> File Management and choose the 'Media' tab. That should help. I also think this is part of nautilus' options so opening a nautilus window, choosing Edit -> Preferences and choose the Media tab that way. Cheers, Clint From namonai at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 10:08:17 2009 From: namonai at gmail.com (Craig Kelley) Date: Thu Feb 26 09:33:56 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Flash Problems In-Reply-To: <93288.41021.qm@web90401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200902251555.n1PFtvtd001822@sllug.org> <93288.41021.qm@web90401.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <847993120902260908y662d26a7j14164e56fb90d094@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Steve Hildebrand wrote: > At some > point, any new video just refuses to play the sound.? This is after an > upgrade from Flash 9, because the internets guaranteed me the problem with > Flash 9 was fixed in 10.? The internets lied to me. > > Any ideas? Try this, if you haven't already: apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree-extrasound And track this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/291371 -- http://inconnu.islug.org/~ink finger ink@inconnu.islug.org for PGP block From sjansen at buscaluz.org Thu Feb 26 10:38:36 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Thu Feb 26 10:04:13 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: user switching vs. dvd/cdrom In-Reply-To: References: <49A6C739.40507@xmission.com> <1235667271.3468.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1235669916.3468.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2009-02-26 at 10:00 -0700, Clint Savage wrote: > This is *not* a bug 'necessarily', although I can see having multiple > people have a movie playing can be a resource hog. It turns out, that > it's a default setting and probably not very well thought out. It is a feature with unintended consequences. That's the same thing as a bug. Imagine you are an evil scientist and purchase a big red button to "launch the missles". When you press it, your missiles are launched at your arch enemy as expected. However, because the designers of your button forgot to consider the implications of quantum entanglement, your arch enemy's missles are also launched at you. Sure, the button worked as claimed, but I'd still call it buggy. And if you survive the missile attack, I would suggest providing feedback to the creators of your button. -- "XML is like violence: if it doesn't solve your problem, you aren't using enough of it." - Chris Maden From stevehildebrand757 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 26 12:30:14 2009 From: stevehildebrand757 at yahoo.com (Steve Hildebrand) Date: Thu Feb 26 11:55:56 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Re: Flash Problems (Craig Kelley) References: <200902261634.n1QGYAmM015385@sllug.org> Message-ID: <658647.18340.qm@web90405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Excellent! I will try that tonight. I appreciate the tip. Strangely, I had an update flag last night, and wouldn't you know, it was the Flash 10 update. :) ________________________________ -Shawn On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Steve Hildebrand wrote: > At some > point, any new video just refuses to play the sound. This is after an > upgrade from Flash 9, because the internets guaranteed me the problem with > Flash 9 was fixed in 10. The internets lied to me. > > Any ideas? Try this, if you haven't already: apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree-extrasound And track this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/291371 -- http://inconnu.islug.org/~ink finger ink@inconnu.islug.org for PGP block ______________________________________________________________________ See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah sllug-members@sllug.org http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090226/08833fce/attachment.htm From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Thu Feb 26 13:01:18 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Thu Feb 26 12:27:07 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Re: Flash Problems (Craig Kelley) In-Reply-To: <658647.18340.qm@web90405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200902261634.n1QGYAmM015385@sllug.org> <658647.18340.qm@web90405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49A6F50E.7050203@ridgecrestherbals.com> OpenOffice has just started showing some strange behavior. I recently added some docbook and xml packages to start learning that. Now all the fonts in OOo have changed-- not just in the font lists, but in the documents created with default fonts, and also in the menus. It's like the standard OOo fonts have somehow become invisible (at least to OOo) and it is substituting, but really badly. Menu type uses a small serif font, menu boxes are misaligned, etc. Any suggestions? Steve Hildebrand wrote: > Excellent! I will try that tonight. I appreciate the tip. Strangely, > I had an update flag last night, and wouldn't you know, it was the Flash > 10 update. :) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ** > > -Shawn On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Steve Hildebrand > > wrote: > > At some > > point, any new video just refuses to play the sound. This is after an > > upgrade from Flash 9, because the internets guaranteed me the problem > with > > Flash 9 was fixed in 10. The internets lied to me. > > > > Any ideas? > > Try this, if you haven't already: > > apt-get install flashplugin-nonfree-extrasound > > And track this bug: > > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/291371 > > -- > http://inconnu.islug.org/~ink finger > ink@inconnu.islug.org for PGP block > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From rll123 at sbcglobal.net Thu Feb 26 13:14:14 2009 From: rll123 at sbcglobal.net (Robert Lewis) Date: Thu Feb 26 12:39:58 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE4.2 widgets at bottom of screen Message-ID: <49A6F816.4040007@sbcglobal.net> Anyone know on KDE 4.2, SUSE 11.2 how to move the widgits on the task bar at the bottom of the screen around? I had an issue where I logged off and logged back on and my desktop came up but the entire bar at the bottom wioth all the icons disappeared. Another reboot and they all came back but now the Kicker Gecko ICON along with all the rest that appeared on the left have moved to the right of middle. When I bring up thundebird/firefox and terminals they are appearing on the left of the taskbar. I want to move the Kicker/Start Applications and other ICONS that were on the left back to where they are but so far have not figured out how to do that. I new how to do it with KDE 3.5 but so far I have figured out how to do it on KDE 4.2. If know one here come up with an answer then I know one thing that will work. Logoff, from root rm .kde and .kde4. Log back in, they get rebuilt and reset to defaults. Cheers, Bob From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Thu Feb 26 13:24:24 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Thu Feb 26 12:50:06 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: Openoffice problem In-Reply-To: <49A6F50E.7050203@ridgecrestherbals.com> References: <200902261634.n1QGYAmM015385@sllug.org> <658647.18340.qm@web90405.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49A6F50E.7050203@ridgecrestherbals.com> Message-ID: <49A6FA78.2020509@ridgecrestherbals.com> Oops, not only top-posted but failed to change the subject line. Bad, bad, bad. Apologies to all. Matt Warnock wrote: > OpenOffice has just started showing some strange behavior. I recently > added some docbook and xml packages to start learning that. Now all the > fonts in OOo have changed-- not just in the font lists, but in the > documents created with default fonts, and also in the menus. It's like > the standard OOo fonts have somehow become invisible (at least to OOo) > and it is substituting, but really badly. Menu type uses a small serif > font, menu boxes are misaligned, etc. Any suggestions? -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From bob.l.lewis at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 13:38:46 2009 From: bob.l.lewis at gmail.com (Robert Lewis) Date: Thu Feb 26 13:04:28 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE4.2 widgets at bottom of screen In-Reply-To: <49A6F9EE.40005@flfn.org> References: <49A6F816.4040007@sbcglobal.net> <49A6F9EE.40005@flfn.org> Message-ID: <86d2b63e0902261238y6a0cdab8mdb233e3ce288dc07@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 12:22 PM, Brandon Stout wrote: > Robert Lewis wrote: > > Anyone know on KDE 4.2, SUSE 11.2 how to move the widgits on the task > > bar at the bottom of > > the screen around? > > > > I had an issue where I logged off and logged back on and my desktop came > > up but the > > entire bar at the bottom wioth all the icons disappeared. Another > > reboot and they all > > came back but now the Kicker Gecko ICON along with all the rest that > > appeared > > on the left have moved to the right of middle. When I bring up > > thundebird/firefox and > > terminals they are appearing on the left of the taskbar. > > > > I want to move the Kicker/Start Applications and other ICONS that were > > on the left > > back to where they are but so far have not figured out how to do that. > > > > I new how to do it with KDE 3.5 but so far I have figured out how to do > > it on KDE 4.2. > > > > If know one here come up with an answer then I know one thing that will > > work. > > Logoff, from root rm .kde and .kde4. Log back in, they get rebuilt > > and reset to defaults. > > > > Cheers, > > Bob > I assume you meant OpenSuse 11.1? You click the little controller on > the far right. Then a strange control bar appears over the panel, and > you can move the icons around. Why on earth they had to do it that way > is beyond me. Is ICON an acronym? I always thought it was just a word, > but you've got it all capitalized, so now I'm wondering why... > > Brandon > Yes 11.1. Wishful thinking or sloppy thinking take your pick ;-) It worked, thank you very much, I have into this area before but missed the technique. No idea about icon, I think it is an abbreiviation. Cheers, Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090226/69817993/attachment.html From csum77 at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 13:55:13 2009 From: csum77 at gmail.com (csum77@gmail.com) Date: Thu Feb 26 13:20:48 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: IT consultants? In-Reply-To: <38fc83270902251327j216f0854we312856fef82bc7e@mail.gmail.com> References: <38fc83270902251327j216f0854we312856fef82bc7e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for all of your helpful feedback! For those of you who made me aware of your services, I'll be in touch soon. Thanks all! -Charlie On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Thad Van Ry wrote: > On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 8:44 PM, csum77@gmail.com wrote: > >> Hi sllug-ers. This post isn't a Linux-specific question...it's more of a >> broad-based support recommendation question I could use some help with. > > > For the Windows side of things, I'd recommend Consilium Network Solutions > (1). I don't believe that they do much (if anything) on the Linux side. Tell > Dan Stanford I said hello if you contact them. > > Thad > > (1) http://www.consiliumllc.com/ > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090226/3f0aa6f9/attachment.htm From mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com Thu Feb 26 14:02:41 2009 From: mwarnock at ridgecrestherbals.com (Matt Warnock) Date: Thu Feb 26 13:28:22 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE4.2 widgets at bottom of screen In-Reply-To: <86d2b63e0902261238y6a0cdab8mdb233e3ce288dc07@mail.gmail.com> References: <49A6F816.4040007@sbcglobal.net> <49A6F9EE.40005@flfn.org> <86d2b63e0902261238y6a0cdab8mdb233e3ce288dc07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49A70371.3070200@ridgecrestherbals.com> Robert Lewis wrote: > No idea about icon, I think it is an abbreiviation. Icon is a word, originally referring to the religious art that commonly adorn e.g. greek orthodox chapels. So to be really correct, you should probably genuflect before making the incantation he recommended. -- Matt Warnock, President RidgeCrest Herbals, Inc. From herlo1 at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 13:04:09 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Fri Feb 27 12:29:44 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: One Laptop Per Child (OLPC) developer program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, The Utah Open Source Foundation has been working with the Fedora Ambassadors and the XO/OLPC folks to promote a new project. ?Due to some recent changes in their structure, they're looking for more developers and packagers for this project. If you are a python developer, interested in helping children learn on a cool bit of hardware that is very hard to break, have time to code between now and August and are willing to commit to working on the xo project for 1 year, the Fedora Project will provide you with a free XO laptop to keep. This project is fourth grade math curriculum for the XO/OLPC. ?The idea being that once the major bits of this curriculum are developed, creating other versions will be much simpler. The only requirement is that you give monthly updates on your progress to the Fedora Ambassadors. ?It should also be obvious that you will be working with others to get requirements completed and development in for testing and released to packagers. If you are interested, I can provide you a laptop within 1-2 weeks as well as help you get a developers key and get started right away. ?For more information visit these links: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs <-- Contact info for Sugar Labs folks http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam <-- info about development http://sugarlabs.org/go/User:Gdk/4th_Grade_Maths <-- info about the modules being developed http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/fourthgrademath <-- a new list for those developers joining up to help The point of this email is to interest you folks who would love to develop something useful in the world. ?To change the way kids learn and grow and show the way open source software can provide this change. ?If you are seriously interested in participating in this project and have a few hours a week to give to it, please contact me off list. Cheers, Clint From justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 15:01:01 2009 From: justinbrinkerhoff at gmail.com (Justin Brinkerhoff) Date: Fri Feb 27 14:26:43 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: One Laptop Per Child (OLPC) developer program In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2f932a4a0902271401k73b31ff0j743a59e440477055@mail.gmail.com> Are they only in need of Python developers? Do they need any C, C++, Java, etc... ? On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 1:04 PM, Clint Savage wrote: > Hi all, > > The Utah Open Source Foundation has been working with the Fedora > Ambassadors and the XO/OLPC folks to promote a new project. ?Due to > some recent changes in their structure, they're looking for more > developers and packagers for this project. > > If you are a python developer, interested in helping children learn on > a cool bit of hardware that is very hard to break, have time to code > between now and August and are willing to commit to working on the xo > project for 1 year, the Fedora Project will provide you with a free XO > laptop to keep. > > This project is fourth grade math curriculum for the XO/OLPC. ?The > idea being that once the major bits of this curriculum are developed, > creating other versions will be much simpler. > > The only requirement is that you give monthly updates on your progress > to the Fedora Ambassadors. ?It should also be obvious that you will be > working with others to get requirements completed and development in > for testing and released to packagers. > > If you are interested, I can provide you a laptop within 1-2 weeks as > well as help you get a developers key and get started right away. ?For > more information visit these links: > > http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs <-- Contact info for Sugar Labs folks > http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam <-- info about development > http://sugarlabs.org/go/User:Gdk/4th_Grade_Maths <-- info about the > modules being developed > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/fourthgrademath <-- a new list for > those developers joining up to help > > The point of this email is to interest you folks who would love to > develop something useful in the world. ?To change the way kids learn > and grow and show the way open source software can provide this > change. ?If you are seriously interested in participating in this > project and have a few hours a week to give to it, please contact me > off list. > > Cheers, > > Clint > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From herlo1 at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 15:36:07 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Fri Feb 27 15:01:48 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: One Laptop Per Child (OLPC) developer program In-Reply-To: <2f932a4a0902271401k73b31ff0j743a59e440477055@mail.gmail.com> References: <2f932a4a0902271401k73b31ff0j743a59e440477055@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Justin Brinkerhoff wrote: > Are they only in need of Python developers? Do they need any C, C++, > Java, etc... ? > Justin, Specifically, they are after python developers. The activities they are trying to create in the sugar desktop are all python. The core of the XO is built on Fedora 7 (soon to be Fedora 11) thus if you are interested in helping the project indirectly, you could help the Fedora Project with Java, C, C++, etc. Also, Fedora 10 has the 'sugar-desktop' as another desktop you can use if you like. Just run the following and you can develop on your own laptop for the sugar activities. yum groupinstall sugar-desktop Hope that helps clear things up. Cheers, Clint From rll123 at sbcglobal.net Fri Feb 27 21:06:43 2009 From: rll123 at sbcglobal.net (Robert Lewis) Date: Fri Feb 27 20:45:08 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: netflix and Linux Message-ID: <49A8B853.1020604@sbcglobal.net> Netflix has completely ignored Linux in their streaming to laptop offering. They support Mac and MS. It works fine under Firefox on MS. I don't see the big deal in getting it to work under Linux and I have written them asking to talk with their engineering manager about it. I don't have a high expectation of anyone getting back to me. If your so motivated please see what you can do to add to my noise level about this. Cheers, Bob From kd7nyq at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 21:23:45 2009 From: kd7nyq at gmail.com (Andrew Jackman) Date: Fri Feb 27 20:49:21 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: netflix and Linux In-Reply-To: <49A8B853.1020604@sbcglobal.net> References: <49A8B853.1020604@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <79c119390902272023q2797f9e0sbe0a169c88a26ce1@mail.gmail.com> Done. :) On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Robert Lewis wrote: > Netflix has completely ignored Linux in their streaming to laptop offering. > They support Mac and MS. ?It works fine under Firefox on MS. > > I don't see the big deal in getting it to work under Linux and I have > written > them asking to talk with their engineering manager about it. ?I don't have > a high expectation of anyone getting back to me. > > If your so motivated please see what you can do to add to my noise level > about this. > > Cheers, > Bob > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From u235sentinel at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 21:27:45 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Fri Feb 27 20:53:32 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: netflix and Linux In-Reply-To: <79c119390902272023q2797f9e0sbe0a169c88a26ce1@mail.gmail.com> References: <49A8B853.1020604@sbcglobal.net> <79c119390902272023q2797f9e0sbe0a169c88a26ce1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49A8BD41.9040605@gmail.com> Andrew Jackman wrote: > Done. :) > > On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Robert Lewis wrote: > >> Netflix has completely ignored Linux in their streaming to laptop offering. >> They support Mac and MS. It works fine under Firefox on MS. >> >> I don't see the big deal in getting it to work under Linux and I have >> written >> them asking to talk with their engineering manager about it. I don't have >> a high expectation of anyone getting back to me. >> >> If your so motivated please see what you can do to add to my noise level >> about this. >> >> Cheers, >> Bob Is it getting noisy around here or is it just me :-) From kd7nyq at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 21:36:35 2009 From: kd7nyq at gmail.com (Andrew Jackman) Date: Fri Feb 27 21:02:11 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: netflix and Linux In-Reply-To: <49A8BD41.9040605@gmail.com> References: <49A8B853.1020604@sbcglobal.net> <79c119390902272023q2797f9e0sbe0a169c88a26ce1@mail.gmail.com> <49A8BD41.9040605@gmail.com> Message-ID: <79c119390902272036v1383901bqf21b7ac0fda789a4@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone have a working email address for netflix customer service? On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 9:27 PM, u235sentinel wrote: > Andrew Jackman wrote: >> >> Done. :) >> >> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Robert Lewis >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Netflix has completely ignored Linux in their streaming to laptop >>> offering. >>> They support Mac and MS. ?It works fine under Firefox on MS. >>> >>> I don't see the big deal in getting it to work under Linux and I have >>> written >>> them asking to talk with their engineering manager about it. ?I don't >>> have >>> a high expectation of anyone getting back to me. >>> >>> If your so motivated please see what you can do to add to my noise level >>> about this. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Bob > > Is it getting noisy around here or is it just me :-) > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.net channel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > From kwalker at kobran.org Fri Feb 27 21:58:18 2009 From: kwalker at kobran.org (Knight Walker) Date: Fri Feb 27 21:35:21 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: netflix and Linux Message-ID: <1235797098.18992.2.camel@Nokia-N810-36-5> > Is it getting noisy around here or is it just me :-) heh Actually I don't mind that much. As long as it's at least related to the list topic, which i think this is. It's better than getting a 'is this list still alive?' Messages. As it is, it cheeses me off that I can't watch my Netflix queue online just because I use Linux. I've even considered using ... Other methods to watch, but all the instructions I've found are way too much work for something I may just want to watch once. -KW From dhales2 at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 08:24:35 2009 From: dhales2 at gmail.com (Dan Hales) Date: Sat Feb 28 07:50:10 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: netflix and Linux In-Reply-To: <49A8B853.1020604@sbcglobal.net> References: <49A8B853.1020604@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: I completely agree! What would be even nicer is if one could stream video through MythTV.... That would be really nice!!!!!!! Dan H. x6769 On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Robert Lewis wrote: > Netflix has completely ignored Linux in their streaming to laptop offering. > They support Mac and MS. It works fine under Firefox on MS. > > I don't see the big deal in getting it to work under Linux and I have > written > them asking to talk with their engineering manager about it. I don't have > a high expectation of anyone getting back to me. > > If your so motivated please see what you can do to add to my noise level > about this. > > Cheers, > Bob > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.netchannel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090228/74cbef53/attachment-0001.htm From u235sentinel at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 08:35:31 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Sat Feb 28 08:01:17 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: netflix and Linux In-Reply-To: <1235797098.18992.2.camel@Nokia-N810-36-5> References: <1235797098.18992.2.camel@Nokia-N810-36-5> Message-ID: <49A959C3.2080004@gmail.com> Knight Walker wrote: >> Is it getting noisy around here or is it just me :-) >> > > heh Actually I don't mind that much. As long as it's at least related to the list topic, which i think this is. It's better than getting a 'is this list still alive?' Messages. > > As it is, it cheeses me off that I can't watch my Netflix queue online just because I use Linux. I've even considered using ... Other methods to watch, but all the instructions I've found are way too much work for something I may just want to watch once. > > Actually I was referring to the comment "make some noise" to netflix :-) I've sent them a note letting them know I'm 100% linux at home now. Even my video editing now is using kdenlive (it's a pretty decent NLE). So bye bye Windows :-) From u235sentinel at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 08:39:55 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Sat Feb 28 08:05:41 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: netflix and Linux In-Reply-To: <79c119390902272036v1383901bqf21b7ac0fda789a4@mail.gmail.com> References: <49A8B853.1020604@sbcglobal.net> <79c119390902272023q2797f9e0sbe0a169c88a26ce1@mail.gmail.com> <49A8BD41.9040605@gmail.com> <79c119390902272036v1383901bqf21b7ac0fda789a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49A95ACB.6000606@gmail.com> Andrew Jackman wrote: > Does anyone have a working email address for netflix customer service? > > > I wasn't sure myself. I clicked on "Contact Us" and had to dig around. I found an online email page which I was hoping would be sufficient http://www.netflix.com/ContactAlliances?lnkctr=cu_alliance Hope that helps I'd hate to use WINE to run their stuff but I've been pretty successful with other Windows applications. I have a pretty good list of stuff that runs just great under Wine 1.0.0 including several FPS games like Counterstrike Source. I don't buy Windows games/programs anymore unless they are at least Gold or Platinum level. From u235sentinel at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 08:54:52 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Sat Feb 28 08:20:38 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: netflix and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <49A8B853.1020604@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <49A95E4C.5000902@gmail.com> Dan Hales wrote: > I completely agree! > What would be even nicer is if one could stream video through > MythTV.... That would be really nice!!!!!!! > > Dan H. > x6769 You mean sending a stream or receiving a stream? There are a few features for Myth that allow you to. Maybe MythWeb to stream is what you are looking for. There are a number of other's you might be interested in. From MythFlix to MythFlash. I'm thinking one of those might be what you are looking for http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Category:Plugins Or perhaps MythStream? http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Unofficial_Plugins Personally I'm having fun with MythRecipe. I'm setting up a computer in our kitchen running the mythfrontend and putting our recipies into the mysql database. I've also recorded a bunch of foodtv network videos. My wife thinks I'm a geek and I don't think this is going to help with that opinion ;-) BTW, I told her geeks don't listen to Likin Park so I'm ok :D From sjansen at buscaluz.org Sat Feb 28 09:06:21 2009 From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen) Date: Sat Feb 28 08:31:57 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: kdenlive (was netflix and Linux) In-Reply-To: <49A959C3.2080004@gmail.com> References: <1235797098.18992.2.camel@Nokia-N810-36-5> <49A959C3.2080004@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1235837181.3778.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2009-02-28 at 08:35 -0700, u235sentinel wrote: > Even my video editing now is using kdenlive (it's a pretty decent NLE). Really? What distro are you using? What type of editing do you do? When I tried kdenlive it was so crash happy it was unusable. -- "XML is like violence: if it doesn't solve your problem, you aren't using enough of it." - Chris Maden From u235sentinel at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 09:51:15 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Sat Feb 28 09:17:01 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: kdenlive (was netflix and Linux) In-Reply-To: <1235837181.3778.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1235797098.18992.2.camel@Nokia-N810-36-5> <49A959C3.2080004@gmail.com> <1235837181.3778.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49A96B83.4090509@gmail.com> Stuart Jansen wrote: > On Sat, 2009-02-28 at 08:35 -0700, u235sentinel wrote: > >> Even my video editing now is using kdenlive (it's a pretty decent NLE). >> > > Really? What distro are you using? What type of editing do you do? > > When I tried kdenlive it was so crash happy it was unusable. > > I'm running it under Ubuntu 8.04. The system has 4 gigs ram and a Nvidia 9800GTX. So far the only time I had it crash once and that was when I was editing "The Dark Knight". I ripped it from DVD and was cleaning it up for my kids. They really want to see it :D Since then I haven't had any problems (knock on wood). From dhales2 at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 10:17:07 2009 From: dhales2 at gmail.com (Dan Hales) Date: Sat Feb 28 09:42:42 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: kdenlive (was netflix and Linux) In-Reply-To: <49A96B83.4090509@gmail.com> References: <1235797098.18992.2.camel@Nokia-N810-36-5> <49A959C3.2080004@gmail.com> <1235837181.3778.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <49A96B83.4090509@gmail.com> Message-ID: Did you have to rip the DVD first or is kdenlive able to load an edit the movie direct from the DVD... (What Ripper did you use?) Thanks Dan H. On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 9:51 AM, u235sentinel wrote: > Stuart Jansen wrote: > >> On Sat, 2009-02-28 at 08:35 -0700, u235sentinel wrote: >> >> >>> Even my video editing now is using kdenlive (it's a pretty decent NLE). >>> >>> >> >> Really? What distro are you using? What type of editing do you do? >> >> When I tried kdenlive it was so crash happy it was unusable. >> >> >> > I'm running it under Ubuntu 8.04. The system has 4 gigs ram and a Nvidia > 9800GTX. So far the only time I had it crash once and that was when I was > editing "The Dark Knight". I ripped it from DVD and was cleaning it up for > my kids. They really want to see it :D > > Since then I haven't had any problems (knock on wood). > > ______________________________________________________________________ > See http://www.sllug.org/ for latest SLLUG news, information, links. > Join SLLUG and other UT LUG members on irc.FreeNode.netchannel #Utah > sllug-members@sllug.org > http://www.sllug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sllug-members > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://sllug.org/pipermail/sllug-members/attachments/20090228/1a6c3a0f/attachment.html From u235sentinel at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 10:26:25 2009 From: u235sentinel at gmail.com (u235sentinel) Date: Sat Feb 28 09:52:12 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: kdenlive (was netflix and Linux) In-Reply-To: References: <1235797098.18992.2.camel@Nokia-N810-36-5> <49A959C3.2080004@gmail.com> <1235837181.3778.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <49A96B83.4090509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49A973C1.9040703@gmail.com> Dan Hales wrote: > Did you have to rip the DVD first or is kdenlive able to load an edit > the movie direct from the DVD... (What Ripper did you use?) > > Thanks > Dan H. > I use DVD::RIP (it's a perl tk app) to copy the vob and transcode it to an mpeg or avi. Once that's done I use to use Vegas Video for Windows to edit it. Since then I've been using kdenlive (version 0.6.0-svn) to edit the movie. The movies are stored on my mythtv system. I do this mainly to have a nice collection of movies we can all watch AND the best part is the kids haven't touched a DVD in over 6 years now. I started doing this after they scratched "Return of the King" with a scrub brush or something. It's was simply unplayable and unrepairable. So now all my DVD's are safely stored and archived. I'm looking at replacing my current box with another one. This new system will have about 4 Terabytes disk space when I'm done. I like to plan for long term use :-) From bmidgley at xmission.com Sat Feb 28 13:53:49 2009 From: bmidgley at xmission.com (Brad Midgley) Date: Sat Feb 28 13:19:17 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: user switching vs. dvd/cdrom In-Reply-To: References: <49A6C739.40507@xmission.com> <1235667271.3468.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49A9A45D.6010109@xmission.com> Clint > I also think this is part of nautilus' options so opening a nautilus > window, choosing Edit -> Preferences and choose the Media tab that > way. this was it. Ideally nautilus needs to detect when it is running under a user that is "switched out". I'll make a note in the gnome bugzilla and for now I've disabled app launching in the media tab. Brad From bms at mscis.org Sat Feb 28 22:33:37 2009 From: bms at mscis.org (Brandon Stout) Date: Sat Feb 28 22:00:34 2009 Subject: [sllug-members]: KDE 4.2 Desktop and Taskbar Message-ID: <49AA1E31.9070402@mscis.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Now I'm going to add to the complaints about KDE 4.x. First, in KDE 3 I like to make the taskbar a little wider because once you get to a certain width (around 40 px?), the application buttons double up, so you can have them stacked two high. In KDE 4.x the buttons just gets bigger. I prefer the old behavior far more, but I don't see a way to make it work that way. At least the system tray doubles up like I expect it to. I'm guessing there's no way to make the taskbar behave the way KDE 3's did? Second, in every desktop for every other desktop environment out there, you can save stuff to your desktop, and it shows up on the desktop. That's the whole point of saving something to the desktop. Unfortunately, KDE 4 doesn't automatically put new files on the desktop when you save them there, thus nullifying the whole point of saving things there. Is there a way to make the desktop behave like everyone in the world, except the KDE developers, expect it to behave? Other than that, I'd give high praise to the KDE devs for a great new desktop. I honestly think it's come along quite nicely, though it should have been in beta much longer. ~wake Thomas, DexterTheDragon, and other KDE fans. Brandon -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmqHjEACgkQx0pgn74qrcJQXACgjOKSHFG09jXMWM66PSq6o1Xc uesAniOcStcnlafRUVId+CzgitCeynjA =H2B3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----