[sllug-members]:Comcast_Is_Starting_The_Tiered_Internet_Whether_We_Like_It_or_Not

[u235sentinel]

Jared A Barneck wrote:
> For those of you that believe Utopia is going to save you, it just isn't.
> 
> Also, the difference between Comcast and Qwest is that Comcast is your 
> internet through Cable connection provided by Comcast and Comcast is 
> your ISP.

{snip}

Keep the ISP idea in mind for the following :-)

> With Utopia, how do you think it is going to work?  Somehow a physical 
> line is going to have to be run to your house, and someone has to be 
> paid to let you use the available bandwidth.
> 
> The problems won't change.  Utopia users will be singled out because one 
> is using too much, just the same as they are with any company smart 
> enough to know how to monitor their bandwidth.

Uhh... Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm told Utopia doesn't provide you 
with ANY services.  That being the case, Utopia isn't the problem, it's 
your service provider over Utopia's Infrastructure.  Like public roads, 
you can pick any of a dozen pizza shops or whatever.  If one spits in 
the sauce, you can choose to do business with another rather than "just 
deal with it".  From what I've seen, most Utopia providers have clear 
acceptable use statements unlike the other mentioned ISP ;-)

> If you think the costs will be better with Utopia, you are wrong.  Even 
> if it appears cheaper, your city will cover the costs of their financial 
> assitance by raising costs to you in other ways.

Can you elaborate here?  Any references or is this opinion?  So far this 
hasn't been the case in many Utopia cities and some cities are joining 
as non pledging members, hence no costs are covered by the city 
(Farmington is looking to join, Vineyard, Cottonwood Heights and so on). 
   They can do this because of the latest Federal grant Utopia received 
to build in those area's and more!  Non pledging cities are built 
differently however.  They don't get priority nor all the city built 
out.  The rules are different I admit.

If you are citing iProvo (as many love to do), in my opinion, they are 
the classic example of what not to do.  Subleasing Utopia lines, main 
providing company goes bankrupt, pouring another cool million in and so 
on.  They should have scrapped the project and simply joined Utopia. 
Provo screwed up big time.

Cities that are really shining are Midvale, Murray and West Valley. 
I've spoken with several of their city councel and they love it.  I'm 
told their Mayors are very pleased with how well the project is working 
out.  I hope to speak with them too soon enough.

Oh and so far, they haven't needed to cover costs of their assistance 
(the bonds voted in) by raising rates elsewhere. I'm told they are all 
in the black cept for Provo.  I'm curious where you heard this from?

You should check out freeutopia.org.  Jesse did an awesome powerpoint 
presentation (works great in OpenOffice btw).  This guy did his 
homework.  I think you will be impressed.  I can find the link if 
interested.

> In the end, you have to pay to be online and someone bean counter will 
> be monitoring your bandwidth to save costs.
> How does Utopia connect to the internet?  Could it be that they will 
> just put there routers in a room with the Telco's routers?  Like they 
> will be a CLEC?  So you will still just being going through your fast 
> new Utopia fiber to the same old internet connection you had before.  
> And when you realize this, some one will ask: "Did you really believe it 
> will get better with another ISP with another name?"

Utopia is not an ISP.

> Don't get me wrong, it will get better with Utopia.  But not because 
> Utopia is so amazing.  It will get better simply because by the time 
> Utopia is around, the internet will have self improved. 

I'm sorry but I'm not seeing any of this.  Why do you believe this when 
we think 1.5/6/8/12 Meg pipes are amazing?  We're so behind it's not 
funny anymore and other countries have been laughing at American's for 
some time.

Here is one of several articles I posted on my blog (on 8/15) comparing 
our speeds to other countries.  We look pretty sad in comparison.  I 
don't believe the Internet will "self Improve" without citizens pushing 
to make it happen.  Copper can only go so far!

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070529-survey-average-broadband-speed-in-us-is-1-9mbps.html


  Then Utopia
> will be a fourth way to get physical connection to the internet and that 
> will help create a healthy competition, instead of a monopoly, which 
> doesn't really exist cause we already have three ways to get internet 
> anyway.
> 
> 1. Cable (comcast)
> 2. Phone (Qwest DSL)
> 3. Wireless (Digis)
> 4. Utopia (Fiber cable)

1, 2 and 3 could join Utopia if they wished :-)

FYI... I'm not trying to be defensive.  I do however disagree with 
several statements and am curious.  I would like to learn more.  It's 
VERY possible I'm am wrong on every count.  It's happened before :-)

Thanks!

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